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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64838
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Ummm... read the posts above yours... oh, welcome to Nomad!
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boe4fun
Super Nomad
Posts: 1040
Registered: 1-22-2006
Location: Margaritaville
Member Is Offline
Mood: Circling the drain........
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I copied this off of the Vagabundos forum:
HOLA, I'M BRINGING IN AN OLD SUBJECT WITH A PROBLEM HERE WITH MY NEIGHBOR IN LOS BARRILES GMC DIESEL PICKUP. HE BOUGHT HIS NEW DIESEL TRUCK LAST YEAR
AND DROVE IT DOWN TO LOS BARRILES AND BACK TO THE STATES WITH NO APPARENT PROBLEMS. THIS YEAR HE DROVE IT DOWN AND WHEN HE WAS READY TO LEAVE FOR THE
STATES, HE ENCOUNTERED A MAJOR PROBLEM. ONE OF THE SENSORS STATED HE HAD HIGH SULFER CONTENT AND THE TRUCK WOULDN'T RUN CORRECTLY. WHEN HE HAD IT
TRUCKED TO THE LA PAZ GMC DEALER, THEY REFUSED TO SERVICE IT. HE WENT TO LA PAZ AND FOUND THAT THE TRUCKING/TOWING SERVICE HAD PARKED IT IN A
JUNKYARD.
HE ARRANGED FOR A TRANSPORTATION COMPANY TO PUT HIS TRUCK IN AN ENCLOSED BIG RIG AND IS SHIPPING IT BACK TO THE STATES FOR $ 1,800.00 AND WILL DEAL
WITH IT WHEN HE AND THE TRUCK GET TO THE GMC DEALER IN THE STATES. I DON'T KNOW THE COST OF SHIPPING IT TO LA PAZ FROM LOS BARRILES.
THE MILEAGE HE PUT ON THE TRUCK IN MEXICO WAS ABOUT 3,300 MILES BUT WHEN HE CROSSED THE BORDER INTO MEXICO, HE DID HAVE ULSD SO I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY
MILES HE WENT BEFORE FILLING UP AGAIN WITH THE HIGH SULFER DIESEL.
I HAVE HEARD THAT FORD HAS AN ADDITIVE AND I HAVE ALSO HEARD THAT THERE WERE SOME PROBLEMS WITH THE NEW DODGE DIESELS AS WELL.
I SPOKE WITH A TECH PERSON TODAY AND HE SAID THAT ON THE LITERATURE, IT IS STATED THAT YOU MAY NOT USE HIGH SULFER DIESEL AND IF YOU DO, IT WILL
NULLIFY THE WARRANTY.
IF YOU OWN A NEWER DIESEL, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU READ YOUR VEHICLE LITERATURE TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE BEFORE DRIVING IT DOWN.
I DO NOT OWN A DIESEL TRUCK AND AM JUST PASSING VALIDATED, FIRST HAND INFORMATION.
BIEN SALUD, JAMES H
Two dirt roads diverged in Baja and I, I took the one less graveled by......
Soy ignorante, apático y ambivalente. No lo sé y no me importa, ni modo.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64838
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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There is no 'High Sulfur' diesel in Mexico... not for quite some time.
================================================================
This is from the owner of a Pemex station who is also a Nomad, from 2007:
================================================================
posted on 6-27-2007 at 11:37 PM
Diesel Bajo Azufre...
My friends,
For several months now, Pemex Refinacion (that is the part of Pemex that produces fuel) has been producing Low Sulfur Diesel, known in Mexico as
"Pemex Diesel Bajo Azufre".
This type of Diesel has been distributed all around Mexico for more than 8 months now, slowly replacing the old one (When received, it gets mixed with
the old one, so it takes a while to reach it's optimal low sulfur quality).
Pemex also sent mobile laboratories throughout Baja to check on the new Diesel quality at the beginning of this year... they arrived at BajaCactus in
february 2007... they checked our Diesel and told us it was already 98% Low Sulfur, back then, and according to them, at our Gas Station, it should
not have taken more than a couple of weeks to achieve it's optimal levels.
At this point it is supposed to be all around Mexico.
On a related note, also Premium fuel has also been upgraded to a Ultra Low Sulfur version, known as "Premium UBA" (Ultra Bajo Azufre).
Regarding the quantity of sulfur in each fuel, I do not know... but if you guys really need/want to know, I would be happy to try and find out for
you.
In the near future, you may begin to see the change in the Gas Stations signs of the new fuel... it just takes a while since those are expensive and
the owner of the Gas Station has to pay for them out of their profits.
Hope this info helps my friends.
BajaCactus
"Where the Baja is so much more than a dream..."
[Edited on 11-21-2009 by David K]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18368
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
There is no 'High Sulfur' diesel in Mexico... not for quite some time.
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actually, that may be incorrect.
several years ago pemex began selling low sulfur diesel in the border region, but the schedule for nationwide rollout was to complete it by fall 2009.
i suspect that like many efforts there has been some schedule slip...
perhaps diesel in border region is low sulfur, but diesel in other regions may still be high sulfur.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64838
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Don't take my word for it... I am refering to the Pemex expert on Nomad... The low sulfer diesel is 'supplied' near the border THEN transported to the
entire state of Baja California by tanker trucks. The fuel depot near Ensenada supplies all of Hwy. 1 Pemex stations south of there in the state...
and they only have one kind of diesel... LOW SULFUR. Pemex is the wholesale supplier... Pemex franchises are the retail vendor.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18368
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Don't take my word for it... I am refering to the Pemex expert on Nomad... The low sulfer diesel is 'supplied' near the border THEN transported to the
entire state of Baja California by tanker trucks. The fuel depot near Ensenada supplies all of Hwy. 1 Pemex stations south of there in the state...
and they only have one kind of diesel... LOW SULFUR. Pemex is the wholesale supplier... Pemex franchises are the retail vendor.
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dk:
ulsd is available reliably only in the border region where trucks that cross border are required to run ulsd. many places in mexico, including baja
sur, do not retail ulsd.
while ulsd may be available as far south as el rosario, it is not normally imported and sold in baja sur.
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gatopelon
Newbie
Posts: 9
Registered: 11-21-2009
Location: Alvarado Ca
Member Is Offline
Mood: lovin retirement!!
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Anybody got info on the availability of low sulfur diesel on the mainland?
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Oggie
Nomad
Posts: 312
Registered: 6-16-2009
Location: Carlsbad, CA/BOLA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Missing Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Don't take my word for it... I am refering to the Pemex expert on Nomad... The low sulfer diesel is 'supplied' near the border THEN transported to the
entire state of Baja California by tanker trucks. The fuel depot near Ensenada supplies all of Hwy. 1 Pemex stations south of there in the state...
and they only have one kind of diesel... LOW SULFUR. Pemex is the wholesale supplier... Pemex franchises are the retail vendor.
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Maybe there is some confusion on the types of low sulfur diesel. The allowable sulfur content for ULSD (15 ppm) is much lower than the previous U.S.
on-highway standard for low sulfur diesel (LSD, 500 ppm). I think that low sulfur diesel is available thru-out Baja, but the Ultra low sulfur diesel
is only available near the border. Most of the newer diesel trucks(2007 & Newer) require the Ultra Low Sulfur diesel.
A man never stands as tall as when he kneels to help a child.
Knights of Pythagoras
Funny how falling feels like flying
for a little while - Bad Blake
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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I agree completely with Oggie. There is low sulphur and there is ultra low sulphur. I think all of Mexico has, at least, low sulphur. Some ports may
still be dispensing good old high sulphur diesel.
I run diesel over here in Sonora in a boat and a truck and it ACTS like it is still not ULSD. It runs quieter than when I used to run the ULSD in the
States and it smokes a bit more. I can determine no difference between the street pump diesel and the diesel I buy at the floating dock in San Carlos.
But this is definitely not a commercial port.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64838
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Oggie, Hook and other Diesel Nomads
| Quote: | Originally posted by Oggie
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Don't take my word for it... I am refering to the Pemex expert on Nomad... The low sulfer diesel is 'supplied' near the border THEN transported to the
entire state of Baja California by tanker trucks. The fuel depot near Ensenada supplies all of Hwy. 1 Pemex stations south of there in the state...
and they only have one kind of diesel... LOW SULFUR. Pemex is the wholesale supplier... Pemex franchises are the retail vendor.
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Maybe there is some confusion on the types of low sulfur diesel. The allowable sulfur content for ULSD (15 ppm) is much lower than the previous U.S.
on-highway standard for low sulfur diesel (LSD, 500 ppm). I think that low sulfur diesel is available thru-out Baja, but the Ultra low sulfur diesel
is only available near the border. Most of the newer diesel trucks(2007 & Newer) require the Ultra Low Sulfur diesel. |
FROM JUNE 2007:
posted on 6-27-2007 at 11:15 PM
Sulfur Content...
Ok Guys, here you go... the memo (resumed and translated, if you want to read the full note, in spanish, go to: http://www.apartados.hacienda.gob.mx/novedades/espanol/docs/...):
On January 30th, 2006, the Secretary for the Environment and Natural Resources (Semarnat), published in the Federal Official Diary, the
"Specifications for fossil fuels for the protection of the environment", in which are stated the new requirements Pemex will have to comply with, in
order to produce and commercialized the fuels and diesel that are sell throughout our country.
The new Premium Ultra Low Sulfur, should have an average of 30 millions per part of sulfur (30 ppm), while the new Pemex Diesel Ultra Low Sulfur will
have a maximum of 15 ppm.
These new norms and specifications, are the result of a revision process that started in May of 2002, and in which the private, public and academic
sectors participated.
It must be noted that Pemex began to delivered the Premium fuel with the required specifications on October 2006. The quality required should be
gradually met, due to the actual existence of fuel in the Gas Station's tanks, with a high content of Sulfur.
Regarding Diesel Ultra Low Sulfur (Diesel UBA), it's introduction began on October 2006, in Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua. In January 2007 in will be
extensive throughout the Northern part of Mexico and then to the rest of the country.
We should be reminded that in Mexico we only have two kinds of Diesel... Regular diesel and Marine diesel... that is it... while in the States the are
several ones, each with different quality and quantities of sulfur.
BajaCactus
"Where the Baja is so much more than a dream..."
[Edited on 6-28-2007 by BajaCactus]
Did you guys see it: "Pemex Diesel Ultra Low Sulfur will have a maximum of 15 ppm." once all the stations hve been refilled with the new formula...
that was 2 1/2 years ago... and Mexico uses a lot of diesel... I think they have had enough time to have been converted???
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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9010
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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Yeah, and there was plenty of time to finish the Escalera Nautica.
I still dont think it's ULSD down here, judging by my tailpipe.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64838
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Read where Antonio mentions Marine Diesel being the only other diesel produced (since 2007) in Mexico... So you either have Ultra Low 15 ppm or Marine
diesel, unless your tank has 2-3 year old fuel?
Heck, who knows for sure... Maybe take a sample to a lab and see?
I just wanted any Nomads who were not going to Baja because of the fuel to eliminate that excuse!
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DeMinimis
Nomad
Posts: 271
Registered: 1-7-2008
Location: Orygun
Member Is Offline
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Oggie, you beat me to it: ultra low vs. low sulfur.
I don't know if any factory service wrenchers are on here or not, but I'd recommend when it comes to your $40/50+K rig, you don't get your diesel
mechanical knowledge from a bunch of people with shrimp tacos on the brain (me included). Digesting anecdotal tales is not good research. Ask your
service rep or check the plethora of model-specific boards out there for some good accurate advice (although there is little agreement out there as
well).
Now, what would be very helpful, in my opinion, is a first-hand report of which Pemex stations specifically are carrying ultra low sulfur diesel (at
least selling diesel posted as such). This issue is weighing heavy on my little brain as I'm looking at selling my '03 Sportsmobile 7.3PSD and
replacing it with a '07/newer diesel pickup. Trying to determine just how many yellow Jerry Cans I need to order for our next trip.
Lifted from RVonline and Dated Oct, 2009:
"
As of the time of writing of this article Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) is available only in the following locations in Mexico:
* The entire state of Baja California. Its sister state Baja California Sur does not have ULSD.
* According to the station owner (Señor Meza) the Pemex station in the town of El Rosario (160 miles south of Ensenada) is the last chance to
purchase ULSD on Mex 1 when headed south in Baja California.
* A narrow strip adjacent to the United States that varies in depth from ten miles to thirty miles depending on whether or not north-south highway
arteries are present.
* Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel is available in certain limited areas of Mexico solely because its use is mandatory in diesel transport trucks that
cross the border into the United States.
* Because of the worldwide economic slump plans to modify Pemex refineries have been frozen. There is a shortage of ULSD fuel in the USA so the
dispensing of ULSD to Mexico has been strictly limited to such quantity that permits Mexican trucks to legally operate in the USA according to NAFTA
agreements. Anything left over for non-commercial use should be considered a bonus.
* I have read various online accounts that claim ULSD is being sold in the cities of Monterrey, Guadalajara and Mexico City. I am skeptical of
these claims because ULSD must be transported solely by tanker truck from the United States and the number of diesel vehicles running around in these
huge cities would require such a vast amount of fuel it would far outstrip the logistic ability to deliver sufficient ULSD, and then secondly it would
drain an excessive amount of precious ULSD from US inventories.
* Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel is not present at the southern border areas with Belize or Guatemala.
It is unlikely that this situation will change in the foreseeable future. -David Eidell"
[Edited on 11-24-2009 by DeMinimis]
You gonna eat that?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64838
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Just how old is that article? Where did the RV site drag it up from?
David Eidell was last seen in the USA in 2002 and has since been bouncing around Mexico for all we know?
David Eidell was our guest in the Viva Baja van trip of 2001.
Here is Neal Johns pulling a cholla cactus off Eidell's foot:
Eidell did write a nice article about M's BBBB party we went to and our lost mission search that day... it is still online, I think?
Anyway... where did you find that old article about diesel?(The El Rosario Pemex owner is Antonio Muñoz...)
Again, what Antonio posted 2 yers ago:
>>>Regarding Diesel Ultra Low Sulfur (Diesel UBA), it's introduction began on October 2006, in Ciudad Juarez, Chihuahua. In January 2007 in
will be extensive throughout the Northern part of Mexico and then to the rest of the country.
We should be reminded that in Mexico we only have two kinds of Diesel... Regular diesel and Marine diesel... that is it... while in the States the are
several ones, each with different quality and quantities of sulfur.
BajaCactus
"Where the Baja is so much more than a dream..."<<<
[Edited on 11-25-2009 by David K]
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DeMinimis
Nomad
Posts: 271
Registered: 1-7-2008
Location: Orygun
Member Is Offline
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Was dated 10/09 on rvonline's site.
You gonna eat that?
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cftlet
Nomad
Posts: 119
Registered: 11-13-2008
Location: Grants Pass,OR.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Modelo Negro on my mind
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Unfortunatley I own a 2008 F350diesel.Ispent three months in Los Barriles last year and I got back two weeks ago for the winter.I have probably put
8,000 baja miles on.The truck is piece of crap and Im having lots of trouble with it(both here and the states) but none of the problems are related
to the fuel. I would not let the fuel question effect you plans.Just drink more pacificos and dont drive.
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DeMinimis
Nomad
Posts: 271
Registered: 1-7-2008
Location: Orygun
Member Is Offline
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...and it parallels some of what I'd read from Baja chase chase drivers. Its certainly causing me some pause. Would like to get a '08, but I'm a
little unnerved over the diesel issue in BCS. The possibility of having a 100k warranty go up in smoke does give one pause. Unfortunately, I wasn't
thinking about this last week when my in-laws made the trek down to BCS. I'm going to ask them to hit some of the larger stations around los Cabos
and see if any are listing their fuel as ultra low, although I fear I already know the answer. I'll report back any findings. Also, we're flying
down in a little more than one week for a quick fix. I'll do some checking when there and report back as well.
You gonna eat that?
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64838
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DeMinimis
Was dated 10/09 on rvonline's site. |
I just tried to go to 'RVonline', without success... Would you mind providing the link to that page please.
David Eidell was a big time posted on the old Amigos board... He disappeared about the same time Nomad ws starting up. There have been people who
emailed some of us (David's old amigos) looking for him...
Anyone out there see David Eidell?
Here he is with El Jefe at my Viva Baja II party, in 2001.
Here at Viva Baja #1 (Oct., 2000)
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DeMinimis
Nomad
Posts: 271
Registered: 1-7-2008
Location: Orygun
Member Is Offline
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David, we've got to work on those search skills Here it is:
http://www.rversonline.org/ArtMexULSD.html
David, how's the Taco holding up?
You gonna eat that?
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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There are a lot of diesel specific sites like powerstroke.org where you will get answers from diesel technicians about the consequences of running
higher sulfur diesel. I'm just going to keep the old 7.3 going as long as I can because it loves Mexican diesel.
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