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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
OK, here's my political analysis on this. When Obama was elected he was overwhelmingly looked on favorably, but there was still a nagging suspicion
that he would be weak on terrorism. He lost a lot of political capital when the Ft. Hood massacre happened. He squandered away a lot more when the
Christmas underwear bomber got through the screening process. |
***************
none of these reflected badly on obama. the ft hood thing reflected badly on army command. the underwear bomber was a dufus, and he did not cause
any harm, and the only people with egg on their face are career intel people who were shown to be bumbling dolts.
[Edited on 3-15-2010 by BajaNomad]
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
| Quote: | Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
If this was a Narco murder of Americans I think they just really screwed-the-pooch. They will now be facing an even greater U.S. involvement against
them. |
That is not my reading of the situation. Mexico is very protectionist and will not allow the US to take an active role in policing Mexico. It is
political suicide for a Mexican president to invite US troops/police onto Mexican soil. The way I see it, the narcos targeted these people to force
the US to back off, which it will, as it cannot protect its people in Mexico. Take a look at the State Dept. order to families of US consulate
employees to beat it back to the US. I would expect even stronger travel warnings out shortly. This murder weakens the Mexican federal government,
which is exactly what the cartels want. I think it was a well planned move. |
I agree. Even my own family NOB called to show concern and ask if we were OK and "staying behind"- as if ALL Americans were ordered out of the
country.
One thing the USA can do is lock-down the border and maybe isolate Mexico diplomatically. Obama will not play nicey-nice anymore. There will be
pressure to move troops and secure the border. They just added six predator drones to the border. No more pussy-footing after this. Obama showed he
was serious by closing ALL the US consulates- not just the ones in the combat zones. He really didn't need to do that- he was making his first stand.
We all know Mexico will just continue to blame the USA for this because of it's drug consumption. Never mind that Mexico could enforce its northern
border with the same vigor it enforces the southern one. Even before this event Obama voiced human rights concerns about how the Mexican military was
handling this. Calderon is impotent and so is the next president. Everything at every level is flawed by institutionalized corruption. Macho Mexico
has lived by the sword, and may indeed fall on it and die.
So what is next, besides the obvious that Michelle Obama will likely cancel her highly-touted April trip to Mexico City? And what is up with these
loco-narcos who love their Mexico, but destroy it? Last week they stopped all the media coverage of them by killing those journalists. Now this. If
they love Mexico and their families- they have a funny way of showing it. Oh yeah... they are 30-something guys with no education, future, hope or
families... so what do they care.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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JESSE
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The fact is, crime in northern baja is down 70 to 80%. Whats happening in Juarez is a totally different thing.
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Bajahowodd
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So, are you saying this was an anomaly? Or is Juarez akin to Switzerland?
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
So, are you saying this was an anomaly? Or is Juarez akin to Switzerland? |
I am saying Juarez is very far away from here, and the players involved in that war have nothing to do with this area, i am as concerned about Juarez
as i am about crimes in Chiapas. Baja has entered a period of calm, many people where complaining about the violence here all the time, and now that
things have calmed down thanks to the efforst and lives of many people, now they are looking else.
I am not minimizing the crimes there, but they really don't have much to do with us here.
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Bajahowodd
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The problem as I see it, is that the sporadic episodes of violence seem to migrate. I posted today about more than a dozen bodies found in and around
Acapulco, some of which were beheaded. At the same time, hotel occupancy in Cancun hit 85% in February. My concern is if these nasty cartel guys are
nimble enough and resourceful enough to be purposely trying to extinguish the tourist business in order to strong arm the government.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
The fact is, crime in northern baja is down 70 to 80%. Whats happening in Juarez is a totally different thing. |
You thought La Paz was safe and didn't know El Teo was living near you. Right? Maybe you mean REPORTED crimes? But who wastes their time reporting
crime any more?
My neighbor had their US plated car stolen last night at the "Las Brisas" hotel. The went to file a report but the police would not take it because
the cop smelled alcohol on his breath. What did that have to do with his car being stolen. Why even bother trying to report a crime? Yesterday
Rosarito had armed men in fake uniforms robbing sores on the main blvd. Crime is down from what number? It could be down 95% and still not be safe.
Stats mean nothing anymore.
Rosarito looks like a war zone today. Camouflage-uniformed Marines everywhere. Why are they here today if less crime? Getting ready for the Benito
Juarez parade tomorrow? Giving the handful of Spring Breakers here a cool photo op to e-mail home?
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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arrowhead
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Just as I predicted, a new Mexico Travel Alert
| Quote: | http://www.enewspf.com/index.php?option=com_content&view...
"U.S. State Department Issues Travel Warning for Mexico
Sunday, 14 March 2010 15:14 Press Release Latest National News
Washington, D.C.--(ENEWSPF)--March 14, 2010. The Department of State has issued this Travel Warning to inform U.S. citizens traveling to and living
in Mexico of concerns about the security situation in Mexico, and that it has authorized the departure of the dependents of U.S. government personnel
from U.S. consulates in the Northern Mexican border cities of Tijuana, Nogales, Ciudad Juarez, Nuevo Laredo, Monterrey and Matamoros until April 12.
Family members of US Government personnel assigned to other areas of Mexico outside the Mexican border states are not affected by this departure
measure. This Travel Warning supercedes that of February 22, 2010, and announces the authorized departure of some dependents and updates security
incidents.
While millions of U.S. citizens safely visit Mexico each year (including tens of thousands who cross the land border daily for study, tourism or
business and nearly one million U.S. citizens who live in Mexico), violence in the country has increased. It is imperative that U.S. citizens
understand the risks in Mexico, how best to avoid dangerous situations, and who to contact if victimized. Common-sense precautions such as visiting
only legitimate business and tourist areas during daylight hours, and avoiding areas where prostitution and drug dealing might occur, can help ensure
that travel to Mexico is safe and enjoyable.
Recent violent attacks have prompted the U.S. Embassy to urge U.S. citizens to delay unnecessary travel to parts of Durango, Coahuila and Chihuahua
states(see details below) and advise U.S. citizens residing or traveling in those areas to exercise extreme caution. Drug cartels and associated
criminal elements have retaliated violently against individuals who speak out against them or whom they otherwise view as a threat to their
organizations. These attacks include the abduction and murder of two resident U.S. citizens in Chihuahua.
Violence Along the U.S. - Mexico Border
Mexican drug cartels are engaged in violent conflict - both among themselves and with Mexican security services - for control of narcotics trafficking
routes along the U.S.-Mexico border. To combat violence, the government of Mexico has deployed military troops throughout the country. U.S. citizens
should cooperate fully with official checkpoints when traveling on Mexican highways.
Some recent confrontations between Mexican authorities and drug cartel members have resembled small-unit combat, with cartels employing automatic
weapons and grenades. Large firefights have taken place in towns and cities across Mexico, but occur mostly in northern Mexico, including Ciudad
Juarez, Tijuana, Chihuahua City, Nogales, Matamoros, Reynosa and Monterrey. During some of these incidents, U.S. citizens have been trapped and
temporarily prevented from leaving the area. The U.S. Mission in Mexico currently restricts its U.S. government employees’ travel within the state of
Durango, the northwest quadrant of the state of Chihuahua and an area southeast of Ciudad Juarez, and all parts of the state of Coahuila south of
Mexican Highways 25 and 22 and the Alamos River. This restriction was implemented in light of a recent increase in assaults, murders, and kidnappings
in those three states.
The situation in northern Mexico remains fluid; the location and timing of future armed engagements cannot be predicted. Recently, the cities of
Durango and Gomez Palacio in the state of Durango, and the area known as “La Laguna” in the state of Coahuila, which includes the city of Torreon,
experienced sharp increases in violence. In late 2009 and early 2010, four visiting U.S. citizens were murdered in Gomez Palacio, Durango. These and
several other unsolved murders in the state of Durango have caused particular concern.
A number of areas along the border continue to experience a rapid growth in crime. Robberies, homicides, petty thefts, and carjackings have all
increased over the last year across Mexico, with notable spikes in Chihuahua, Sinaloa, and northern Baja California. Ciudad Juarez, Tijuana and
Nogales are among the cities that have experienced public shootouts during daylight hours in shopping centers and other public venues. Criminals have
followed and harassed U.S. citizens traveling in their vehicles in border areas including Nuevo Laredo, Matamoros, and Tijuana. Travelers on the
highways between Monterrey and other parts of Mexico to the United States (notably through Nuevo Laredo and Matamoros) have been targeted for robbery
and violence and have also inadvertently been caught in incidents of gunfire between criminals and Mexican law enforcement. Such incidents are more
likely to occur at night but may occur at any time.
The situation in the state of Chihuahua, specifically Ciudad Juarez, is of special concern. The U.S. Consulate General recommends that American
citizens defer non-essential travel to the Guadalupe Bravo area southeast of Ciudad Juarez and to the northwest quarter of the state of Chihuahua
including the city of Nuevo Casas Grandes and surrounding communities. From the United States, these areas are often reached through the Columbus,
NM, and Fabens and Fort Hanc-ck, TX, ports of entry. In both areas, American citizens have been victims of drug-related violence.
Mexican authorities report that more than 2,600 people were killed in Ciudad Juarez in 2009. Additionally, this city of 1.3 million people
experienced more than 16,000 car thefts and 1,900 carjackings in 2009. U.S. citizens should pay close attention to their surroundings while traveling
in Ciudad Juarez, avoid isolated locations during late night and early morning hours, and remain alert to news reports. Visa and other service
seekers visiting the Consulate are encouraged to make arrangements to pay for those services using a non-cash method.
U.S. citizens are urged to be alert to safety and security concerns when visiting the border region. Criminals are armed with a wide array of
sophisticated weapons. In some cases, assailants have worn full or partial police or military uniforms and have used vehicles that resemble police
vehicles. While most crime victims are Mexican citizens, the uncertain security situation poses serious risks for U.S. citizens as well. U.S.
citizen victims of crime in Mexico are urged to contact the consular section of the nearest U.S. consulate or Embassy for advice and assistance.
Contact information is provided at the end of this message.
Crime and Violence Throughout Mexico
U.S. citizens traveling throughout Mexico should exercise caution in unfamiliar areas and be aware of their surroundings at all times. Bystanders
have been injured or killed in violent attacks in cities across the country, demonstrating the heightened risk of violence in public places. In recent
years, dozens of U.S. citizens living in Mexico have been kidnapped and most of their cases remain unsolved. U.S. citizens who believe they are being
targeted for kidnapping or other crimes should notify Mexican law enforcement officials and the U.S. Embassy in Mexico City or the nearest U.S.
consulate as soon as possible. Any U.S. visitor who suspects they are a target should consider returning to the United States immediately. U.S.
citizens should be aware that many cases of violent crime are never resolved by Mexican law enforcement, and the U.S. government has no authority to
investigate crimes committed in Mexico.
U.S. citizens should make every attempt to travel on main roads during daylight hours, particularly the toll ("cuota") roads, which generally are more
secure. When warranted, the U.S. Embassy and consulates advise their employees as well as private U.S. citizens to avoid certain areas, abstain from
driving on certain roads because of dangerous conditions or criminal activity, or recommend driving during daylight hours only. When this happens,
the Embassy or the affected consulate will alert the local U.S. citizen Warden network and post the information on their respective websites,
indicating the nature of the concern and the expected time period for which the restriction will remain in place.
U.S. citizen visitors are encouraged to stay in the well-known tourist areas. Travelers should leave their itinerary with a friend or family member
not traveling with them, avoid traveling alone, and check with their cellular phone service providers prior to departure to confirm that their cell
phone is capable of roaming on GSM or 3G international networks. Do not display expensive-looking jewelry, large amounts of money, or other valuable
items. Travelers to remote or isolated hunting or fishing venues should be aware of their distance from appropriate medical, law enforcement, and
consular services in an emergency situation." |
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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Hook
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Posts: 9009
Registered: 3-13-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
The fact is, crime in northern baja is down 70 to 80%. Whats happening in Juarez is a totally different thing. |
You thought La Paz was safe and didn't know El Teo was living near you. Right? Maybe you mean REPORTED crimes? But who wastes their time reporting
crime any more?
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EXACTLY! Why bother referring to crime statistics in Mexico? They bear no resemblance to the level of actual crime on the streets.
[Edited on 3-15-2010 by Hook]
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arrowhead
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Registered: 5-5-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
************* |
Dear Goat. I just want to let you know that you can disagree with somebody's opinion without calling them names.
I'm just saying, you know, in case the moderator would like to enforce the rules.
[Edited on 3-15-2010 by BajaNomad]
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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Bajahowodd
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Posts: 9274
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Softball, Strangely
Actually, the US could have issued a much sterner warning, such as saying just don't go. To a certain extent, I think Mexico dodged a bullet this
time.
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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Hook
EXACTLY! Why bother referring to crime statistics in Mexico? They bear no isemblance to the level of actual crime on the streets.
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Hook, you're my new best friend.
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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arrowhead
Banned
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Actually, the US could have issued a much sterner warning, such as saying just don't go. To a certain extent, I think Mexico dodged a bullet this
time. |
The average person reading that alert would interpret it as saying, "Just don't go."
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
************** |
Dear Goat. I just want to let you know that you can disagree with somebody's opinion without calling them names.
I'm just saying, you know, in case the moderator would like to enforce the rules. |
I'm thinking that you two, along with Davidk and DianaT should go to couples' counseling.
[Edited on 3-15-2010 by BajaNomad]
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arrowhead
Banned
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I'm thinking that you two, along with Davidk and DianaT should go to couples' counseling. |
Only if Josie sits on my lap.
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
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Maybe, just maybe, BajaGringo can arrange it! Just sayin'.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
The fact is, crime in northern baja is down 70 to 80%. Whats happening in Juarez is a totally different thing. |
You thought La Paz was safe and didn't know El Teo was living near you. Right? Maybe you mean REPORTED crimes? But who wastes their time reporting
crime any more?
My neighbor had their US plated car stolen last night at the "Las Brisas" hotel. The went to file a report but the police would not take it because
the cop smelled alcohol on his breath. What did that have to do with his car being stolen. Why even bother trying to report a crime? Yesterday
Rosarito had armed men in fake uniforms robbing sores on the main blvd. Crime is down from what number? It could be down 95% and still not be safe.
Stats mean nothing anymore.
Rosarito looks like a war zone today. Camouflage-uniformed Marines everywhere. Why are they here today if less crime? Getting ready for the Benito
Juarez parade tomorrow? Giving the handful of Spring Breakers here a cool photo op to e-mail home? |
yadda, yadda, yadda!!! look, if you want to, stay home, fortunatelly, theres still plenty of smart people who actually look at facts and not personal
opinions or media hype.
I was one of the ones that condemned the violence up north when it was happening, but now that its down, i am also being fair and expressing my
support for those that worked to get it down. But seems that those that where just bashing Mexico out of personal problems, won't admit things got
better no matter what. Its not fun anymore for them.
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JESSE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3370
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
The problem as I see it, is that the sporadic episodes of violence seem to migrate. I posted today about more than a dozen bodies found in and around
Acapulco, some of which were beheaded. At the same time, hotel occupancy in Cancun hit 85% in February. My concern is if these nasty cartel guys are
nimble enough and resourceful enough to be purposely trying to extinguish the tourist business in order to strong arm the government.
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This is not a James Bond movie, the cartels don't operate that way, they go to war only when their competitors attack them. In this case, whats
happening in Acapulco is the result of the death this past December of Arturo Beltran Leyva, his cartel is disintegrating and the two sides are
fighting for control of their turf.
The cartels don't give a rats ass if the location is Acapulco or Torreon.
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Bajahowodd
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I appreciate your opinion. Thanks.
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
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Location: Rosarito Beach
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Actually, the US could have issued a much sterner warning, such as saying just don't go. To a certain extent, I think Mexico dodged a bullet this
time. |
Well- maybe just grazed. If the attack had happened at Consulate, instead of at an off-site party, it would be headline news. The narcos know just
how far to push...kill them, but not at the "office."
And this is only a 30 day advisory, it is not mandatory. It's just to make a point. The USA is ticked-off, but what does all Mexico combined have
left to throw at Juarez to fix it? The official US reply is telling Calderon "take our help now, or else". As you mentioned- they could have said
"don't go"
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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