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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Race before last. Concussion and bruised ribs, but ok enough to get second in La Bocana
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64719
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Well... of those 68 who voted...
15 don't want anyone to enjoy the fun and excitement of off road racing VS. 53!
If that is the overall trend, then there is hope for the people of Baja to continue to benefit and for the rest of us to enjoy the action!
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Fred-o
Junior Nomad
Posts: 84
Registered: 7-6-2008
Location: Punta Banda
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Pre-Running??
It seems to be occuring someplace in Baja 24/7 X 365.
Being a "back-road" Baja traveller, the roads seem to be getting more and more torn up from the race vehicles.
Dodging pre-runners ain't much fun either.
Someone once told me that SCORE paid the ejidos for tearing up the roads,
so they could be repaired.
Don't know if that is true,
but I do know the ejidos are sure not putting money back into fixing roads.
[Edited on 11-24-2009 by Fred-o]
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Enjoy it while it last, the clock is ticking and eventually it wont be held no more.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
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Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Enjoy it while it last, the clock is ticking and eventually it wont be held no more. |
Since this race is held in Mexico, I think it is not important at all as to how gringos feel about it----it would be interesting to see how more
Mexican's felt about.
From the ones I know, some participate, some love it, and some hate it----wonder which group is in the majority.
Also, curious as to why you think the clock is ticking??
Thanks for your perspective.
Diane
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
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The financial benefits of the race shrink each year as the economy grows, theres more landowners (and druglords) who don't want people in their land,
theres more local environmentalist groups. etc etc
Racing is a big thing here in La Paz, and to some in Ensenada, but the overwhelming mayority of Mexicans in Baja are not interested in a sport they
see as for rich people and drugdealers. If the goverment decided to kill the race, it wouldn't have major political costs.
Its a matter of time.
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DianaT
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Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
The financial benefits of the race shrink each year as the economy grows, theres more landowners (and druglords) who don't want people in their land,
theres more local environmentalist groups. etc etc
Racing is a big thing here in La Paz, and to some in Ensenada, but the overwhelming mayority of Mexicans in Baja are not interested in a sport they
see as for rich people and drugdealers. If the goverment decided to kill the race, it wouldn't have major political costs.
Its a matter of time. |
Thanks
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ElFaro
Nomad
Posts: 231
Registered: 9-16-2007
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There needs to be a reality check here regarding the Baja 500 and Baja 1000.
Why should the Baja Mexicans tolerate Baja as the rich So. Calif. racers sandbox for this many years? Why do you think SCORE has gotten away with
these races in the past?...because the Baja Mexicans were too few and too poor to have any say about who was running roughshod over their land. SCORE
simply has done an "end-around" by dealing with the Mex. government directly and bypassing the locals. But I don't think that will last. Some
Mexican business people I have talked to know that the races bring virtually no economic impact to Baja.
First the myths...
1. 250,000 spectators...pure BS...and who is providing these #'s...SCORE and Sal Fish of course! They have a MAJOR PR problem right now with
justifying these races in Baja. All these stats are WAGS (Wild *ss Guesses). It all depends how you define "spectators". Yea if I'm driving down
the hiway and I glance over to the race course I'm I counted as a "spectator"?
2. I have seen WAGS of the races bringing in $1-4 million..more gross BS from SCORE. More like max. $100,000. Most of these racers and their support
crews are self-contained...very little $'s spent in Baja...a few hotel rooms, beer, tacos, and condoms.
3. I had never been down for a Baja 500 or 1000 race until about 3 years ago. At the time my brother and I happened on a Baja 500 race in Ensenada
while returning from fishing in San Quintin. We stopped at Estero Beach for the night. There was no place to park our trailer so the mgr. let us
park along side the "game room" for the night. The campground was full of toy haoulers and the hotel had a few rooms booked. What I saw was a real
"eye opener". All the racers were staying in the campground at $45/nite...so figure roughly 80 sites times $45 equals $3600/nite per day...for what 3
days? Maybe $10,000 for lodging for what looked like an average of 4 people per site so per person $12/day...hardly any big spenging going on here.
And...everyone was eating their own food prepared in their trailers! In fact a couple had outdoor cooking areas set up and had "chow lines". So I
don't want to hear about all this money being spent in "local" restaurants 'cause it ain't happening".
4. And all the racers in the campground had their own tools, parts, equipment, etc. and were sharing with each other which means "local" Mexican
repair shops are completely by-passed...they're not even a factor...certainly no $'s spent there.
5. Next opportunity you can check out a video of the Baja 1000 finish line...the one I watched a couple years ago was in Cabo and the 1st thing I
noticed was there were virtually NO Mexicans at the finish line to greet the racers! THEY DON"T CARE!
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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As a local (as in Baja) club racer I agree that time is limited. Its getting harder and harder to set up the courses....
D... can we race in front of your house? plenty of dirt roads there!
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
As a local (as in Baja) club racer I agree that time is limited. Its getting harder and harder to set up the courses....
D... can we race in front of your house? plenty of dirt roads there! |
The local off road races they run around there are at the other end of town---we would be MORE than happy to guide you to that far superior area in
which to race. 
Then you can come back and enjoy a beer in the peace and quiet.
[Edited on 11-24-2009 by DianaT]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ElFaro
4. And all the racers in the campground had their own tools, parts, equipment, etc. and were sharing with each other which means "local" Mexican
repair shops are completely by-passed...they're not even a factor...certainly no $'s spent there.
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I agree with most everything you say except point 4. What would the local mechanics know about someone's race car and, obviously you haven't been to
too many parts stores here when you needed something. It's a flip of the coin whether or not you will leave the store with that part.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
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El Faro. wait a minute. check some of your facts... how many racers were from Mexico in this years race?
Yes there is a dominance, especially in dollars, from the US. But there is alot of Mexican participation. And the locals do like to watch (as
dangerous as it is)
Locals do participate. Mulege Municipality has an entire circuit for off-road racing. This weekend 500 kilometers. Many participants. With only
one Gringo. my son/.. by the way... some on this board have also accused me of being an enviro.
check it out, that is if you want to check your facts
http://www.elpatorojo.com/epr/v3/forov2/showthread.php?p=157...
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DianaT
Select Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Mulege Municipality has an entire circuit for off-road racing.
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BTW---we would come and watch Kevin racing ---at the other end of town. 
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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I think the only place where theres limited economic benefit is Ensenada. I guess crews spend a few days there getting ready, bring their friends and
families, who use restaurants, hotels, and bars. Down in Baja sur is a different story. Racers and their crews just want to get back home.
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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Well I guess all the money I have spent over the years for hotel rooms, resturants plus tips, gas, taco stands, the bars I drank in, T shirts, toll
roads, passes to some ranchers field to park plus parking in the dirt lots in town were for what, nothing. If the Mexicans didn't get any of it then
who the hell was collecting my money?
If you don't think it has an impack on the local economy then go down to San Felipe and ask any hotel or resturant employee what happened when they
moved the 250 to Ensenada a couple of years ago. To say there is not many Mexicans in it or people watching it is BS. For Mexican in the race get an
entry list and go down the names. Come to the start line for the bikes and cars.
ElFaro you have a standing invite to come along with me for the next 500 or 1000 race, even the prerun. We'll do contingency, the rider/drivers
meeting and be at the start of the bikes and Trophy Trucks and cars. Then head out to watch them at selected sites.
Yes there are more and more areas closing down for many reasons and at some point the long races may have to end, so be it. For now If you don't like
Off-Road Racing fine take a vacation and get away from it.
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Paulclark
Nomad
Posts: 357
Registered: 10-13-2008
Location: Castillo de Arena
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As a racer in BCS I see up to 150 cars entered in the 16 to 18 races held in BCS every year from Loreto to San Lucas. There are 2 local series, and a
national series which has races here and on the mainland. Some of the races are track events, but the majority are point to point off road and most
of the roads are seldom travelled by the public. Of those 150 plus entries there are 3 or 4 non-Mexican entries. If you go to any of the track events
there will be 5,000+ spectators at a good event, more people than at any other event in BCS. And there is a political impact -- the governor or the
president is there waving the start flag and making his presence known at most events.
There is an event in San Jose on December 6th, which is part of the National Series, so there will be cars from the mainland, and all Baja.
Inscription (sign up) is usually held in the Wal Mart (San Lucas) parking lot the night before the race and it will be packed with people.
When you are driving one of these races it is amazing to see all the people turn out with the whole family and camp in the middle of nowhere under a
tree and cheer the racers on, or be broken down and have people immediately there offering their help. Racing is part of the fabric of BCS and you
can only appreciate the impact of it when you have experienced the event.
Because these races are marketed to the Choyeros few nomads are aware they are taking place and how much it is part of the local culture.
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fishbuck
Banned
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Registered: 8-31-2006
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What's a " Choyeros "?
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64719
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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It is the nature of man to push the limits of his abilities... Racing is a natural thing... be it on foot, in water, on a horse, or motor bike or
vehicle.
Since government to some is a tool to take away freedom and natural activity as a form of control, it is not surprising to hear that some expect (or
hope) that 'government' will stop the tradition of off road racing that began in Baja California 42 years ago.
Thanks for your words TW, I read them just now and I don't need to add my comments about the effects of free enterprise that is spurred by this or
other types of events in Baja. You said exactly what I would have said.
I have been going to Baja for of road racing events as a spectator, pit support member and once as a co-driver since 1973... and the events have an
overwhelming positive financial impact.
Sure, it is crowded and difficult to drive for a day or two... Sure there is pre-running for a few weeks before the race (pre-runners spend money
too)... Sure the roads are chewed up after a race uses them... LIFE IS ROUGH. Jobs for locals, food on the table, clothes for their kids, should mean
more than the inconvenience to some of you tourists or ex-pats.
Thanks Paulclark and Ralph for your observations about Mexican run off road racing in BCS.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18046
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Sure, it is crowded and difficult to drive for a day or two... Sure there is pre-running for a few weeks before the race (pre-runners spend money
too)... Sure the roads are chewed up after a race uses them... LIFE IS ROUGH. Jobs for locals, |
economic benefit is not justification for environmental damage. i suppose clear cutting the last of the old growth timber in WA, OR and CA would be
allowable if it was economically beneficial to locals? perhaps the locals would like to build a hydroelectric dam in yosemite valley? i bet farmers
would love to spray their fields with malathion and DDT, and should be allowed to do so because it is economically beneficial?
dk: i will await your cost benefit analysis -- standing by!
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Oh, DK. More political stuff injected. The reality is that there are folks who enjoy travelling fast, kicking up dust and making noise. My take on all
this racing stuff is that eventually it will disappear. That will happen when there is more urbanization, when fuel costs astronomical prices, and
when bowling alleys become ubiquitous.
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