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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
Ah, thanks for the explanation DK.
I don't often follow the historical posts so I probably missed it - not really my thing. |
 David please! You know darn well that even if you had discovered artifacts
there you would still downplay it and still post all about where how and who, you can't help yourself. Just like you do with your right-wing crap.
Truth is you don't really know if that old wall holds historical significance or not. Do you?
Diver, David is always right according to him.
Who said there is no water there, David?
btw, those rocks all over Baja with art on them are just rocks. |
Wow, this does get wearisome------------I can testify that David K is 100% correct on this matter, and I KNOW that David has talked to the Lead
Archaeologist for this area as he is a personal aquaintenance of mine, and I have talked with him on this specific subject many times, and worked with
him for many years. I spent my entire career involved with, and enforcing archaeological laws (what few there are) in addition to other "resource"
laws as a Ranger, and can say that in my opinion what David is doing, and has done, with his promotions and posts is exactly what I would be doing if
I had the knowledge that David does. I applaud his efforts and consider him invaluable to this NOMADS board.
This constant criticism of the good work that David does really dismays me, and is beyond my understanding. 
Barry
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20355
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
in my opinion what David is doing, and has done, with his promotions and posts is exactly what I would be doing if I had the knowledge that David
does. I applaud his efforts and consider him invaluable to this NOMADS board.
Barry |
2 wrongs don't make a right.
publication of location data for unprotected cultural sites is irresponsible, because it aids looters. publication of location data is only ok if
artifacts are protected from looting. i read DK's blog on the site and it is apparent that DK has no knowledge if site is protected or vulnerable, so
he should not be publicizing location data.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Protect it from who or from what? It is sites that are unknown that get damaged!
If nobody saw it and reported it, then it would be like it never exicted! At least us history buffs have something we can ponder, and maybe figure an
answer to?
The known mission sites are crumbling before your eyes... and what are you doing about it? At least I am showing what it looks like when I visit these
sites! I wish there were more old photos!
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mtgoat666
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 20355
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Protect it from who or from what? It is sites that are unknown that get damaged!
If nobody saw it and reported it, then it would be like it never exicted! |
dk, sometimes you blather nonsense 
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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bite me
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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MtGoat--------what you advocate makes you a card-carrying member of the FREEZER CLUB.---------just freeze everything in place, until it disappears
"naturally" with only the "select few" having the priviledge of viewing it. How selfish is that???? This "club" also advocates the "closing of the
desert" to all but themselves, back-packers, or a few accredited scientists, or even more bazaar stopping ANYBODY from seeing and appreciating our
public lands (which more often than not is what really happens).
Many, if not most, of the thousands of Archy sites "not revealed" by the "experts" will simply disappear thru natural weathering without EVER being
inventoryed, let alone analysed scientifically. In my book, that is selfish, anti-social, and borders on a crime----------In my opinion, David's
largely right in that the more that see a site, and at least partially understand and appreciate it, the better off mankind in general will be, and
the site will survive in photos and memories.
Having said that, I do admit that some certain few sites are so valuable in the unique artifacts found there and what they will possibly reveal, that
they are worth "hiding" until proper inventory and scientific study can be accomplished. But the huge majority of sites are NOT unique, and should be
promoted to the public in order for the better understanding and appreciation by as many as possible-------if for no other reason than to enrich their
lives with the wonder of it all.
Barry
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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Fair enough Barry. Could you get that reputable and responsible fellow you know to join us and let us all know here that he has studied and deemed
that spot "archelogically insignificant".
I would feel much more comfortable knowing that INAH and the Mexican archealogical society and the American research scientist(s) have done a through
survey and evaluations of that particular site.
I have seen other papers and maps detailing other known sites in the area. Remember it wasn't I who proposed it was an ancient wall. Wasn't it one of
your mentors David?
I was shocked when you (along with some others)
decided that it was of no importance. Especially since the type and age of the structure appeared old, oddly designed and suspiciously placed. You
pushed those ideas on everyone. I'm just here to help support you actually because I still believe all those ideas and notions you had about the
place.
They seem(ed) plausible to me.
So you get me all excited about the "Lost Mission" then you claim it's nothing and protest my attempt(s) to know more. I still feel the place has
merit and should be professionally scoped out. Please direct me to the source of your proclamation and a science paper or study to back it up.
That isn't too much to offer since you are so adament about the whole thing. I just need to be satisfied that your current determination holds water.
I wouldn't go knocking down those walls if they were truely important would you?
We are not enemies David, paz.
FYI Barry I have appreciated much of David' work and have complimented him many times over the years, you should know that.
Thanks in advance
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
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Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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LYM
Junior Nomad
Posts: 26
Registered: 2-3-2010
Member Is Offline
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Thanks guys, being new to this site I'm gaining quite an education on things and this has truly been an entertaining conversation string. I
particularly enjoyed Sharks sarcastic outbursts and David I truly appreciate your helpfulness and sharing of information both on this site and your
own.
I do however know first hand how great places do get ruined by too many tourists with a lack of respect for the environment having lived in one of
BC's formerly most well kept secrets for 15 years until our neighbors from Alberta decided to take it over and overun the place. Now many of the
places that we used to camp at and have all to ourselves for a weekend are overrun with ATVs all over the place, broken glass on the ground, grafiti
on the rocks, things burnt down...so there's trade-offs to everything.
Anyway, good to be part of this site now and thanks for the info.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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Thanks for the er, compliment LYM? I have a sister named Lynn.
So very true though, those Canucks ruin every neighborhood! JOKE!
......and welcome Oceanus and yourselves.!
.......and did you mean like "neighbors" to the north or are you a Canucklian as well?
[Edited on 2-11-2010 by Sharksbaja]
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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now that's funny!!
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
bite me |
tell it how it is.
i knew you had it in you DK!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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LYM
Junior Nomad
Posts: 26
Registered: 2-3-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
Thanks for the er, compliment LYM? I have a sister named Lynn.
So very true though, those Canucks ruin every neighborhood! JOKE!
......and welcome Oceanus and yourselves.!
.......and did you mean like "neighbors" to the north or are you a Canucklian as well?
[Edited on 2-11-2010 by Sharksbaja] |
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LYM
Junior Nomad
Posts: 26
Registered: 2-3-2010
Member Is Offline
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Yes am 100% Canuck from BC and you may be right about some neighborhoods but that's definitely not a trait exclusive to Canadians. thanks for the
welcome and it was meant as a compliment by the way.
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marv sherrill
Nomad
Posts: 464
Registered: 11-18-2003
Member Is Offline
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way to hijack a thread everyone.....
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by marv sherrill
way to hijack a thread everyone..... |
Marv, I talked to you in person last year regarding the area since I consider you the Nomad expert on Las Animas... But, perhaps for the rest of the
gang... if you care to answer one or both of these?
1) What is the water source for the few locals who live there... and they may be seasonal residents, correct?
2) Is it an educational benefit to show other people/ students the walls there so they can ponder their purpose and perhaps discover why they were
built or who built them. OR, should nobody but a few elites know they exist, and if people see the wall and ask to look at it, should we tell them no,
it is too fragile a rock wall for you to get any closer?
You are a professional educator, a long time visitor to Las Animas, and a Baja buff... Your opinion matters.
Muchas Gracias!
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
Member Is Offline
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Wouldn't this happen to the publicized wall left unattended?
... and shouldn't the person publishing it's whereabouts be responsible that this doesn't occur before doing so?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
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[Edited on 2-12-2010 by Skipjack Joe]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Igor, that is not a historic mission or petroglyph site... and since it was given no special value to preserve and appreciate or appeared on well
known web sites (until now)... look what happens, because modern 'free-expression' society raises children to have no respect for (in the above case)
a religious shrine.
That looks like the new location for La Virgen, along Hwy. 1. I hope it isn't the original about 2 miles east, on the old road.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by marv sherrill
way to hijack a thread everyone..... |
Marv, I talked to you in person last year regarding the area since I consider you the Nomad expert on Las Animas... But, perhaps for the rest of the
gang... if you care to answer one or both of these?
1) What is the water source for the few locals who live there... and they may be seasonal residents, correct?
2) Is it an educational benefit to show other people/ students the walls there so they can ponder their purpose and perhaps discover why they were
built or who built them. OR, should nobody but a few elites know they exist, and if people see the wall and ask to look at it, should we tell them no,
it is too fragile a rock wall for you to get any closer?
You are a professional educator, a long time visitor to Las Animas, and a Baja buff... Your opinion matters.
Muchas Gracias! |
Wait a sec! I never inferred any of that elite stuff. I only wanted to make sure you were acting as a prudent visitor by not promoting a potentially
important site. You have determined there is nothing of significance mainly because you spent a couple hours there. I contest your authority on the
place, sorry.
You also make the claim that it isn't because of what a professor said. I hope that his determination was based upon actual science or was it of
conjecture.
The fact that you made that pronouncement so shortly after my visual and your physical discovery of the plateau made me thinkj that no actual ground
study was done after the discovery. That is what iI would like to know.
Can I assume that there hasn't been or if there was point me to it so I won't keep crawling up yer arse every time the place is mentioned.
BTW If you look closely with Google Earth you will see an area that has much more green growth than the surrounding features. That usually occurs
when subsurface water is available.
It would be terrible to see that bay developed.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
I am curious.
How many times have you two played out this fun time?
Does it ever end? |
No, because few ever change their mind no matter what "facts" are presented to back up what one says.
Human nature, I suppose, but it makes progress difficult and tedious.
Barry
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65410
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by marv sherrill
way to hijack a thread everyone..... |
Marv, I talked to you in person last year regarding the area since I consider you the Nomad expert on Las Animas... But, perhaps for the rest of the
gang... if you care to answer one or both of these?
1) What is the water source for the few locals who live there... and they may be seasonal residents, correct?
2) Is it an educational benefit to show other people/ students the walls there so they can ponder their purpose and perhaps discover why they were
built or who built them. OR, should nobody but a few elites know they exist, and if people see the wall and ask to look at it, should we tell them no,
it is too fragile a rock wall for you to get any closer?
You are a professional educator, a long time visitor to Las Animas, and a Baja buff... Your opinion matters.
Muchas Gracias! |
Wait a sec! I never inferred any of that elite stuff. I only wanted to make sure you were acting as a prudent visitor by not promoting a potentially
important site. You have determined there is nothing of significance mainly because you spent a couple hours there. I contest your authority on the
place, sorry.
You also make the claim that it isn't because of what a professor said. I hope that his determination was based upon actual science or was it of
conjecture.
The fact that you made that pronouncement so shortly after my visual and your physical discovery of the plateau made me thinkj that no actual ground
study was done after the discovery. That is what iI would like to know.
Can I assume that there hasn't been or if there was point me to it so I won't keep crawling up yer arse every time the place is mentioned.
BTW If you look closely with Google Earth you will see an area that has much more green growth than the surrounding features. That usually occurs
when subsurface water is available.
It would be terrible to see that bay developed. |
Corky, it is some walls, some rock circles, a scraggly palm tree and it is right on the road to Bahia Las Animas that anyone can see... and it looked
the same 43 years after the first photos were PUBLISHED in 1966.
Now, I can only presume that the site is known or not considered special enough to examine more. That is after I talked with Dr. Ritter who has
published papers on Las Animas archeology sites. INAH is way understaffed and financed to even think of them doing anything with so many known sites
left unprotected (like many missions in Baja). If this was an established mission site, being rock and not adobe makes it about as protected as it
will ever be.
I reported the details on Nomad and Discover Baja because it is interesting to some Baja fans... and because Choral Pepper was so well liked by her
readers, it was some closure to her spirit of adventure and wanting to go back there. There is no harm that can come to the site from any Baja Nomads.
The damage will come from locals, should they want to build houses on that hill... and keeping my story off the Internet won't have any affect on
that... it will only deny a few more from enjoying an interesting place before it is destroyed. It is too interesting to people like us to not share.
Because it isn't on the bay, I doubt if anything will happen there for hundreds of years. Have you even gone there since I went? In fact, I know of
two Nomads that planned to visit it but at the last moment, plans changed (Neal Johns and Phil C). It just isn't that big of a magnet to most. even as
much as I put into the story or your bringing it back up over and over.
DESERT MAGAZINE, JULY 1966:
2009:
Really, is this little wall worth so much fuss?
Have a great day Corky and everyone else!
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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David we already have read this stuff over and over. Since it's "just" a rock wall that is unimportant please tell us how old it is and who built it.
Thanks and have a happy Valentines Day.
Tag......your it.....
[Edited on 2-12-2010 by Sharksbaja]
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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