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ramuma53
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Lobsterman
Mexico is not different from other places concerning buying real estate, but Foreigners buying real estate do not know the Mexican complexities
concerning property titles and let me explain you a little bit, because there are different kind of property titles:
ARTICLE 27 FROM THE MEXICAN CONSTITUTION SAY THAT ALL THE LAND INSIDE THE MEXICO BORDERS IS BY ORIGIN NATIONAL LAND AND TO TAKE IT OUT OF NATIONAL
LAND STATUS, YOU HAVE TO DO IT THROUGH A LEGAL TITE GIVEN BY THE NATIONAL LAND OFFICE ONLY.
And that “Only” is a very problematic “only”, because there is absolutely no other way, and that mean, that no judge, governor or any but any other
authority can give you a title that is legal over National land, also there is no status of limitations that affect National Land.
We have then, TITLES ISSUED BY THE NATIONAL LAND OFFICE (SRA) and those are the best kind of private property titles AND EVERY PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHT,
MUST HAVE ONE OF THOSE AS PRECEDENT, the problem is that, in Baja, most lots don't have one as precedent and the public notary supposed to be the one
to advise the buyer about that critical fact, but the other problem in Baja, is that they don’t, like most of the Rosarito developments, especially
the ones built by the Hugo Torres Chavert group.
We also have, EJIDO TITLES and those titles, say on them, FULL DOMINIUM, but it is only partially true, because, to be able to buy property, coming
from one of those titles, you have to follow up, a very difficult and lengthily process (up to 10 years) that include an authorization by the Ejido
group, whose assembly have to meet, with a majority of the ejidatarios, a public notary have to be there and certify that they did it legally and a
federal representative must be there for the same purpose. Believe me, it is very difficult to put that together, also, the ejido must be free of any
civil or administrative procedure and free of debt; once you put that together, they can give you an authorization to bring that lot, out of the Ejido
land, take that authorization to Mexico city and get a SRA authorization to take it out of Ejido Land and only then, it is private property, any other
way it is still Ejido Land and that mean, you have to obey the Ejido rules while they are able to get the property back for any reason without giving
you money back and of course, be a Mexican; Since all the Baja Ejidos, are all wrong and do not have legal technical works, the ejidos do not know
what their land is (of course they say they do) and have not received any land, in a legal way and as a consequence, NO EJIDO IN BAJA CAN SELL YOU
LAND FREE OF PROBLEMS; as a consequence, I will never advise any people to buy from a Baja Ejido; that is what doomed the American buyers in Punta
Banda, they bought from the Ejido, believed the Baja Governor, that they will not have problems and lost against a National Land title; you may say,
that they didn’t knew the complexities, but I personally advised the American Consulate in Tijuana what will happen, they consulted the Baja Governor
who told them, there would be no problems and you know what happened.
We have also COLONIAL TITLES that say on them, PROPERTY TITLES, but then, in small letters, say that the owners, must obey the Colonial Law and a
whole lot of problems come from those letters.
Colonial titles are not really property titles, they are very similar to a free land concession, that the Mexican government gave to people, to
motivate them, to go exploit and live on the land and have those conditions to be met, some people went and registered them as private property titles
on the public registry and have been selling for many years as private property but:
Colonial titles are not full private titles, are conditional property titles and are the owner property as long as those conditions were met and if
you failed to exploit, live and demonstrate to the land office every year, that you were living and exploiting the land, they simply disappeared and
didn’t gave the owner any legal property right and that mean that, if the original owner did not report the exploitation for 2 years, the title became
worthless; that is the case for a lot of Ensenada, San Quintin, La Paz and Los Cabos titles, like the Maravia title.
If you were living and reporting he exploitation, you were able to sell those titles, to a third person, but not as normal private property, you had
to follow a special procedure, to be able to do it legally; you were obligated to tell the buyer the kind of title he was buying, because he had to
obey the same rules, bring him to the SRA and land office, to execute the sale with them, then they issued another new title on the name of the new
buyer, obligated to the same rules; and that mean, that nobody can say, that he have one of those titles as precedent, because to be a legal title,
the title must be on his name, no way around this.
Those titles were so problematic, that most of the Baja Colonies never started and most titles were void, then in 1994, all the Colonial titles were
void and the very few, that were complying with the law and colony rules, were exchanged by National Land titles and that mean, nobody under any
circumstances, can say, that their property, have as precedent, a Colonial title and that is the case for Maravia development in La Paz and be aware,
that they claim to have a Stewart title insurance and also an American title insurance, but they simply do not have a legal title and are immersed in
legal problems because of that.
But the main problem I see in Baja, is that, the public notaries, who are the government delegates to check the property for you, on those matters and
responsible for advising you about any problems, simply in Baja, they do not do it, they just check if another public notary made the last inscription
and no more, raising the very real and problematic fact, THAT MOST PROPERTIES IN ROSARITO, ENSENADA, LA PAZ AND LOS CABOS HAVE VOID TITLES AS
PRECEDENT, casing the problems you face.
But, of course, the public notary will not lose his life savings, if the precedent tile is questioned in court, you will, then, you must check the
precedents in what is known as the devil test and that mean, that when you are going to buy a property in Baja, you must check all the property’s
precedents, all the way to the National Land office title THAT MUST BE AT THE BOTTOM, and, if you find any other kind of title, just walk away and do
not let the public notary or any other people, say otherwise. Not even the American Consulate or the Baja Governor, as Punta Banda “owners” found out
the hard way.
IF YOU FOLLOW THIS RULES STRICTLY, YOU CAN BUY PROPERTY IN BAJA SAFELY, DO NOT FOLLOW THEM ND YOU CERTAINLY WILL HAVE PROBLEMS AND LOSE YOUR HOUSE.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Must say, this individual has given more "facts" on buying real estate in Baja than most... which does seems to be proving correct .. saved one buyer
from making a big mistake.. has to be proving useful and factual information on the entire process ...
If I were in the market, to buy "property" in Baja or on the main land ... his "knowledge" would be helpful... in the due diligence process IMHO
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refreshing for a change, isn't it. I think I've almost beat my horse dead on this one though Wiley... lol |
Woooosh ... Think you have gotten all your ducks in a row ... and at this point ... time is on your side... along with the Pacific Ocean !!! ... enjoy
your view, it will only improve... as I find it rather hard to believe a structure, which is actively being impacted by direct tidal influence will
can pass the test ..... IMHO
Think you got the biggest friend one can have... "Mother Nature" |
You are right, the ocean always wins and we cheer-on each high tide event! In fact, the squatter property is surrounded by water almost every day
now- so you don't need to be a genius not to tell it's in the Federal Zone. After reading that story about only 200 real estate sales all last year
in Rosarito Beach, it's hard to believe building from scratch could be cheaper than buying something already on the market. I noticed house prices
finally coming down too- so the hundred or so local Realtors must really be starving. As other's have said, Baja is a renter's dream market for sure
as sale prices reset.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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burnrope
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I built my house on a giant turtle. It's not affected by the tide and I can move to different beach when I want to.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
Woooosh
As you say, either way the buildings are still illegal. We hold the federal concession title and pay every year for it (11 pesos per square meter)- we
just don't have control of it's use- as our concession title requires us to. The SEMARNAT Jefe required us to file charges against the squatter Ortiz
with the PGR. I do hope they start prosecuting others as you say. Great insight. If you know of people who can move the prosecution process forward on
this, U2U me. PROFEPA, SEMARNAT, JPGE and the PGR all have active files on this specific concession area: DZGF 832/08 and DZGF 477/10. Much thanks!
Hope to here from you! Woooosh
Your charges against the squater are one of the best ways to get back the use of theFederal Zone, but you must press it every step of the way, but if
you hold the concession you have the legal use of that area, then, the act of taking it away from you, is a criminal act with federal jurisdiction.
You are doing the right legal thing, but you must know the Mexican Justice system, it is difficult to move, but once you make it move, it will do the
job very effciently and to make it move you have to step on their toes. |
You have given us fresh hope. Every few months we get discouraged so we will keep at it. Got a question: If I wanted to be a troublemaker and put my
locks on the gates the squatter has in place around the house sitting on our concession- how much trouble would I get in? Can I lock her off? Seems
if she can paint over my concession signs and attempt to sell the concession land, I should be able to lock her off my concession. The concession
title says I am the only one entitled to use it. Maybe it's time for me to put the pressure on her for a change.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Woooosh
Beside doing the right thing I will give you one of the best advices I can give for your problem, look for an engineer named Daniel Martinez Chavira
at the Engineers club in Rosarito and use him as your expert witness, he is one of the best technical experts in the Rosarito's Federal Zone and once
he is on your side, he will fight like a dog for you, without making any concessions; he know that particular area problem very well and is very
respected in Rosarito by all Rosarito’s authorities.
He is authorized by the Federal Zone and all the Baja courts as a technical expert, he won the CFE against the ejido case and most of the big cases
in Rosarito.
He is eccentric but not expensive.
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ramuma53
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burnrope
That turtle must be the one lost by Hercules, that hold the world, I think, so give it back or the world may go down.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
Woooosh
Beside doing the right thing I will give you one of the best advices I can give for your problem, look for an engineer named Daniel Martinez Chavira
at the Engineers club in Rosarito and use him as your expert witness, he is one of the best technical experts in the Rosarito's Federal Zone and once
he is on your side, he will fight like a dog for you, without making any concessions; he know that particular area problem very well and is very
respected in Rosarito by all Rosarito’s authorities.
He is authorized by the Federal Zone and all the Baja courts as a technical expert, he won the CFE against the ejido case and most of the big cases
in Rosarito.
He is eccentric but not expensive. |
awesome! Simply awesome. I finally have a next step that doesn't involve being a troublemaker- not my style anyway but I was running out of ideas.
Thank you.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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wessongroup
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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WoW ... another movie... and we already have film too..
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burnrope
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Nothing wrong with going down.
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ramuma53
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burnrope
Yes I now, but not everybody together
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burnrope
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This is starting to seem like responce's to a Craigslist posting.
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by burnrope
This is starting to seem like responce's to a Craigslist posting. |
responses?  
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Woooosh
If I wanted to be a troublemaker and put my locks on the gates the squatter has in place around the house sitting on our concession- how much trouble
would I get in? Can I lock her off? Seems if she can paint over my concession signs and attempt to sell the concession land, I should be able to lock
her off my concession. The concession title says I am the only one entitled to use it. Maybe it's time for me to put the pressure on her for a change.
Since you alrready started legal procedures and mande a formal comlaint accepting that he is there, that mean you accepted that he has posession, a
posession that you claim is not legal and is yours, but you alrready accepted that he has an illegitimate posesion, then if you take that posesion
away without a court order, you wuld be commiting a crime known as despojo and will be prosecuted for that crime.
If you hadn't accepted in a formal way her posession, then you would be right, because it is a lot less expensive to just defend your property and
lock averybody out than go to court, but if you already made the formal complaint about her illegal ocupation, do not do it, she would be able to put
you in jail and believe me, if she put a little money behind her legal actions, you would have given the property away.
If you acted legally, continue acting legally.
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ramuma53
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woooosh
Do not worry about being a troublemaker, if you have legal reason, the troublemakers are the only ones who win in court, because if you are not a
troublemaker, then you allow corruption on the other side to act, but if you are a troublemaker for the authorities, then it become expensive for the
other side and cheap for you and that fact may be the descisive point.
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bajabass
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So, it all boils down to "the sqeaky wheel gets the grease"! The more noise you make, the more it will cost in bribes, so eventually the other party
runs out of money and gives up.
Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel!
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BajaGringo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
woooosh
Do not worry about being a troublemaker, if you have legal reason, the troublemakers are the only ones who win in court, because if you are not a
troublemaker, then you allow corruption on the other side to act, but if you are a troublemaker for the authorities, then it become expensive for the
other side and cheap for you and that fact may be the descisive point. |
Very, very true. It also helps if you have any connected friends on your side to remind them of that fact as well...
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
woooosh
Do not worry about being a troublemaker, if you have legal reason, the troublemakers are the only ones who win in court, because if you are not a
troublemaker, then you allow corruption on the other side to act, but if you are a troublemaker for the authorities, then it become expensive for the
other side and cheap for you and that fact may be the descisive point. |
The squeaky wheel approach can take down corruption? That and a good video for public shaming. When I was with the SEMARNAT Jefe (Snr. Villareal) we
discussed the impact of the video I made. I told him the Mexican system is not prepared to handle this much "transparency" and the people now
believe what they see with their own eyes (my video and I mentioned blog del narco as another example), not what their government is telling them.
Widespread internet access and YouTube are forcing officials to act more honestly and openly. He was surprised when I told him there was a
"hit-counter" on our YouTube video and of how many people had seen and commented on it. After all, Mayor Torres was the one who forwarded it to him-
not us, and it wasn't until we met and discussed the video with him in September that Villareal agreed to gives us the second concession with the new
FMZ lines PROFEPA had approved. PROFEPA notified us in May of the approval, but SEMARNAT sat on it until September the video came out. Villareal
drew up the Federal title for us within a week of interviewing us and then directed us to have Ortiz evicted by the PGR. I don't think we would have
gotten this far without the video. If we were developers or seeking profit from the concessions we may not have success- but the fact we are doing
this for the people of Rosarito didn't hurt. I'll be the legal troublemaker- no locks.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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ramuma53
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Woooosh
Ok I told you he is a little eccentric and that fact is because he is one of the best engineers in Baja, he only work on the cases he likes, actually
he has a master degree and a lot of credential, he does not have a cell phone, only a nextel radio 152*15*5874 and his email is dmch_2008@hotmail.com
and that is it, tell him I refered you to him, because he does not accept many cases, but you can be sure, he will accept yours.
Talk to him about your problem without any compromise, he will give you his opinion and a proposed way of action and believe me, when he has to fight,
he does it better than any other but he know a lot of ways concerning Federal Zone.
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ramuma53
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Woooosh
That is the right way to work in Mexico and the only way to get results, the public offivcials at first hate you and will try to block you but when
the heat get high on them, they become your friends, sorry but that is the mexican way and I preffer not to complain about it, just use it to the full
extent.
Also Mother nature will hrelp you, that building will not last the next big storm, it is actually dangerous to its ocupants.
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ramuma53
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bajabass
You are right here in Mexico and any other place in the world, but now that you know how to obtain results in Mexico, it is only a matter of doing it
when you need it and that is this thread's goal.
You are wrong about the fact that when you make a lot of noise, it becomes expensive for the noisy party, it works the other way, noise save you money
and corruption offers, they actually start to fear you and become your friends, helping you at the same time, remember that they are there as a
business and they will not jeopardize their business for any deal in particular, even if they received money, they prefer to go to the side making the
most noise and have the legal reason.
[Edited on 1-11-2011 by ramuma53]
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