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Woooosh
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Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
It takes about $4000 to get across whether you hire a coyote or go through the process to enter legally with a visa. |
Coyotes charge that much? No wonder organized crime has taken over the industry. |
Yup- that's the price. They started doing the coyote thing as COD a few years back too. So coyotes are now guaranteed their money and no one in the
group pays if they don't make it across. The coyotoes hold them in a "safe house" on the USA side until the money is paid. If the money isn't ready-
it gets very ugly, very fast.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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arrowhead
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The best thing you can do in these situations to to stay out of it. It is a no-win scenario. By the way, my sister-in-law, a naturalized US Citizen,
went through all the paperwork for her two daughters to legally immigrate to the US. Total time from start to finish - 12 years.
[Edited on 11-9-2009 by arrowhead]
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
Total time from start to finish - 12 years.
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That sucks. I think I'd be running through the hills too.
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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by alafrontera
Barry, I cordially invite you to come visit me and I will take you to the "special gate" at San Ysidro. Any day, any hour. They push them through
like cattle. It is amazing, they come from all over Mexico and we push them through a turnstyle into TJ with nothing more than the clothes on their
backs. Then we have the nerve to excite the public through our media about the crime and violence in Tijuana. Hmm... push hundreds of penniless men
through the gate into a rough city they have never been to with no way to contact their families and then wonder why there is so much crime. Gosh,
I'm baffled  |
With all due respect, you don't know jack. You are just regurgitating some things you heard. First of all, had you actually been at the turnstyle you
would know that the US gives each person a brown paper sack with a bottle of water and some personal hygiene items before they are sent through the
gate. You would also know that right on the other side are Mexican government employees who record the names of the returnees and arrange for them to
make free phone calls to their family for money/tickets home. They also start them on the process to get their Mexican ID papers. Everybody gets at
least one night at a shelter and three meals. Women and children can stay in the shelters much longer.
And if you want to know who is screaming like a stuck pig about the crime in Tijuana, I suggest you learn Spanish and start reading the Mexican
newspapers. What you read NOB is nothing but a small faction of the ranting going on down in Mexico. And if you want a real eye-opener, and a quick
lesson in Mexican vulgarities, you should read what the law-abiding citizens of Tijuana call these repatriated Mexicans.
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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k-rico
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Location: Playas de Tijuana
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"With all due respect, you don't know jack."
hahaha, pointy head you're a real charmer!
"And if you want a real eye-opener, and a quick lesson in Mexican vulgarities, you should read what the law-abiding citizens of Tijuana call these
repatriated Mexicans. "
Come on, fill us in, what do they call them?
[Edited on 11-9-2009 by k-rico]
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TMW
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
"
Come on, fill us in, what do they call them?
[Edited on 11-9-2009 by k-rico] |
I would like to know too.
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Bajahowodd
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The point about speaking little English, socializing only with one's kind, and not asssimilating..... Mexicans don't hold the monopoly on that. Just
travel around SoCal and visit neighborhoods of Vietnamese, Koreans, Samoans, Bangladeshis. The list goes on. It's not much different than the ghettos
occupied by the Irish, or the Italians a century ago. Of course last century, it was easier to enter the country. And today, there are lots of
illegals in the communities I cited. Certainly not numbering as high as the Mexicans. As for never applying for papers, it's already been mentioned,
that for many, it would be a futile waste of time and money. JMHO
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alafrontera
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Registered: 11-4-2009
Location: San Diego
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This is all really interesting.
Arrowhead, you are right, I only know what I am being told in TJ and here locally. I forget sometimes to qualify what I say with phrases like "what
I've heard" or "in my opinion", I didn't mean to sound like an authority on the subject.
Moving on, as far as the $4000 price tag... "I have heard" that for $2000 you can buy your way acros at San Ysidro, not true?
Also, "In my experience" it seems easier for someone to cross illegally and get legal here than to try to do it in Mexico. The example is
all these military guys we have here that marry mexicanas. Their SOP is to smuggle them across and then get them legal.
And as for the guys commng through the gate, I guess they are all just lying to me in an effort to sucker me out of money? I watch them come through,
never noticed any brown bags and they just hit the street and start walking. I will pay closer attention next time and maybe I'll learn Jack 
low lattitude attitude
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grace59
Senior Nomad
Posts: 614
Registered: 9-14-2004
Location: San Felipe, Baja, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
The point about speaking little English, socializing only with one's kind, and not asssimilating..... Mexicans don't hold the monopoly on that. Just
travel around SoCal and visit neighborhoods of Vietnamese, Koreans, Samoans, Bangladeshis. The list goes on. It's not much different than the ghettos
occupied by the Irish, or the Italians a century ago. Of course last century, it was easier to enter the country. And today, there are lots of
illegals in the communities I cited. Certainly not numbering as high as the Mexicans. As for never applying for papers, it's already been mentioned,
that for many, it would be a futile waste of time and money. JMHO |
Not just an issue in the US. I've been to plenty of places in Mexico where expats live amongst other expats, don't have any Mexican friends and
don't speak a word of Spanish. They expect the Mexicans to speak English if they want the "gringo's" business. I find that these are also the people
who complain when the go to the US and all the help at Wal-Mart are speaking Spanish. I think if you live in any other country that you should learn
a bit about the culture and a bit of the language. Just curious, do many of the Nomads on this board speak Spanish?
Whenever I hear that rainy, chill wind blow. I think it may be time to head for Mexico. Tengo que obedecer mi corazon!
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by grace59
Just curious, do many of the Nomads on this board speak Spanish? |
Yeah...I get by just fine. The trick I found is to just keep talking when you get to a sticking point. I've talked for hours and never left the
present tense. When I'm really stuck, I'll make up a few words.
This works with Mexicans. If I tried that in US culture, I'd be mocked and laughed at. Here, the people are too gracious to even correct my
slaughtered Spanish.
So...if you don't know how to say something, say it anyway. The Mexican mind will figure it out.
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alafrontera
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Registered: 11-4-2009
Location: San Diego
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"Just curious, do many of the Nomads on this board speak Spanish? "
I was thinking that would make a very interesting thread/ poll all on it's own. My guess is that the "nomads" here are more interested in immersion
than living in all American, English speaking isolated communities.
Yo tengo un poco espanol y estudio todos los dias, quiero mucho mas. Mi novia es mexicana y no tiene engles, makes for some interesting
"converstaions" 
low lattitude attitude
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grace59
Senior Nomad
Posts: 614
Registered: 9-14-2004
Location: San Felipe, Baja, Mexico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by alafrontera
"Just curious, do many of the Nomads on this board speak Spanish? "
I was thinking that would make a very interesting thread/ poll all on it's own. My guess is that the "nomads" here are more interested in immersion
than living in all American, English speaking isolated communities.
Yo tengo un poco espanol y estudio todos los dias, quiero mucho mas. Mi novia es mexicana y no tiene engles, makes for some interesting
"converstaions" |
Yo hablo un poco de Espanol, tambien. Yo quiero aprender mas porque algun dia yo quiero a viver en Mexico.
Like Dennis I can only speak in the present tense. Luckily my accent isn't bad and Mexican people are great about helping you learn the language.
There is just so much to learn. One time I asked for directions and the man was telling me that the place I wanted was (as I understood the spanish)
"on the right, three lots past the "Yonque"...could not figure out what that was...wasn't in my dictionary so I just heading in the given direction
until I saw the "Yonque" and that is how you learn new words when in Mexico
Whenever I hear that rainy, chill wind blow. I think it may be time to head for Mexico. Tengo que obedecer mi corazon!
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by alafrontera
"The whole issue is terribly complex."
Oh crap, I am new here and was hoping to avoid issues like this for a while, but this one pushes my buttons 
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Considering how few are actually "deported", ... |
Barry, I cordially invite you to come visit me and I will take you to the "special gate" at San Ysidro. Any day, any hour. They push them through
like cattle. It is amazing, they come from all over Mexico and we push them through a turnstyle into TJ with nothing more than the clothes on their
backs. Then we have the nerve to excite the public through our media about the crime and violence in Tijuana. Hmm... push hundreds of penniless men
through the gate into a rough city they have never been to with no way to contact their families and then wonder why there is so much crime. Gosh,
I'm baffled
Yes, it's a complicated issue and a major one here in San Diego. As Bajahowodd implied, if you avoid the extremest positions and try to look at it
objectively you can go nuts trying to figure out what is right. As for the original question obviously you have to follow your conscience but
personally I wouldn't say a thing to anyone. People cross illegally every day. I have a friend that has been here for many years, goes home 3-4
times a year. He says it's a piece of cake, there are so many trails over the mountains he doesn't think twice. If he gets caught today he crosses
tomorrow, no big deal. |
Alafrontera--------
I spent 2 years with the San Diego PD working with the border folks often---
I spent 13 years as a Federal Agent in El Centro, working with the Border Patrol most of that time, and in the field--------
I am just coming from that experience--------but that was some time ago, and things are somewhat different now, but only in the sense that the traffic
has increased, I suspect, and have been told by folks still active on the border.
The complexities of the situation result in no action-------"no action" is seldom the answer, as time has proven. People broke the laws with their
eyes wide open----and can/should/will suffer the consequences, all kinds of consequences. All the immigraion laws need to be inforced, or repealed,
IMO. We have a problem!!!! and as always, simplification is the answer. We need to get on with it.
Barry
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by alafrontera
My guess is that the "nomads" here are more interested in immersion than living in all American, English speaking isolated communities.
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Immersion is only a small part of it. A strong desire to learn the language is most important. It's more difficult as we age. We lose the talent to
learn.
Another thing about immersion....one has to be selective of a chosen area which to reside in. There are areas in which we just don't belong and your
new neighbors will make that clear.
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Bajahowodd
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Some folks have a better ability to learn languages than others. Especially true for the young. One reason there are so many English speakers in
Europe is that they start off in primary school. As for myself, a similar problem. between high school and college, I must have taken three or four
years of Spanish, but getting out of the present tense (correctly) is a challenge.
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alafrontera
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Registered: 11-4-2009
Location: San Diego
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FWIW, I have both read and been told by language intructors that learning a second language greatly reduces the chances of contracting Alzheimer's.
Something to do with the brain processes involved. My Spanish is still very poor but I knew I had turned the corner when I began to think in
Spanish
low lattitude attitude
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by alafrontera
but I knew I had turned the corner when I began to think in Spanish
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It seems you have reversed the process. I can't even imagine how.
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Bajahowodd
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Dennis- It's always easier when one is inebriated. Eliminates the self-conscious issue of fearing a mistake. 
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by alafrontera
FWIW, I have both read and been told by language intructors that learning a second language greatly reduces the chances of contracting Alzheimer's.
Something to do with the brain processes involved. My Spanish is still very poor but I knew I had turned the corner when I began to think in
Spanish |
You have accomplished something outstanding, I am thinking. My highschool spanish teacher, a Mexican, told us that he thought in Spanish, not
English, even tho he spoke both fluently. My understanding is that it is difficult to make the transgression to thinking in a non-native
language------but I don't really know, for sure.
Anyway, congratulations-------I envy you. I never could do that.
Barry
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Dennis- It's always easier when one is inebriated. Eliminates the self-conscious issue of fearing a mistake. |
I quit worrying about mistakes a long time ago. Too old for that intimidation.
I was just thinking it seems more than just difficult to think in Spanish before one has learned the symbols for the concepts, the words.
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