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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Ok, let's set the record straight. Striped Marlin is not very good but is certainly better than Sailfish, which is ok, but pretty greasy. Blue
marlin is a lot better and is very popular and is certainly an improvment on Stripey's. But Black is in a class all of itself and is a very good
eating fish.
I agree with the catch and release but that is a pretty "North of the Border" kind of an idea. It is just barely catching on in places like Cabo
and Mag Bay, so I am willing to cut a little slack to these guys who have probably just caught their first marlin. I can even understand how rare
these things are and how they would want to show it to everyone since it is such a rare occurence. I am sure that they will want to go back to
grouper and yellowtail which are probably superior but it is pretty hard to do that to your first fish. Even the established fisheries usually cut a
lot of slack to a person who has just caught their very first marlin.
I fish a lot with a commercial fisherman and when I released a marlin while he stood ready with he gaff, we did get to talk a lot about the wisdom
of releasing and I noticed one day when he was by himself that he caught a stripey, which was promptly released. So, there is hope, it just takes
awhile and there are years of conditioning here that have to be taken into account. |
As you often do, you nailed it, IMHO.
And while we may not always agree with them, these are our friends and they have been very good to us.
Thanks
Diane
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Ok, let's set the record straight. Striped Marlin is not very good but is certainly better than Sailfish, which is ok, but pretty greasy. Blue
marlin is a lot better and is very popular and is certainly an improvment on Stripey's. But Black is in a class all of itself and is a very good
eating fish.
I agree with the catch and release but that is a pretty "North of the Border" kind of an idea. It is just barely catching on in places like Cabo
and Mag Bay, so I am willing to cut a little slack to these guys who have probably just caught their first marlin. I can even understand how rare
these things are and how they would want to show it to everyone since it is such a rare occurence. I am sure that they will want to go back to
grouper and yellowtail which are probably superior but it is pretty hard to do that to your first fish. Even the established fisheries usually cut a
lot of slack to a person who has just caught their very first marlin.
I fish a lot with a commercial fisherman and when I released a marlin while he stood ready with he gaff, we did get to talk a lot about the wisdom
of releasing and I noticed one day when he was by himself that he caught a stripey, which was promptly released. So, there is hope, it just takes
awhile and there are years of conditioning here that have to be taken into account. |
As you often do, you nailed it, IMHO.
And while we may not always agree with them, these are our friends and they have been very good to us.
Thanks
Diane |
Hey fisherman, what's up with the taste thang? Prefacing the subject matter with lip-smacking may give the reader the wrong impression. Like Diane,
she has no idea what the different specie(s) are let alone can tell you what each tastes like, yet she agrees with you.
There are lots of yummy illegal or endangered animals out there. Where do people draw the line.
Endorsing the indiscriminate taking and killing of billfish is something I've always rallied against. Same with some other animals too, sharks for
instance. I expect tourist anglers to respect the serious situation and do their part to save a specie or fishery.
We obviously can't be legal advocates or even stewards in Mexico but we can be considerate and minimally impactive. It's the least we can do on our
part.
As far as Nationals or the locals go giving a ratsass, it doesn't happen unless the fishery like lobster and abs becomes such a valuable commodity
that they have to institute and strictly enforce the fishery.
Gringos habitually abuse Mexicos' resources in their quest for bigger and better. Testosterone is a hard one to reign in.
Just look at that big grin!
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Diver, when the hell are you gonna start behaving like a real diver!
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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castaway$
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
Registered: 7-31-2007
Location: Gold Hill, Oregon
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Mood: Fish on!
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When taking any game fish or game animal it is wise to consider BALANCE, does the eco system survive with an over abundance of predators? Prey?
Balance = selective harvest! Don't keep everything you catch, keep a reasonable amount of what you enjoy eating and release the rest.
IMHO
Live Indubiously!
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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I've never eaten Black Marlin. Only Blue and Striped. But now that I know that Black marlin is so delicious I guess I'll have to catch one, kill it
and eat it.
Thanks for the tip!
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
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Registered: 8-31-2006
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Ha ha, not really! But I would like to catch one some day... and release it.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3290
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Location: Buena Vista BCS
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Mood: Tranquilo
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I once clubbed a baby seal, ate it and made some nice slippers for mi esposa bonita from its fur. We have an advantage being the dominate specie on
the planet with our opposing thumb and all.........just kidding, second bottle of wine......carry on....dt
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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DianaT
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Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Hey fisherman, what's up with the taste thang? Prefacing the subject matter with lip-smacking may give the reader the wrong impression. Like Diane,
she has no idea what the different specie(s) are let alone can tell you what each tastes like, yet she agrees with you.
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Yes I have far less knowledge than you do about about species of fish, but I agreed with the understanding of different situations---not everything is
black and white. and IMHO, never will be
Diane
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BajaBruno
Super Nomad
Posts: 1035
Registered: 9-6-2006
Location: Back in CA
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Mood: Happy
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Jeez. No wonder nomads hesitate to post fishing reports here. Some of us are awfully judgmental.
Do you suppose he caught that on the Rapala hanging from its mouth?
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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fishbuck
Banned
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It looks like an iron jig not a Rapala
[Edited on 12-4-2009 by fishbuck]
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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fishbuck
Banned
Posts: 5318
Registered: 8-31-2006
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Similar to this:
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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msteve1014
Senior Nomad
Posts: 947
Registered: 12-2-2006
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Drinking tecate, eating lobster on the boat, catching black marlin... Looks like a great day to me.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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I was catch and release before it was even considered "cool" or "correct" to do so, and have watched how the sportsmans magazines, TV shows, general
media, and other means of communication like person to person take place in the United States and Canada. That is all well and good and has had a
really positive impact on the concept and theory of Catch and Release fishing, but before you bash Diane too hard, lets open your eyes a little bit
and realize that you are dealing with a fishing community whose only contact with "them fancy northern ideas" is through contacts with the tourist
fishing community. They sure aren't getting a lot of that by watching fishing shows on TV or reading the latest issue of Sportfishing in Spanish. So
try to understand that their life experiences and influences are different than yours, not better, not worse, just different, and before you go about
castigating a whole culture for keeping and eating a fish that has rarely or maybe never seen before, try real hard to walk a little distance in their
moccasins and see if the picture is not a little different.
We do get a lot of marlin on the other side and because I speak the language, understand a lot of the culture, and am a respected fisherman with
knowledge that is different from theirs, I usually have at least some audience when I talk about the rarity of billfish and how they are better served
to release them. My latest project is trying to get more of the native fisherman who target yellowtail to use circle hooks so that when a big fish
breaks off (which happens a lot due to the size and power of these fish) the fish has a chance of survival and may end up in their boat at a later
time, whereas with a J-hook that is hooked deep in the stomach, there is no chance of survival if a hooked fish breaks off.
So I am a little disturbed by what looks like cultural disdain for I think the issue goes beyond the Political Correctness of "Catch and Release"
and gets into an issue of seeing the bigger picture. Of course catch and release is the answer and has proven effective in managing fish stocks, but
try to see the picture from the local fishermans point who probably has not had all the "exposure" to your way of thinking.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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The photo did not kill that fish, so back off blaming Diane for posting it (good for her to help a local Baja businessman).
The number of tourist in Baja is so low now, the fish will repopulate freely... If you have a billfish issue, take it up with the Asian factory ship
raping the Mexican waters and the Mexican government for allowing it to happen.
Pick your battles, and they should never be with Baja Nomads for POSTING PHOTOS... Better to be able to see things (good or bad) than to be blind to
the reality of what's happening.
Thanks Diane for posting the Bahia Asuncion photos.
[Edited on 12-4-2009 by David K]
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bajabass
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Posts: 2016
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Location: La Paz,BCS
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Mood: Want to fish!!!
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That is the picture of a very proud fisherman. He and his family will eat well for many days on that fish. When you have to fish to stay alive, you
MAY begin to understand the mindset of a Mexican fisherman. Whether it puts money in his pocket, or food on the table, expecting him to release that
fish is akin to expecting a car salesman to give you a easy great deal on a new car. I for one am much more concerned with seiners, longliners, bottom
trawlers, and reefdivers stripping the oceans relentlessly. I fish in Mexico almost every weekend that weather permits. I release 90% of the fish I
catch, and this practice is catching on quickly, and the recent ramping up of enforcement on sport limits is helping as well. As the proposed MLPA's
are implemented in California, I expect to see the numbers of U.S. fishermen in Northern Baja to explode in the next couple years, and I hope they
will respect the resources and obey the limit laws. I really want to be able to catch fish like I do now, for a long, long time.
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Osprey
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Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Pescador, as all this catches up, catches on, all fishermen, Mexicans and extranjeros are going to have to take circle hook lessons (or maybe hypnosis
might work) because the idea is to pull the hook toward the boat, away from the stomach and into the lip/mouth. All that entails erasing all the
muscle memory from bizzillions of the other kinds of hookups which entailed waiting and hoping, followed by touching and feeling followed by pulling
the rod tip up back, high and hard maybe several times. Invision Circle Hook University or Baja Sur Circle Hook Academy.
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Don Alley
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Posts: 1997
Registered: 12-4-2003
Location: Loreto
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I think it's important to promote, and sometimes even require, catch and release fishing, but only in the context of working towards a goal of
sustainable fisheries, not as an end in itself. So releasing billfish is an important concept for the Mexican captains who target billfish for their
clients, as happens out of Cabo San Lucas, for example. There, catch and release can be a viable alternative to a sport that would otherwise have a
significant impact on fish stocks due to the large numbers of fish caught.
But for a rare an incidental catch such as this one, I don't really see any significant impact on fishing, and the only result of insisting on catch
and release in instances like this are to undermine the credibility of catch and release advocates in the eyes of the local fishermen.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Diane, permit me one more little hijack and I'll leave you alone.
Alka-Selzer Hooks
I knew the guy, Chad Atkins. He was sitting, standing, lurching near the bar at Rancho Leonero as he let us know how he felt about the hooks to be
used in the fishing tournament which would begin just 39 hours from now. “Screw MC. Screw MC users and all the sponsors who are pushing this crap.”
He was jawjackin’ about the Multi-Coated Hooks which had been declared mandatory by the tournament board. At first I thought he was just exercised
about which company got the OK to provide the hooks, or the cost, about $12 per hook.
He went on. “I’m not takin’ my whole crimping kit out there, have my sleeves dancin’ all over the deck, fumblin’ around makin’ leaders and rigs on
board, while we’re supposed to be fishin’.”
I’d heard it all before. Another hard-head who didn’t get the message. Tournament fishing has come a long way from keep all the fish to tag and
brag, water measure and all release, circle hooks and now the MC hooks. The new hooks were catching on. Here and at other fishing resorts the
managers tell the bartenders to cook a hook or two in a c-cktail glass every shift. That way, everybody gets to watch, touch, feel, be a part of
something. In sea water you can almost see the things dissolving in the glass.
Gamakatsu beat Owner by just 20 days when the hooks in the little bags full of gel hit the market. They won the big prize, got a jump on Mustad,
Owner, the other big hook sellers. As tournament directors around the world learned about the strength tests, the 48 hour dissolving time, the cost,
they began to get in line. The hookmakers were still taking flack about the fact that the gel packets looked like condoms, that all bets were off
about hook life after the packets were opened. Members of Billfish Groups, now dedicated to the use of the hooks, could finally feel they were doing
all they could do for the fishery wherever their tournaments were held, whatever game fish was the object of their contest.
I suppose every salt water fishermen, especially those who fish for billfish, wondered just how long it took his hooks, in the mouth, gill or gut of
a fish he released, to rust out. Bar room chatter would always include some conjecture about days or weeks for ordinary hooks but in their hearts and
minds they knew better. All of them had found, at one time or another, a rusty hook in their tackle cupboard that was still sharp and strong; a rusty
relic that had never been used, was shiny and bright 10 or 15 years ago when it was purchased. Not enough to say “well this thing’s been here in the
drawer all this time, not in salt water”. Serious sportsmen are willing to buy, rig and use disposable hooks; same-day hooks make for short-time
rigging but the fishermen can now check the rig, the leader, just before use, be assured everything looks good.
When ole Chad sobers up tomorrow he’ll buy some MC hooks, take his kit aboard, crimp and grumble. Later he’ll brag about using the hooks to whoever
will listen to him back home.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BMG
| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Posting photos of landed Black Marlin seems like an endorsement and is akin to promotion imo.
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What's is Diane promoting? |
Sharks, I am not promoting the taking of Black Marlin---I doubt that it would become a problem in our area.
I am promoting possible business for friends.
I have never heard anyone who has fished with Juan have anything but real praise for him as a guide, fisherman, and gentleman and we never hesitate to
recommend him. Shari and Juan have worked hard and deserve the business they have.
Living there much of the time, we also have other friends who are have businesses, including fishing, that we would like to suggest and promote ---
and they were very proud of this catch as it is unusual.
I knew there would be controversy, and IMHO, Pescador always seems to make the most sense when it comes to fishing and its relationship to the
cultures.
Osprey,
Hijack away-----please, please, please.
[Edited on 12-4-2009 by DianaT]
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castaway$
Senior Nomad
Posts: 742
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Location: Gold Hill, Oregon
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Mood: Fish on!
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I applaud the passion of all the fishermen and women who contribute to the debate over the issue of the taking and consuming "sport caught fish",
there are many valid points on both sides of the debate.
In particular I appreciate the contribusion by bajabass, it has been proven time and time again by science and sportsman alike that the true crux of
the problem is commercial fishing and the enviromentally destructive methods used to make a buck and the heinous act of discarding the bycatch because
it wasn't the intended or valuable species being sought.
I catch and consume fish, I catch and release fish, as a sport fisherman it has also been proven many times over that sportfishermen (and women, my
wife is an excellent fisherprson but she has a great guide) have a VERY small impact on fish populations and sport fishing has one of the most ardent
group of conservationists in support of preservation of all species and sealife in general.
I will continue to eat fish, and my personal protest leads me to predominately eat the fish I catch, I take my boat, use methods that promote the
optimal opportunity to release fish I don't want to consume and I don't have any bycatch that is wastefully discarded.
In the Northwest the Salmon species are in serious trouble, I will only eat a Salmon I or those on my boat catch, I will not buy it in a store or a
restaurant because I know where it came from and I don't want my dollars supporting the demise of the species.
I understand everybody has to make a living and I am not an anti commerial fishing advocate nor do I have problems with fish markets or restaurants,
it's about the dollars if consumers quit buying in protest to methods change may occur.
This thread was fueled by the mexican keeping a Marlin, I'd be willing to bet he honored the Marlin by not being wasteful, I'd be willing to bet he
didn't destroy the environment when he caught it, and you can bet your a** there wasn't any bycatch that was wasted.
Enjoy the Marlin senor and if I run into you in Baja lets enjoy a cerveza and some fish for dinner------even if it's marlin!
Live Indubiously!
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