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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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The monk's robe in Diane's photos - wow - spooky. When I saw it I immediately thought
INQUISITOR
Did monks perform those prestigious tasks or were they the domain of priests? The Inquistion did make it to Mexico, I don't know how many people were
burned alive tied to a stake because they refused to join the team.
Something that has always bothered me about those old missions. I don't visit them.
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UnoMas
Nomad
Posts: 328
Registered: 2-8-2008
Location: East Cape
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Mood: Great
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David,
I have to agree with Diane on this one. You have taken to jumping on everything she posts in some form or another or useing your right wing politics
to get her going, why not quit that BS, she seems to have taken to higher ground.
We that live or spend several months out of every year in Baja sometimes see things that the weekend warriors don't or doesn't bother. Imagine every
single day dealing where someone has their hand out for money, even coming to your house for some donation or another. Why not just let people be
people and not try to correct every thing they post and if you can't play nice just don't play
Diane thanks for the great photo's.....
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
That Catholic lady, Huh. Its all her fault and you don't even know her. You dnt like Catholics now?
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Of course I was 10 and they were priests, but what the heck! At least I could hold my booze!
I wonder how long before this post of Diana's post will come down to "Lefty attitudes" and the ruination of America.
 
[Edited on 3-6-2010 by soulpatch] |
Probably very soon
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
Posts: 15939
Registered: 11-8-2004
Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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Mood: Everchangin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by soulpatch
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
That Catholic lady, Huh. Its all her fault and you don't even know her. You dnt like Catholics now?
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Of course I was 10 and they were priests, but what the heck! At least I could hold my booze!
I wonder how long before this post of Diana's post will come down to "Lefty attitudes" and the ruination of America.
[Edited on 3-6-2010 by soulpatch] |
Probably very soon |
WTF?
i'm lefthanded!
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
The monk's robe in Diane's photos - wow - spooky. When I saw it I immediately thought
INQUISITOR
Did monks perform those prestigious tasks or were they the domain of priests? The Inquistion did make it to Mexico, I don't know how many people were
burned alive tied to a stake because they refused to join the team.
Something that has always bothered me about those old missions. I don't visit them. |
Yea, that robe does scream out. I tend to think more about some of the very strange friars who ran those missions. Some were very brutal and some
were very weird.
I always have conflicted feeling about the whole mission thing because of the reality of what happened back then. While I just love the beauty of
the building at San Borja there is always the question of at what human cost.
I am always glad when someone sees something that I saw when I took the photo. thanks
Diane
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k-rico
Super Nomad
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Location: Playas de Tijuana
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Interesting history:
"The Inquisition was never as virulent in Mexico as it was in Spain, where more than 4,000 people were burned at the stake. Many more were
imprisoned for the “Jewish Heresy.” Massacres were instigated that took thousands of lives. By contrast, between 1571 when the Inquisition was
established in Mexico and 1821 when it ended, only about 110 people were actually burned at the stake. Perhaps the same number died under torture or
in prison, either awaiting trial or after sentencing. There were no popular outcries against Jews. The Inquisition was imposed from Spain. It cannot
be blamed on Mexicans."
http://mexfiles.net/category/mexican-history-1575-1810-colon...
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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in the early 1800's weren't Mexicans a couple of generations removed from Spain? sorta like some present day Argentinians claiming to have no ties to
N-zi's????
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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this is becoming a dilema in remote areas where kids in particular are learning they can get cash from gringos. I have seen kids in our village go up
to visitors and say money money and hold their hands out...when I catch them, I always scold them...mala onda muchachos...OR ask them what they will
do for the money..."sure we'll give ya money if you wash our car" usaully does the trick. That way they are learning that they just cant ask for
money...if they ask and a gringo gives it to em...it's positive reinforcement for that bad behavior...so please dont do it.
Now, for a service this is different of course. In the case of things like escorting one to the highway or someplace...this is a service and should be
compensated. ONe good suggestion in mexico is to always ask FIRST what kind of compensation is expected...that way there are no surprises.
When someone says they will give you a ride somewhere...water taxi etc...check first. I have heard of fishermen charging nothing and charging like $60
just for a ride to the beach...so ya never know. A trip out to Vizcaino is generally $100 (not pesos) gas, wear and tear on the vehicle, beer, lunch
etc is expensive...so dont expect someone to just offer to take you for nothing...unless they are going anway in which case you should help with gas,
beer etc.
I do tire of tourists expecting locals to bend over backwards, running around for them, looking for car parts etc., taking time out of their day to
help and then hearing the tourist say..oh wow these people are sooo nice....yeah they are....but some kind of trade...not necessarily money would be
nice. In our village people do all kinds of wonderful "favours" and do not always expect compensation...it is just a subtle understaning that one good
turn deserves another and one day you WILL indeed return the favour somehow...so that is the way the culture works...but with this new phenomenon of
tourists who are here one day and gone the next...it is tricky as they most likely will not get compensated for their good deeds. Most people are
pretty good but alot of visitors are just ignorant of how things work...not cheap on purpose. It was OK when there were only a few visitors but with
the increase in tourism...things are changing.
I know...I know... they will have the good karma going for them....BUT...I'm just sayin...as tourism increases and they spend more and more time
helping out visitors...it becomes an issue.
I understand about Jose's family an their indiscretion talking about money matters...it does leave a bad taste in the mouth and next time I am there,
I will have a heart to heart with them about this....which may be a good idea for others...en buena onda plaktica con ellos...those of you who speak
spanish and know the family could do it in a nice way...offer some feedback and suggestions on improving their ways...help them improve and not just
dis them....remind them nicely or jokingly that you understand spanish and they need to be more discreet when discussing money issues.
Many years ago, we had a long discussion with Jose about tourism and all the services that they offer. I suggested that they needed to be up front and
just somehow let people know that donations are gladly accepted for services and the palapas etc. I prepared a flyer for them in english explaining
that one could make a dontation to the family for camping, cave paintings etc so that tourists would know. Before they were so shy and wouldnt solicit
donations...but with tourists...many times...if ya dont spell it out....they dont get it....they want to see prices on things. But they probably cant
really charge as they dont have a company, it's probably ejido land etc.
Jose asked how to go about collecting donations...they couldnt really put a price on things and would rather leave it to the guest to just leave a
donation....
Is this making any sense???
[Edited on 3-6-2010 by shari]
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k-rico
Super Nomad
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Location: Playas de Tijuana
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..."sure we'll give ya money if you wash our car"
perfect sense!
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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As I understand it from my visits there, Jose's real job is restoration. Would he run afoul of his employers if he starts charging tourists?
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Jose and family built the palapas and so it's probably Ok to "accept" dontations and maybe not "charge". I believe it's an ejido too so there are
issues there as well...it's a slippery slope.
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DianaT
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Since this is turning into ANOTHER thread of lecture to everyone on how they should behave, we are going back and removing our original post---as
Grover used to say, leave it an orphan.
We simply shared our experience and a few photos we liked, but we are sick of the lectures.
Thank you to those who simply looked and maybe enjoyed the quick trip and the photos.
John and Diane
[Edited on 3-6-2010 by DianaT]
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Not neccesary Diane. Your post made good points and had at least some people thinking.
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Since this is turning into ANOTHER thread of lecture to everyone on how they should behave, we are going back and removing our original post---as
Grover used to say, leave it an orphan.
We simply shared our experience and a few photos we liked, but we are sick of the lectures.
Thank you to those who simply looked and maybe enjoyed the quick trip and the photos.
John and Diane
[Edited on 3-6-2010 by DianaT] |
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64856
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Sorry for saying something based on my observations going there many times... I guess it depends on who you are or your attitude if you find people
eeking out a living at a tourist destination being 'distasteful' if they ask for a donation for their time with you. But, who really was asking or
directing Jose's kids?
What is true is that one's attitude will determin if you enjoy Baja or leave a good impression on the people there. You drive 22 miles over a bumpy
road to see a 209 year old church in the middle of nowhere, attitude could play a big roll in the experience.
What I was trying to say (without politics or name calling) was that the one line by Diane made it sound like Jose and his family were beggers or
annoying. I didn't say Diane lied, I believe her... it just wasn't too clear who was at fault for this 'feeling'.
For some balance on her experience, I just said that the lady (she mentioned, not Jose's wife) was the one asking the kids to get more money...
I metioned she was Catholic because that's why she was there... since Jose is not Catholic and was locked out of the mission for many years by the
priest in Guerrero Negro. That it may have been the same lady who asked us for donations in July. We went to visit Jose at his home afterwards and he
didn't ask for a thing... and never has before.
Okay Nomads... facts to think about... I just want you to make an intelligent decision about visiting San Borja, and not wave it off because Diane
reported her bad feelings about the place. Not all of us have had a bad time there, most who go there go back again and again...
The people of Baja are having a rough time too, with fewer of us going south.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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Thanks Ralph,
If people want to continue to lecture over and over again, that is OK, but we just don't want it to be a part of a thread that we open. As we are
just really sick and tired of it, and sick and tired of all the hypocrisy---something you pointed out in an earlier post.
For us, this thread is now closed.
Look forward to seeing you soon
Diane and John
[Edited on 3-6-2010 by DianaT]
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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For God's sake,
I made a choice to remove my photos, I answer a U2U, check back to see they if I got them removed ---and you do not have the common decency to leave
them gone.
I guess that is another area in which you are lacking, common decency.
I will ask the moderator to remove that part of your post and hope that he has the respect for others that you lack.
[Edited on 3-6-2010 by DianaT]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64856
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Are you recanting the stuff you said about Jose or did you remove your post to 'punish me' in some way (you know: oh look at wht David K made me do,
boo hoo)? This isn't grade school Diane, lets be adults here.
Photos gone? ... I only quoted you with my reply. Why wouldn't you want to show your photos anymore?
Do you want me to edit out the stuff you said about Jose's family in your quote?
Happy to help Diane!
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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DK
Do you give lessons on how to ruin a good post.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Are you recanting the stuff you said about Jose or did you remove your post to 'punish me' in some way (you know: oh look at wht David K made me do,
boo hoo)? This isn't grade school Diane, lets be adults here.
Photos gone? ... I only quoted you with my reply. Why wouldn't you want to show your photos anymore?
Do you want me to edit out the stuff you said about Jose's family in your quote?
Happy to help Diane! |
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64856
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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No, I give 'lessons' on the beauty of Baja through photos and accurate data in hopes to inspire fellow adventure seekers to find happiness there, as
well.
If I see data that differs with mine, I add mine, for balance not to put down the original words.
I have made an observation about places in Baja and another Nomad will post what he found there... and I don't get upset, say that person called me
names, and then remove all my photos...
It's about giving... not taking away, afterall. 
[Edited on 3-6-2010 by David K]
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Natalie Ann
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2819
Registered: 8-22-2003
Location: Berkeley
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David.... The pix belong to Diane and John.
She/they removed them.
You have no right to put them back. Period.
nena
Be yourself, everyone else is already taken.
.....Oscar Wilde
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