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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
If Mexican police used the same "guidelines" for using deadly force against drunken american teens, there would be plenty of tourist kids killed every
year.
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One can only hope.
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hbmurphy
Junior Nomad
Posts: 59
Registered: 6-1-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
If Mexican police used the same "guidelines" for using deadly force against drunken american teens, there would be plenty of tourist kids killed every
year.
But its just a Mexican boy, who now seems to be a big time wanted drug smuggler |
Not only that but think of the payout that that US could provide... 
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
It is alleged that our officers crossed over into Mexico and shot the kid in his own country. |
I believe that point will be challenged and shown to be BS.
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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I refer back to my original post------------can we PLEASE just let the investigation play out?? All this speculation is just nuts, and
counterproductive, IMO.
This was no "child". I personally have come oh so close to doing exactly what this Fed. officer did, and in fact was heavily reprimanded once when I
failed to shoot a young perp in EXACTLY these same circumstances, except not on the border. There is NO justification for "rock throwing", period.
Cops are not paid to take those kinds of abuse, period.
People are responsible for their aggressive actions, and generally speaking should not be surprised or enraged when others defend themselves. Let the
Courts decide------that IS the system, and it is a good one as far as I am concerned, and if anything it tilts highly in favor of the accused in this
Country.
It is astounding (and depressing) to me that some people can't see this.
Barry
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
I refer back to my original post------------can we PLEASE just let the investigation play out?? All this speculation is just nuts, and
counterproductive, IMO.
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Point well taken, Barry. Unfortunatly, from a need for feedback, we rarely get any. All that happens is that these issues end up being decided behind
closed doors and are as full of political correctness as they are fact and transparency is long dead.
Speculation is public opinion. We're allowed that and not much more.
In this case, if Mexican police or military officials crossed the river and tampered with a crime scene, I want to know about.
If this BP agent panicked and blew away a young man without adaquate cause, I want to know about that as well.
If we don't discuss the available issues now, we never will.
[Edited on 6-10-2010 by DENNIS]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17624
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Law Enforcement considers a "rock" a deadly weapon, and appropriate defensive action, including deadly force, is appropriate if the officer believed
that his, or somebody else was in danger of being injured or killed.
Lets let the investigation play out. There is normally more to every story than the press indicates.
Barry |
barry, do you have kids? there is never an excuse for shooting a kid because he was throwing rocks and acting like a juvenile. the murdering border
patrol agent should have walked away from situation. excuses in the form of an "investigation" are meaningless. in fact, we lready know what the
results of the "investigation" will be. bad people covering the butts of their fellow bad people.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
I refer back to my original post------------can we PLEASE just let the investigation play out?? |
ha, ha. what investigation? the investigators conclusions were known before they started. you cannot trust law enforcement to investigate law
enforcement. we can't trust barry, because he is/was a cop, and is of mindset that cops are never wrong, and any kill by a cop is a good kill.
barry, you and your type are the problem with law enforcement, and the reason very few people trust law enforcement.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
I refer back to my original post------------can we PLEASE just let the investigation play out?? All this speculation is just nuts, and
counterproductive, IMO.
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Point well taken, Barry. |
dennis, you miss the point. there will be no impartial investigation conducted by cops when a cop kills. in these cases, conclusions are written
before the investigation starts.
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Pacifico
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A video is worth a thousand words....Hopefully it gets released for all to view. In line with what Bajaboy said.....If I threw rocks at a soldier or a
Mexican officer of the law, I would fully expect some bullets to be coming my way.....I'm not saying he deserved to die, but sounds like he wasn't
exactly innocent either. It will also be interesting to see if the crime scene was tampered with....
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
Gnu--------I spent 30 years as a LE officer (community, State and Federal), and have been retired for almost 15 years-------this is nothing new.
"Proud" is not part of the scenario that I am describing-------I am just stateing facts-------society hires people to enforce their laws, and the
people thru their professional representatives define how that is to be done.
Perhaps you can institute change in how that is done, and that is the way it should work------in the mean time, officers will do what they have been
trained to do-----how could you expect it to be different? And, do you really think that the officers should be punished for doing what they have
been trained to do? If so, I find that untenable.
No body EVER told me that I was to risk my life without defending myself-----in fact just the opposite---------I was told to defend myself, and
others, no matter what, and given very specific criteria as to how to do that. To do otherwise puts all in danger.
Barry |
the officer had choices when he got into a spat with a KID:
put on a helmet;
walk away from confrontation with KID standing on other side of border;
use non-lethal force (rubber bullets, mace, etc);
shoot to wound; or
shoot to kill.
the pig chose to shoot to kill -- may he rot in h$ll
[Edited on 6-10-2010 by mtgoat666]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
dennis, you miss the point. there will be no impartial investigation conducted by cops when a cop kills. in these cases, conclusions are written
before the investigation starts. |
Thanks, Goat. You just made a case for public inquiry....just as I did. If we have enough reason to believe something supported by evidence, how can
we be denied.
Where is this video showing Mexican police tampering with a crime scene?
We are the court of public opinion and if we deny ourselves that power, we're traitors to our own cause.
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k-rico
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Posts: 2079
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Location: Playas de Tijuana
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While what really happened is extremely important what also is extremely important is now millions of Mexicans look at this as an Amercian cop killing
a 15 year old boy for throwing stones. That on top of the grandstanding by the AZ state government on the extremely complicated immigration issue and
the US has significantly added to the number of people worldwide that despise America. And these new haters of America are our neighbors. The cops
should have moved out of stone throwing range, what, 50 feet?
Yes, I know a lot of you could care less and some even welcome the hate.
[Edited on 6-10-2010 by k-rico]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 17624
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
dennis, you miss the point. there will be no impartial investigation conducted by cops when a cop kills. in these cases, conclusions are written
before the investigation starts. |
Thanks, Goat. You just made a case for public inquiry....just as I did. If we have enough reason to believe something supported by evidence, how can
we be denied.
Where is this video showing Mexican police tampering with a crime scene?
We are the court of public opinion and if we deny ourselves that power, we're traitors to our own cause. |
there can be no public inquiry. the cops will burn the evidence before they give it to the public. to keep cops honest, citizens need to take their
own video and post the atrocities online for all to see. but the standard cop excuse in suc cases is "but the videos does not show what happened at
beginning..."
i have never heard a top cop apologize for the actions of a bad cop. never happens. they just blame the victim.
like i said, NEVER trust a cop.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Goat---------yes, I have 4 kids. And I taught them to NEVER even argue with a cop, let alone resist--------none of them have EVER been in serious
trouble with the cops, tho they certainly are not shy, or tame. 
The rest of your points are so outlandish to me that it is better than I don't comment on them.
----and Dennis, you are right, and I understand.
Barry
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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Goat,
In your own words, "you're an idiot".
Ken
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
While what really happened is extremely important what also is extremely important is now millions of Mexicans look at this as an Amercian cop killing
a 15 year old boy for throwing stones. That on top of the grandstanding by the AZ state government on the extremely complicated immigration issue and
the US has significantly added to the number of people worldwide that despise America. And these new haters of America are our neighbors.
Yes, I know a lot of you could care less. |
A broad sense of compassion is the appropriate response to the loss of life of yet another victim.
And the acknowledgment that we are being played like pawns in a game where death, racism and division is the only practical result.
Most people to fail to acknowledge that Government lies repeatedly, Police lie, Military lie and we are not getting the facts from anyone here nor
will we ever it seems. Most of you have no idea what the real roles are that being played out here, theirs or yours and as suggested most don't care.
We really do not have much time left here to get together, before complete collapse into worse chaos than we have now, perhaps 1 year or 2 or 3. There
will be many lost and sacrificed in the process until you stand together.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
While what really happened is extremely important what also is extremely important is now millions of Mexicans look at this as an Amercian cop killing
a 15 year old boy for throwing stones. That on top of the grandstanding by the AZ state government on the extremely complicated immigration issue and
the US has significantly added to the number of people worldwide that despise America. And these new haters of America are our neighbors.
Yes, I know a lot of you could care less. |
A broad sense of compassion is the appropriate response to the loss of life of yet another victim.
And the acknowledgment that we are being played like pawns in a game where death, racism and division is the only practical result.
Most people to fail to acknowledge that Government lies repeatedly, Police lie, Military lie and we are not getting the facts from anyone here nor
will we ever it seems. Most of you have no idea what the real roles are that being played out here, theirs or yours and as suggested most don't care.
We really do not have much time left here to get together, before complete collapse into worse chaos than we have now, perhaps 1 year or 2 or 3. There
will be many lost and sacrificed in the process until you stand together. |
Gnu--------In my 30 years in law enforcement, at all levels, I have NEVER witnessed any of the allegations you are making here----NEVER!!!! Are
their some very isolated cases? sure, but they are NOT rampant, and certainly not part of some "plan" as you probably know------
I am not sure what your intent is here, but you appear sincere-------it is puzzleing to me, to say the least.
We tend to believe what we see, and I simply have not seen any of it, and I certainly would have, if it existed. I was even a member of a Nation Wide
"strike" LE team for about 3 years, and no examples of what you claim did I observe.
Barry
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Woooosh
Banned
Posts: 5240
Registered: 1-28-2007
Location: Rosarito Beach
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Mood: Luminescent Waves at Rosarito Beach
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Am I the only one who thinks the biggest contributing factor here is the lack of a physical border? The cops can walk back and forth 20 feet through
the mud water to plant/remove evidence in each other's country? No wonder the cottage industry human-smuggling operation developed- taking in the
police, and the boys who distract the US authorities. It's our fault for not having a border. Why do we make it so easy?
And on the border fence thing- personally I'd give up a few hundred square miles of southern USA real estate to build the physical border fence at the
closest and most cost effective location. Build around the mountains and on the other side of rivers if you have to but get it done. JMHO though.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
It is morally reprehensible and immoral to use lethal force on a rock thrower, because the outcome is predetermined!!!
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YES
[Edited on 6-11-2010 by DianaT]
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MrBillM
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We Care !
I'd venture that K-y is wrong when he said that a lot of people could care less.
MOST, if not all, CARE. We differ in WHAT we care about. In this instance, I CARE that the incident could result in a Wrong-Headed policy CHANGE
that would discourage the legitimate response to these continued assaults with DEADLY PROJECTILES of which there have been 799 logged in the last
Eight Months in the Border corridor. IF it should become the case that those behind these assaults KNOW that they have no deadly force response to
worry about, the incidents will increase with the inevitable injury and death to Law Enforcement officers, ANY of whom are worth more than those
attacking them.
Like others, I'm not too concerned over Jesse's scenario where Drunk and Disorderly Gringos are shot. That "might" be a case of "Who Cares" ? We'll
still have an over-abundance of them. Besides, are there really that many who are throwing Rocks at Mexican authorities ? NOW, that is DUMB ! Their
elimination would certainly improve the Gene pool.
As far as Tonearent and his supposition, if I were wagering, I'd bet that the Video doesn't support it since the Border Patrol has seen it and is
campaigning for the FBI to release it as support of their position.
AND, it will be eventually released.
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