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mojo_norte
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 2-14-2006
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I'm partial to Ford and Toyota but wouldn't hesitate to buy a new GM truck given the current value incentives and warranties.
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mojo_norte
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 2-14-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
The US taxpayers are keeping GM in operation, not in "business". They went out of business a few months ago. It's now on life support thanks to the
govt. One of those welfare programs. |
Thought we were talking cars - not politics 
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bonanza bucko
Senior Nomad
Posts: 587
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Airport Bum
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Mt Goat said:
"..that is silly, bucko. the bailout is a done deal, now it is in your interest to see GM succeed, so you are paid back and the USW economic recovery
endures.
as a citizen you are a stockholder in GM. based on bailout amount and population, each citizen contributed something like $190+ to GM. if the GM cars
are good it is in your interest to buy GM -- you are a shareholder, knucklehead!"
I guess I can stand being called knuckelhead by a goat. But I really need to remind that goat...and some others probably...that while the socialists
were bailing out GM they stiffed the bondholders of GM to the tune of 90% of their investment and delivered the value of that to the UAW which had put
the socialists in power. If you want to be a "shareholder" in a business that does "business" that way you are among the worst knuckelheads in
history.
When I went to business school...at Harvard no less...we learned that the bond holders in a bankrupt business stand fist among its creditors....not
last after a labor union...to divide up the assets of the failed firm. There are a whole bunch of other good and proper reasons to call goat's
idiotic and sophomoric economics what they are but I don't think he'd "get" them so I'll resist the temptation.
I would think, however, that goat and all similarly situated idiots should buy stocks and bonds in as many companies as they can just before the
socialists take them over.....The New York Times, The Washington Post, CBS, ABC and the LA Times are among the "businesses" soon to be bailed
out....and to have their investors cheated to achieve the "fundamental transformation" of America by redistribution of income that the chief socialist
announced was his goal. He announced that he was gonna give America's riches to "its rightful owners." The GM bailout of the UAW and its pension
funds was just a start. I would think that Goat et al would be rushing to gain by investing where the Obama et al will do that next.
Goat has to have flunked all the math and economics some poor teacher ever tried to pound into his knuckelhead.
BB
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Ken Cooke
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8946
Registered: 2-9-2004
Location: Riverside, CA
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Mood: Pole Line Road postponed due to injury
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
The US taxpayers are keeping GM in operation, not in "business". They went out of business a few months ago. It's now on life support thanks to the
govt. One of those welfare programs. |
I saw a commercial where the CEO stated that the loan was, "Paid in full." So, what gives? 
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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What gives? Truth.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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GM and Paying off the Loan
Heard this a few days back.. and have been seeing various "interpretations" on the subject... one can pick their own ....
There's a story out there, the automobile salesmen at General Motors, automobile salesmen at AP, an excited headline, breathlessly so: "GM Pays Back
Government Loans from US, Canada." No, they didn't. Here, listen to the lede: "General Motors Co. has repaid $8.1 billion in loans it got from the
U.S. and Canadian governments, a move its CEO says is a sign automaker is on the road to recovery." Now, if you only read the headline and the lead
paragraph, you'd get the distinct impression that what? They paid it all back, right. You get the distinct impression that GM has fully repaid all the
money they've gotten from the US and Canadian governments. Why would the AP want to mislead its readers like this? In fact, the General Motors outfit
got a total of $61.5 billion from the US and Canada, but now it's shouted from the rooftop when they paid back a mere eight billion. That's what
they've paid back. They have paid back a total of 13% of the government loan, and here the car salesman from the Associated Press report says they
fully paid it back, which they have not. One thing that they don't point out here very stridently -- of course, leaving it to me who can read the
stitches on the fastball -- they had the money to do this. Where did they get some of the eight billion to pay back? They did it by jettisoning 65,000
jobs, and the pensions that go with them, so they fired 65,000 people, got rid of their pensions and they said that they are paying it back. They
haven't earned it. They're cutting and it's only because Obama owns the car companies along with the UAW that you can fire 65,000 union people.
But, on topic.... just bought a 1986 ford bronco for $1700 dollars off ebay... has 213,000 miles.. drove it down from Mission Viejo in Orange County
to get a SENTRI Pass on it... it used 4.3 gallons to go 100 miles... have put around 500 miles on it and it has not used any oil.. starts every time..
for me... I'm cheap.. I like heavy steel units.. have had four Mexican men ask me where did you get that!!... they wanted to buy it right now.....
To me I like to spend the least amount of money on steel... it is just transportation... with this kind of car... throw your beer can in the back..
dents.. don't care... dirty ... don't care... it's four wheel drive and that works too... I not into racing at my age.. so for me its a cheap used
Ford ... will take care of most anything I'm going to see, plus it is a fun one drive... the wife drove it for the first time to day.... Oh my god...
keep them out of things that can move quickly and lets them be up real high ..... 
It's all good, now to get the beast all filled up and go south a bit... took the back seat out... dogs like that... have to start looking around for
one of those delux turbo air mattresses some folks seem to have in the back of their pickups when they tear the rear end out of their truck and use
nails to put brake lines... now, let me see how was that... release parking brake when in 4 wheel drive...
[Edited on 5-13-2010 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 5-13-2010 by wessongroup]
[Edited on 5-15-2010 by wessongroup]
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bajamikey
Nomad
Posts: 106
Registered: 4-6-2008
Location: Newport Beach,CA/San Josa Del Cabo
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Mood: baja with a cold pacifico
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2001 f-250 4x4 7.3 diesel 226,000 miles. The only thing i had to replace was a window wiper motor. If i ever need another p/u it will be a ford
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
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Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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Ken, the next beach camping run you arrange with your jeep group let me know. I have a 1991 wrangler which can get onto the beaches but not the rock
climbing, as it just would not make it,LOL. My 1987 Ford F-150 4x4 lasted a long time and went where I pointed it up and over but it did not last thru
the 3rd son,LOL. Take care, bajafun777
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landyacht318
Nomad
Posts: 247
Registered: 7-28-2007
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Many years ago, I bought a Dodge because at the time, I couldn't find a Chevy. I'd always thought it was hard to go wrong with a Toyota, But I owned
a Nissan before the Dodge. Well there was a VW, a Holden and another Nissan in between, but that was while overseas.
I'd never heard anything good about Fords, until they did not need Bail Out money.
I now cannot be pro Chrysler for obvious reasons, nor any GM product since the muscle car years and before the recent payment lies, and Toyota just
seems like yet another company who decided they could cut corners and line exec's pockets and endanger the public, since they had the market share
and had already bought all the politicians they needed to.
And then there's Ford. Once reviled by myself, I now find myself rooting for them to do well.
But, off topic, I do not believe the "You are what you drive" mentality so prevalent in California. My Vehicle is old, beat up yet mechanically
sound. I insure it for 200 dollars a year, register it for 67 dollars a year, and will not have to worry about driving a flashy vehicle south of the
border, if/when I can afford to do so again.
Sure I get poor gas mileage, but how could I possibly save money by buying a vehicle that has 10 times the insurance and registration fees, in
addition to the monthly payments.
Some can be proud of their conspicuous consumption, but I'll pursue the opposite, and the people I meet along my journey, might actually be real
people. If others I meet feel they have to define me by my possessions, I'll remain alone.
But somebody's got to fuel the economy, so consume, consume, consume!!
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bonanza bucko
Senior Nomad
Posts: 587
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Airport Bum
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Yep..LandYacht, BajaMikey,Wessongroup and I all ended up in the same place with a Ford!
I fired Found On Road Dead in 1998 after two Exploder 4X4 Limiteds in a row fell apart on That Road south of Puertecitos.
I bought Toyotas and finally my Tundra 4X4 in 2004. That was the best vehicle I have ever owned!...bar none. You ain't gonna believe this but I had
a 1973 911T Porsche that I kept for 31 years and 200,000 miles that did not!! handle as well as that Tundra truck!. It made many trips down That Road
and never even developed a squeak. But it got old...160K miles and a friend in Baja needed a truck so he got it. I found the new Tundras to be
lacking as some here have reported. I had to hold my nose to go to the Ford dealer (no way I will buy anything from Gummint motors).
After due diligence and a lot of poking and prodding and asking of tough questions to salesmen who usually don't have answers I found the Ford to be
the best truck now. Toyota needs to rediscover "six sigma quality" and to re-read the writings of Ed Demming after forgetting them.
The two gummint motors socialist wet dreams need to go bankrupt and start over.
BB
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bonanza bucko
Senior Nomad
Posts: 587
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Airport Bum
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Re the "Paid in Full" story: Wessongroup's info is the info I got from financial web sites....yer basic "major media" reporter is way too lazy,
dishonest and mathematically stupid to either understand or report the facts here. Ed Whitacre, my old boss at AT&T made that ad. He is a damned
liar! Not only did they not pay the loan back "in full" they also used borrowed money to pay back the 13% they did.
And that is on top of the stiffing of the bond holders...in violation of bankruptcy law...that facilitated the original "saving" of the company. Our
economy, and capitalism itself, are based upon the laws that were trashed by Obama et al. If investors can't trust the law they will not invest;
then there will be no money made; there will be no jobs created; there will be no consumer spending and there will be no taxes paid.
The only way out of the mess created by illegally stiffing GM's bond holders is a temporary one...printing money. And that produces inflation....and
that produces panic and tyranny. If you wanna see the future of this bunch of crimes committed by our "leaders" in WASHDC read the history of
Germany in the 1920s and 30s. If that doesn't scare you there is no hope for you.
OK...I'll get off my soap box and get back on topic....I love my Ford!
BB
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edm1
Senior Nomad
Posts: 568
Registered: 8-23-2006
Location: Oak Hills, Ca
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Ken, after Bonanza Bucko's drooling over his 2010 F150 Lariat, and I've heard the same, you may want to compare its quality to the F250 version. It's
easy to assume they're both Fords and should have the same quality features except the payload. But do a little more investigation. If they share the
same quality featutes, great, buy it; but if not, I'd just settle for the F150 and beef up the suspension and make it like or better than an F250.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18385
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bonanza bucko
When I went to business school...at Harvard no less...we learned that the bond holders in a bankrupt business stand fist among its creditors....not
last after a labor union...to divide up the assets of the failed firm. |
the problem with US bankrupcy proceedings is that rules were written by rich white guys and rules favor rich white guys over common folk.
you should not defend an unjust bankruptcy process.
[Edited on 5-13-2010 by mtgoat666]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18385
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bonanza bucko
And that is on top of the stiffing of the bond holders...in violation of bankruptcy law...that facilitated the original "saving" of the company. Our
economy, and capitalism itself, are based upon the laws that were trashed by Obama et al. |
well i have been the small creditor stiffed in a few bankruptcy proceedings where first-in-line large creditors got all the $$ and small creditors got
squat, and i don't give a rats *ss if the rich white guys got stiffed in GM deal. i think the rich white guys (large creditors e.g. bond holders)
should take on risk and not force risk down onto the small creditors like individual employees, small businesses, etc
[Edited on 5-13-2010 by mtgoat666]
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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From a quality standpoint I don't think there is a better built truck in the world than a Toyota Tacoma and DK will back me up or I him on that. You
can read Cosumers Report or JD Powers and they will tell you the same thing. Ask any Tocoma owner and they will tell you the same thing.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64854
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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TW is correct... and I got steered to Toyota from the Baja Amigos (pre-Nomads) like Neal Johns, BajaBoy, BajaTaco, Taco de Baja, jeans, Alejandra de
Baja, and a whole lot more Tacoma owners!
I did go to Ford first to give a Ranger a look over, and they wouldn't take my Chrysler product in on a trade. I am so glad they wouldn't... drove
right over to Toyota Carlsbad and they treated me well and took my van in as a trade without question... that was back in 2000 and 3 Toyotas ago (5
year leases, each).
The only other make that was a problem free as the Toyotas that I also owned three of was Subaru... awesome little 4WD wagons... over 100,000 miles on
each.. I traded them in for newer features not because they wore out! I also had a Mitsubishi truck, totally problem free and a Mazda van that only
needed a radiator replaced...
It is a shame that most American brand vehicles cannot compare to the quality and reliablility of Japanese makes! The other thing I liked about Subaru
as that it came with everything I wanted included, not a ton of add-on options to jack up the price, like American brands have. The two worse made
vehicles I owned were my Jeep Cherokee Chief and my Plymoth Grand Voyager van... unbelievably poorly made... and both American brands.
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bigboy
Nomad
Posts: 239
Registered: 12-28-2003
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DK...............read all of the above posts. We're not talking about American trucks from thirty years ago but recent model years. All of my recent
trucks are made by Ford and have been totally reliable.
1989 Bronco..........239,000 miles (lives in Baja)
1995 Bronco..........209,000 miles daily driver
2003 Excursion......49,000 miles tow vehicle
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18385
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
From a quality standpoint I don't think there is a better built truck in the world than a Toyota Tacoma and DK will back me up or I him on that.
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well, it is a bit extreme to claim best "in the world," but i do understand that you car-obsessed people tend to be overly consumed with your cars,
and if you were foolish enough to buy a tacoma you probably need to tell youself that to console yourself, especially after the recall to fix
DEATHTRAP braking problem (something still not fixed, but lucky for toyota has fallen off the front page)
but i suspect that the mercedes g-wagen or unimogs could beat toyota quality. i also think some of the the toyota land crusiers may have better
quality due to their stronger construction.
i have a 4runner that is essentially a more civilized version of tacoma. the 4runner is mechanically and electronically reliable, but the quality of
finish materials (e.g. thin plastic) is sub par relative to mercedes or land rovers or the toyota land cruiser.
yes, your toacoma is an OK truck, but so are lots of other trucks, and some even have more reliable braking and electronic thottle systems 
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mojo_norte
Senior Nomad
Posts: 725
Registered: 2-14-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
It is a shame that most American brand vehicles cannot compare to the quality and reliablility of Japanese makes! The other thing I liked about Subaru
as that it came with everything I wanted included, not a ton of add-on options to jack up the price, like American brands have. The two worse made
vehicles I owned were my Jeep Cherokee Chief and my Plymoth Grand Voyager van... unbelievably poorly made... and both American brands.
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I think this is an incorrect generalization. Granted, the 70's Chrysler ( Cherokee Chiefs) were POC's and I don't doubt that the Grand Voyageurs were
'poorly made' but is this 2 car sampling sufficient to make the general statement that 'most American brand vehicles cannot compare to the quality and
reliability of Japanese makes' I have a 94 4runner and the 3.0 V6 engines are basically lemons - head gasket recall. power of a 4 cylinder with gas
mileage of a V8 ( 15 mixed). Burnt valves due to very difficult adjustment requiring special tools and expensive shims. Granted, Toyota got it right
with the 3.4 V6 but they kept the 3.0 around for 10 years. My experience with the Ford truck products from mid 80's on is that they will run 200K and
beyond given reasonable maintenance and treatment.
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Pompano
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8194
Registered: 11-14-2004
Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
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Mood: Optimistic
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I still drive my '99 Dodge 2500 Cummins 24-valve diesel...among a couple other PU's. The Dodge now has almost 500,000 miles on it with nary an engine
problem. That engine is bulletproof.
However..I am now on my THIRD tranny...but..I'm a monster load at times. 24,500 lbs total - pickup/fiver/boat
Given all the info I am personally aware of..and from diesel owner's forum research..I would buy a Dodge diesel from years '99 to '04 (with low
miles..meaning less than 75,000) or a similar Ford Powerstroke...nothing newer than '05 in a Ford. Just my opinion..YOU do what you have to.
My Toy Tacoma should last this long...I hoping...it just can't do the heavy job a 2500 or 3500 can, nor do I expect it to do. After all..it's a toy.
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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