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Cypress
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Location: on the bayou
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Amazing, After traveling halfway around the world to lay their eggs, the least we can do is see that someone doesn't run over 'em with some sort of
vehicle or dig 'em up and eat 'em.
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classicbajabronco
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How can you be a candidate for a PHD? It sounds like her having a Thesis, she is a student in grad school.
Is this "Candidate" the one who told you turtles lay their eggs below the high tide?
[Edited on 5-25-2010 by classicbajabronco]
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tiotomasbcs
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Location: El Pescadero
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that said, Gnukid, what is your new hypothesis today? Not arguing apples & oranges, but you seen to have spoken prematurely. None of us , I'm
sure like the idea of motorized vehicles on the beach. I own a quad but ride only on roads & in the arroyos! Used to ride on the beach tho. Tio ps laid a few eggs, too!
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tiotomasbcs
........ None of us , I'm sure like the idea of motorized vehicles on the beach. I own a quad but ride only on roads & in the arroyos!
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There are several here who ride quads, drive trucks, etc. on the beaches. ----
Maybe someday the law will be enforced in more areas.
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Bajahowodd
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Back and forth. And back again. Fact is that anytime anyone chooses to drive off road vehicles there will be a degradation of the environment. I'm not
looking to pick a fight with quad drivers, or anyone else who drive off-road vehicles, but it just seems to me that anyone who gets their jollies
doing such, has a responsibility to do the least harm possible. Otherwise, you're just a ******.
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classicbajabronco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Back and forth. And back again. Fact is that anytime anyone chooses to drive off road vehicles there will be a degradation of the environment. I'm not
looking to pick a fight with quad drivers, or anyone else who drive off-road vehicles, but it just seems to me that anyone who gets their jollies
doing such, has a responsibility to do the least harm possible. Otherwise, you're just a ******. |
That being said....anyone who chooses to drive a car in general negatively effects the environment...Does that make them&^%$#$*'s as well?
and this does happen to be an offroad forum, so you may start a few fights...
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ecomujeres
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Registered: 9-10-2006
Location: Mulege, BCS & Oakland, CA
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In reading Gnukid's post about eggs being laid around the tide line, he didn't specifically say turtle eggs. Many species of marine animals do lay
their eggs around the tide lines (fish and invertebrates).
Turtles do lay above the high tide mark, and when the female chooses poorly, or an unexpected storm causes surges above the high tide mark, nests are
usually lost because the wet sand impedes oxygen exchange between the air in the sand and the egg. Running over nests in vehicles also compacts soil,
decreasing the O2 available, as above, and makes it more difficult for the hatchlings to dig their way to the surface.
Mexican Law: No vehicles within the federal zone of any beach.
Should it matter if it's enforced or not, if it's the law?
Just because others break the law, does that mean that we should break it as well?
I am always amazed when people know that some activity is illegal in Mexico and yet still ask how they might best get away with breaking that law.
Incredible.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by classicbajabronco
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by tiotomasbcs
If people would only drive their quads below the low tide line it wouldn't be too bad. But they don't! Gringos & Mexicans alike race all over
the dunes, vegetation & other areas areas destroying the natural beauty. A few people always screw it up for the majority!!In Pescadero we
have full size pick-ups that drive up on the beach, pic nic, and then drive away leaving all their trash! Difficult & dangerous to confront
people so we pick it up. Except diapers! I draw the line with diapers!! Car ads on TV & magazines always show pick-ups on the beach. Bad
example. |
Below the median low tide line is a critical area for sea life to flourish, eggs are laid here, crabs live here, birds feed here.
Actually if you look at most beach areas in BCS, though not all, when they do draw the lines for properties, they take into account the federal zone
which is 20 meters from the median high tide line and above that is often a designated 7 meter zone for transit of vehicles and boats and concessions
and so forth. If there is no 7 meter zone there begins either a concession zones or property zones-it varies based on the land. In between the
properties will be periodic arroyo accesses. This is not always the case but it started out often in this manner as far as every beach front titling
document I have seen on the sea of cortez in BCS and often on the pacific. It depends.
It is legal and safe to use the beach accesses and the 7 meter zone when available and designated for vehicle traffic but one should not drive in the
tidal zone or the federal zone not use the beach for off road sport.
There are some beaches where it is common to use the entire beach for driving such as many hard pack areas and others where it is not common, you
should respect the common use. Generally one should consider whether you need to use the beach to transit or not for your purpose and avoid it if
possible. And you should consider the type of vehicle you have and what affect it would have. There are huge 750 4x4 quads and 2 wheel 250s which are
quite different.
Nowadays if you need to burn some gas in your wheeler or quad it advised to use arroyo trails which are often designated for such activity. This is
really where the problem lies, there are may gringos who love to burn up and down the beach starting at 5am in a manner which is illegal and against
common courtesy with no purpose other than to make noise and destroy the beach-they receive the wrath of the community.
It is best however that you don't get into a conflict with someone over this practice since it will result in a confrontation and you may be in the
wrong in specific cases that we have recently seen where aggressive gringos were put in jail for trying to stop some peoplefrom using quads in the 7
meter 'malecon' zone and on beach accesses as opposed to specifically in the tidal zone.
Because of recent conservation efforts there is an increase in sealife on reefs and we see more turtles this year which is demonstrable due to reduced
abusive practices. |
I have never ever in 7 years seen a turtle lay their eggs below the tide line...I have no idea where you could even come up with this from. You try
digging a 2-3' hole in the wet hard sand in the tide zone and see how long it takes you with the waves continuously filling in the hole....Turtles lay
their eggs way way up the beach in the soft deep sand far away from the waves....If turtles laid their eggs in this zone....there would be no such
thing as sea turtles because they would be extinct as all the eggs would all get washed out to sea.....ever notice how much the beach is continuously
changing in the tidal zone.....with a change in swell direction it's not uncommon to lose 10' of beach...
And how in the hell would a quad driving on the beach have any effect on the sealife on a submerged reef |
Bronco, Seems to be a misunderstanding, I don't see anywhere where anyone said turtles lay their eggs below the tide line, however, ridges in the
sand at lower levels from quads could impair the progress of newborns to return to the water.
The low tide area is an area where sea life does inhabit, crabs, crustacions, varieties types of sea life use the area to feed and breed, spawn. Quads
or vehicles should not assume that low tide is a great time to burn up and down the beach.
Perhaps its worthwhile to read the posts again, consider the concerns, and consider driving above the federal zone as mentioned here.
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classicbajabronco
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sorry I missed all the fun....just got back from a ride down the beach on the quad...in the lowtide zone...as guess what...my tracks are no longer to
be seen...as the next wave washed them away.
as far as the crabs..when I first came here the locals were running down the crabs with quads...then supergluing them to hooks for bait.....and you
know what....it works great!!!
When in rome..........
Gnukid wrote:
Quads or vehicles should not assume that low tide is a great time to burn up and down the beach.
You are giving quads and vehicles way too much credit in this statement...do you really think a quad or a vehicle has a brain and can actually assume
anything or were you just personifying them for for the fun of it?
[Edited on 5-26-2010 by classicbajabronco]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
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Ah, the high and mighty liberals... love to dictate their ideas of right and wrong but always have an 'out' for themselves, when caught doing those
things.
'Party members' of socialist governments eat well, have nice things and travel to other countries for medical treatment (because their government
health care is crap)... all the things they deny the masses. They also go to lavish parties, vacation and play golf while national disasters go
untreated. The press remains silent... unlike when a Republican was president!
Liberalism is a mental disorder.
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 7-2-2006
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Cute lil' Bronco buddy, I was down at Balandra Bay and this Bronco guy really wanted to show off along the shallows with his girlfriend and then he
drove up over the dune, his cute lil yellow Bronco high-sided and got stuck with all four tires spinning. Didn't work. We pulled him out with a real
bronco loco, not the little kid kind. Was that you?
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classicbajabronco
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nope....I would never drive my rig in the shallows...that is just plain low. And yellow's for sissy's.....
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classicbajabronco
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and besides I don't think I could hi-center mine if I tried. unless I tried driving over a pyramid
is there a reason you are on the offroad forum gnukid...you seem pretty anti-offroad vehicle to me
[Edited on 5-26-2010 by classicbajabronco]
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by classicbajabronco
sorry I missed all the fun....just got back from a ride down the beach on the quad...in the lowtide zone...as guess what...my tracks are no longer to
be seen...as the next wave washed them away.
as far as the crabs..when I first came here the locals were running down the crabs with quads...then supergluing them to hooks for bait.....and you
know what....it works great!!!
When in rome..........
Quads or vehicles should not assume that low tide is a great time to burn up and down the beach.
You are giving quads and vehicles way too much credit in this statement...do you really think a quad or a vehicle has a brain and can actually assume
anything or were you just personifying them for for the fun of it?
[Edited on 5-26-2010 by classicbajabronco] |
Have fun bronco, just be respectfull of others. Ride slowly
near others, avoid riding between people sitting on the beach and the water (go around them giving a wide berth). Smile and wave. Don't worry about
the turtles, you won't have any negative effect on them.
If you do see any baby turtles scurrying toward the water just remember.....they make great bait....dt
[Edited on 5-26-2010 by dtbushpilot]
[Edited on 5-26-2010 by dtbushpilot]
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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classicbajabronco
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dtbushpilot wrote:
Have fun bronco, just be respectfull of others. Ride slowly near others, avoid riding between people sitting on the beach and the water (go around
them giving a wide berth). Smile and wave. Don't worry about the turtles, you won't have any negative effect on them.
If you do see any baby turtles scurrying toward the water just remember.....they make great bait....dt
great Idea...... on the turtles for bait....I bet a guy could clean up on the pargo...Think I should try superglue or should i hook them thru the eye
sockets like a ballyho
And I am always respectful to all I see on the beach, I clean up litter when I see it, even diapers don't scare me!!
I even pull out the idiots who drive down on the beach in rental cars
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Ah, the high and mighty liberals... love to dictate their ideas of right and wrong but always have an 'out' for themselves, when caught doing those
things.
'Party members' of socialist governments eat well, have nice things and travel to other countries for medical treatment (because their government
health care is crap)... all the things they deny the masses. They also go to lavish parties, vacation and play golf while national disasters go
untreated. The press remains silent... unlike when a Republican was president!
Liberalism is a mental disorder. |
What are you talking about? This is just crazy nonsense---this thread is not about political philosophy, it is about Mexican Law.
Also about the fact that it is enforced in some areas and not in others.
Also about if one thinks they should follow the law even if it is not enforced.
Also about if others do it, should one follow the example.
Also about if someone agrees if the law is correct or not, which is really a mute question since it is Mexico and it is THEIR law, like it or not.
But you just can't resist throwing in one of your political tirades, can you.
This is about MEXICO and MEXICAN law --- and if people follow it or not, and how and why. It is not about political philosophy.
Take your nonsense to off-topic, please
[Edited on 5-26-2010 by DianaT]
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classicbajabronco
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Registered: 1-2-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
Cute lil' Bronco buddy, I was down at Balandra Bay and this Bronco guy really wanted to show off along the shallows with his girlfriend and then he
drove up over the dune, his cute lil yellow Bronco high-sided and got stuck with all four tires spinning. Didn't work. We pulled him out with a real
bronco loco, not the little kid kind. Was that you? |
shame on you gnukid for driving a real bronco loco on the beach...just think of all the turtles you maimed and crushed...and the crabs, the
crustacions, and all those eggs you are worried about a little quad smashing.
A quad weighs 600lbs....your real bronco loco weighs about 4000lbs....what in the hell were you thinking....or were you showing off to your boyfriend?
I did go back and reread the posts and found it funny that you didn't defend the "turtle" eggs part until ecomujere chimed in...as such I really think
you meant turtle eggs...
And now that you've found out that turtles lay their eggs above the high tide, you want us to drive in the federal zone which just so happens to be
the high tide zone where the turtles lay their eggs......are you trying to make us kill the turtles?
[Edited on 5-26-2010 by classicbajabronco]
[Edited on 5-26-2010 by classicbajabronco]
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ecomujeres
In reading Gnukid's post about eggs being laid around the tide line, he didn't specifically say turtle eggs. Many species of marine animals do lay
their eggs around the tide lines (fish and invertebrates).
Turtles do lay above the high tide mark, and when the female chooses poorly, or an unexpected storm causes surges above the high tide mark, nests are
usually lost because the wet sand impedes oxygen exchange between the air in the sand and the egg. Running over nests in vehicles also compacts soil,
decreasing the O2 available, as above, and makes it more difficult for the hatchlings to dig their way to the surface.
Mexican Law: No vehicles within the federal zone of any beach.
Should it matter if it's enforced or not, if it's the law?
Just because others break the law, does that mean that we should break it as well?
I am always amazed when people know that some activity is illegal in Mexico and yet still ask how they might best get away with breaking that law.
Incredible.
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Thank you for a well thought out statement on the fundamental point.. at least I thought so... perhaps we could call them undocumented riders?
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
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Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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I read this topic with a lot of laughing, as I have been on the beaches in Baja, Mainland Gulf and Pacific as well as the Atlantic side of Mainland
Mexico and have seen beach patrols, military, local government vehicles, and too many private vehicles to even try separating them as to their orgins.
All, repeat all were on the beaches driving so fast, some slow, some just checking out the lovely women on the beach (Really all of them we doing this
and still doing parts of their job,LOL).
I have not seen were the flowers did not grow back (just like trees do in forest fires), or where the beaches were impacted in any fashion. I drive
on the beach occassionally and right pass the army,beach patrol, and local government agencies on theat same beach to which I have never been told
anything is wrong or illegal. Would like to see the law. If I see it and read it then I will follow it, unless I am totally away from any Nomads who
would let everyone on this site know I broke the law they showed me.
Live by the biggest desert which all types of vehicle race up and down the dunes. Have people that have been doing this for over 40 years that I know
of and the same flowers and dunes height gets higher and higher each, so they are not disappearing. Have also gone to the dunes with kids teaching
them to ride and have safe fun. So, it has nothing todo with liking or not liking something if you have never really sampled it you are giving an
opinion. Later0================== Bajafun8777
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Diana T. You're right about the scofflaws.
David K. You're right about the liberal mindset.
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