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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Jorge- I'm with you 100% on your last post. I just can't imagine people making such a trip, to such a magical place and fearing just about everything
and everybody. Truth is that their are plenty of gringos who never do venture beyond the US borders for those very same reasons. My hope is that folks
like sharktooth may have an epiphany during their travel, and relax, lighten up and learn to blend with and embrace their foreign surroundings.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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epiphany, stop that it slows down my reading
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
OK, now I feel a little bad.
I am issuing a public apology for sometimes being a big, giant Richarddon'tcallmedick. Or, otherwise known as the by-product of growing up an alterboy
with drunken priests! Or, being a social safety net for a career choice. Or, bad genetics. Or, being Irish and Italian. Or, being an occasionally
obtuse drunken fool........pick your poison.
I am all about the freedom, oddly enough, that we no longer have NOB that we can celebrate down south.
Saludos.
Peace, love and fish tacos. |
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Howard, I had such an epiphany myself. It lead me down here to find peace and happiness. I was on the L.A. freeway system on a place from which I
could see literally almost to the horizon and we were the preverbial parking lot. As we inched along I took out my imaginary Zap gun and began zapping
cars and trucks. As they vaporized, my imaginary roadway began to clear. I was careful not to zap the very few vehicles that represented what I would
need, who had to be left to serve me, be served by me: an ambulance, a doctor, a butcher, a singer, a winemaker, you get the picture. They were left
unharmed to zoom down the road with me and we got along famously without the zillions of others I zapped. The thing was telling me I would be happy
with less, with little, if left almost alone but I could live a fuller life in harmony with fewer people.
That's just me -- perhaps there are expats in Mexico who find they don't like that life, that they must go back, that they can't do without operas and
Ben and Jerry's, and major league sports events, NASCAR, etc. etc.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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People should be very jealous of you, as way too many folks are just not able to stop and smell the roses. As for any unhappy expats, it's probably
their own fault. I think too many people fail to consider what happens when one becomes immersed in a different culture full time. Taking a few
vacations is hardly the way to determine when and where to make life altering decisions.
Just glad that zap gun was imaginary!
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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I have traveled in Mexico for over forty years. The mainland is different than Baja in some respects. I now understand that the water in Baja is more
predictably sanitary than can be predicted on the mainland. I have had some very nasty bugs on the mainland and on a number of occasions.
I have been food poisoned in fancy restaurants and in small mom and pop places on the mainland.
Sanitation has saved more lives than all of the medicine ever produced and that includes antibiotics.
When I travel I am aware of the conditions of where I eat. The place may look shabby, but the cleanliness can be top rate and the food the best you
have ever eaten. Cleanliness is the key and that includes in the USofA.
I look for evidence of ongoing maintenance of the place. How does it smell? Are there lots of flies around. Are the counters clean? Do I see cooks
etc. washing their hands? How does the hygiene of the cook appear?
It is important to also remember that just traveling to a different place can induce intestinal upset due to the different flaura and fauna in local
water supplies. Our guts need time to adjust. Mexicans traveling to the USofA have the same problem.
I tend to use Acidophilis on a regular basis and many Mexicans do also. You can find it in small bottles of liguid at nearly any store with a cooler.
Maintaining healthy digestive flora is a good idea whether traveling or not.
I would encourage you to eat out in Baja. The cuisine of Mexico is varied from region to region and is WONDERFUL. If you are wondering about a place
to eat, look who is eating there. Use your judgement. Some of the best tacos I have ever had are from carts on the street. I look at the qualtiy of
folks who are eating there in addition to looking at their sanitary practices.
I also expect to experience some intestinal distress and so know what to use for it. You should know if you have any allergies to certain antibiotics
before ordering over the counter. Having said that there are some great remedies available. Kaomycena is a combination of kaopectate and an antibiotic
that works directly on the bugs in your gut as well as slowing down the trots. My Spanish spelling is poor but if you need medications for this
condition you can find antibiotics over the counter in Mexico. I have found for me Cipro is an excellent drug for intestinal infections. In my
experience it is fast acting and works very well. I am not a Medical Doctor and am not giving medical advice here, only sharing my experience.
There are EXCELLENT physicians in Mexico and Baja is no different. I would caution you to be sure that a physician that you go to is a real M.D. I had
experience in the Yucatan where I inadvertantly went to a Naturopath who gave me charcoal and acidophilis for Sominella, could have killed me. I found
the good doc, with Italian sandles and gold neck chain who prescribed me the proper antibiotics. I asked local gringos for recommendations.
Osprey is right to encourage you to get out of your "bubble" when traveling in Mexico on your own or take a cruise ship where everything is
homogenized and you will only get respiratory illness like everyone else on the cruise ship.
Soap and water, bottled water if you choose, is one of the best ways to clean veggies. If you are not comfortable with soap and water to wash your
veggies and want to soak them in order to be even more sure of their edibility you can use the following products listed below.
I know that on the mainland that many restaurants soak their veggies before preparing them. Here is a list of products one can use to sanitize their
veggies.
* Iodine - Follow instructions, and rinse well with purified water afterwards.
* Microdyn - This is a popular brand in Mexico, BTW (easy to find). Follow the instructions on the bottle and make sure to let it sit for the full 15
minutes.
* Chlorine - Use very little (maybe 10 drops per liter) and rinse with purified water.
* Hydrogen peroxide - Quarter cup for a sink full of water, rinse with purified water.
* White vinegar - Spray and let them sit a few minutes, rinse with purified water or prepare.
* Grapefruit Seed Extract (GSE) - About 15-20 drops per quart of water, let them sit a few minutes, ready.
I want to also encourage you to keep asking questions on this board, you will find excellent and current information on this site that you won't find
any other place.
Iflyfish
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Well said Osprey.. Have to agree with your point.. And your "word picture" as I spent about 3/4 of my life in a car on a freeway, freeway system or
surface streets.. I find driving down here a pleasure overall, if folks would just slow down, what is 15-20 minutes more getting somewhere...
I used to love to drive, but hate it up in the States anymore.. Every time we go across into California.. It does not take more than 30 minutes... and
there are maybe 4-5 cars that are RACING on the freeway at 100+ miles an hour.. In traffic ... I'm mean they think they are in a video game.. It just
scares the hell out of me ...... you can't have that happing that is just insane, as is texing and talking on a cell phone.. It’s one thing to
communicate information while driving.. But, I suspect there is a lot of "TALK" going on. and that's scares me.. You put a bunch of cars on the
freeway traveling between 55-80 and then though in 4 or 5 running at 100 and some talking on cell phones.. Let me out please.. I don't want to play
bumper cars... no thanks
It's just a flash you gave me with your description of "setting" on a stupid freeway.... AAAAHHHHhhh
As to the other, right again... and what's worse I'm finding myself bring more down that I need.. but do I…. hard to say.... think it all depends on
the individual situation.. but, then I tend to not need as much as my wife.. If it was me buying the food.. oh, my god we would starve to death...
Women are taught the importance of food.. we are playing cowboys and Indians in the dirt.. they are taught the importance of having a house and
getting furniture.. we make forts some we can play war..
But, then that is not addressing your point, reducing one’s reliance on a support system, which we have in great supply in the United States
But, it comes with a terrible price. I hear Soulpatch, and see his family and he is moving from the United States to find the United States .. and he
nor they are doing it for the children. He wants his children to grow up where it is not what he see’es and what you described and what you reminded
me of too.. that life
Thank you both
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V020XgCqHFo
James Taylor got it.
Iflyfish
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Just think. James Taylor released that song (album JT) in 1977! Any idea how much worse traffic is today? Call it a quantum leap!
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Good post there FF. Be careful though if you do use Cipro. It is an extremely powerful wide-spectrum antibiotic and will destroy good flora as well as
bad. So reestablishing healthy intestinal bioflora will be necessary if you use it.
Does Raid rinse off with just cold water???
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Doubt it. Petroleum distillates.
http://www.killsbugsdead.com/fop_ark_pre.asp
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
As for organic: most farmers down this way can plant, water, weed and harvest their crops but hardly any of them can afford (so they don't use)
pesticides and fertilizer. THEY ARE ALL ORGANIC FARMERS. Only now are some locals cashing in on the O craze when that's what they have done naturally
for a couple hundred years.
[Edited on 2-6-2010 by Osprey] |
This I have to disagree with. I look down on the huertas of Pescadero and
everyday I see guys wearing flip flops and shorts with motorized backpack sprayers engulfed in a cloud of toxic chemicals fumigating the crops. I have
read the labels on the left over containers and they are extremely toxic substances with graphic warning labels. Twice we have personally had to rush
workers to the Centro de Salud after being overcome by pesticides. Very seldom do you see these workers wearing any sort of protective gear. Chiles
are the worst, they must be sprayed every 5 days or picuros will ruin the crop. All the washing in the world will not remove these chemicals. We try
and eat organic when possible but some of the crops here are near impossible to grow without pesticides. I worry about the future health of these
mostly young ag workers who apply these toxic substances on a daily basis. I know some older farmers who have serious health problems that they
suspect are from applying pesticides, they have been told to limit their exposure so they let their kids do the fumigating now. It really is very sad
to watch.
[Edited on 2-7-2010 by monoloco]
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Just so we don't cause more confusion Loco one; your caveat should be "Dont eat anything anywhere around Pescadero/Todos Santos". Or perhaps I should
explain that over on the SOC side of the peninsula, if I have been taking in all those poisons for 15 years without a let up, it has somehow had
miraculous results -- my doc says I'm in better shape now than I was when I got here. I will NOT stop eating chilis because of your post. Say, hows
the crime over that way? These people need all the warnings they can get.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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Personally, I don't worry so much about consuming the pesticides in vegetables, I love chiles and eat them all the time, the amount of chemicals we
are exposed to are minimal compared with the workers who apply them. I'm not trying to scare anyone, but when you state that most of the agriculture
here is organic you are just plain wrong, most of the guys around here are pure chemical farmers. My concerns are more with the safety of the workers
who are heavily exposed to these chemicals on a daily basis. As for the crime situation, it hasn't really changed that much in the 25 years that I've
been here. There are probably more thieves now but there are also more people to rob so it works out about the same.
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dtutko1
Nomad
Posts: 341
Registered: 8-26-2009
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Iflyfish has it right in my opinion. I would add one tool. We use a salad spinner to get off excess water from our greens. Havn't been able to find
one here for friends w/concerns, but in 10 year have not had any more few gurgles in my stomach. I take probiotics which contain acidophilis whenever
my stomach feels upset.
Dorado Don
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mulegemichael
Super Nomad
Posts: 2310
Registered: 12-24-2007
Location: sequim,wa. and mulege
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Mood: up on step
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there's a couple of HUGE organic ranchos here in mulege that ship all their produce to trader joes in the u.s....we're lucky enough to have a worker
here that has an "in" there...he brings us all the organic goodies we want/need..
dyslexia is never having to say you\'re yrros.
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13052
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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it is so difficult to pin down what gives people the trots...many blame the water....or the food(which is rinsed in the water)....and ya just never
know what the heck does it. I have been told that mixing beer like tecate then a pacifico gives you the runs...some people cant tolerate tecate but
can drink tecate light (god forbid)...margaritas are very acidic and can turn your stomach when combined with certain foods and other beverages.
my worst food poisoning has been from what I think was bad mayo and cheese...dairy products sitting out too long on the mainland....ewwww.
People worry about veggies being rinsed in bottled water and ice is generally bottled water... but the dishes are still washed in tap water!!
I very very rarely get sick...except from margaritas...but after many years of living off the grid in perhaps not so hygenic places...dirt is my
friend and I believe I have developed pretty good immunities. I think overcleanliness can be bad for you...all those toxic cleaning products cant be
good for your body.
My point is that you can get sick from LOTS of different things.
One of my dreams for Asuncion is that some expat will start an organic market garden...there would be a long line of customers. I helped our friends
get one going here out on their ranch and just before they harvested...the cows broke the fence down and devoured the whole darn thing...dang! Maybe
we can all cooperate in making a communal garden?
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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Want to address one point in Shari's post. Washing dishes and tableware in tap water. Fact is that virtually all of the nasty microbes that may sicken
folks need moisture to survive. Thus, if dishes are cleaned completely, and allowed to dry, there should not be anything left that could cause
illness.
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rob
Senior Nomad
Posts: 509
Registered: 10-19-2004
Location: Pacific Coast, BCS
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Monoloco - totally with you on this one. Our local ejido is a big veggie producer, and the soil is so swamped with highly toxic chemicals that nothing
lives except the unfortunate plants. I wouldn't eat a vegetable from there if my life depended on it (and I am not a fanatic organico either).
The trouble is, just like Imperial Valley - if you don't swamp the crop with pesticides, the bugs eat everything. Here at the ranch all our produce is
organic, but we are not doing it for a living either, so we can afford to take the high road (and the losses). I know several ejidatarios who have
given up on their produce lots because they simply can't afford the investment in chemicals any more.
Interesting Osprey - we live up the road from TS, and the one damn thing that won't grow very well here is chilis!
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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I am totally blown away by how much chemical use has increased here in the last 20 years. During the growing season I can look out and see at least 4
or 5 guys with backpack sprayers every morning. There are some organic farms here but as far as I know it is impossible to grow chiles here
organically. The bugs may win in the end though, my wife just cut open a chile that had a picudo in it, maybe they are developing a resistance to the
chemicals.
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