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DENNIS
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Yes....We have to update our arguements.
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choyero
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To those that think drugs are now decriminalized.
Go smoke a joint in Mexico in front of a cop and then come back and tell us how decriminilized it really is.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by choyero
To those that think drugs are now decriminalized.
Go smoke a joint in Mexico in front of a cop and then come back and tell us how decriminilized it really is. |
I wouldn't even drink a beer in front of a cop if I didn't have one for him.
I don't understand your point.
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mulegemichael
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does he have to have a point?...at this point?..and on and on.
dyslexia is never having to say you\'re yrros.
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toneart
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elbeau
It sickens me to think about how many people are harmed because of their own addictions to drugs...but it sickens me worse to think about how many
non-US residents are being brutalized and killed because of the US's addiction to drugs. We have made progress in the "war on drugs" through
education, but not through enforcement. The only answer is legalization...but it should be done right, and we can look to our own alcohol laws for
guidance.
Alcohol is controlled. There are controls on what you can do under its influence. There are controls on what age you are supposed to be before you
start using it, etc..
Now, we all know that those laws don't stop minors from drinking and they don't stop drunks from driving. But we can enforce the violations.
The violence associated with drug smuggling and distribution owes it's life to the fact that the only way to get drugs is to get them from criminal
organizations. It's exactly like the problems we faced ourselves in the days of prohibition. SOMEBODY WILL SUPPLY DRUGS and the harder we make that
to do, the more brutal the suppliers will become.
Whether we like it or not, America WILL BUY DRUGS, and it is impossible to "win" the war when we (not me personally, I mean the country) are the
enemy.
The answer is actually pretty simple, and it shouldn't be offensive to either the right or the left:
LEGALIZE DRUGS...but put VERY unreasonable controls on who can buy them compared to other products. For example, make it illegal to buy or use drugs
before you turn 30...make it illegal to posses drugs AND have a drivers license...just make it stupidly inconvenient to "legally" buy drugs...but DO
make them available.
If you do, then you'll shift the flow of drugs and money away from large criminal organizations. You won't necessarily stop or even slow down drug
use in America, but you will SUBSTANTIALLY reduce the level of criminal activity...not because of it's newly-found "legality"...but because just like
alcohol and tobacco crimes (ie: distributing to minors), your offenders will be small-time locals without much criminal hierarchy.
Then, we can put a more American face to our problem and quit blaming the smugglers. Then we can devote funds to the only thing proven to help the
drug situation: Education. Then we will stop enticing young people to commit serious crimes for our drug dollars.
What we are doing now is BEYOND STUPID. Most people in America think that by controlling the drug trade rather than fighting it with guns, that we
are giving up the moral high ground. I couldn't disagree more. As a nation, we're just hiding from the facts by blaming the smugglers instead of our
culture for the problems. |
Well thought out, elbeau. The only thing I would disagree with is your restriction up to age 30. That would not work and that would also miss all the
tax revenue for that age group. They can go to War at 18 and they can drink at 21. 21 should be the legal age for pot. (18 would be OK with me).
Howodd,
Right on!
I would disagree with you when you say it wouldn't be opposed by the Left or the Right. Wrong! The issue is absolutely split along those lines. The
Ideology on the Right blindly trumps logic, as it does on most other issues such as Economics, Social issues and War. There's no use trying to
convince them. They drank the Cool Aid when Nixon was President. (There are a few exceptions...very few).
They will counter this and your concepts with the usual insults and name calling. When it comes just translate it to read "Blah blah blah".
The stupid War On Drugs and resultant violence (violence begets violence) must stop!!!
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MrBillM
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Begetting
Borrowing a (related) phrase, "Kill them All. God will sort them out".
Obviously, killing them all is NOT possible, but it's a worthy goal to work towards.
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Cypress
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Yep! Hope those folks that are all about keeping pot illegal are proud. They just dug up over a hundred bodies in a mass grave south of the border,
compliments of the "keep it illegal" crowd. How much more blood will have to flow? The death toll is already in the tens of thousands. The only folks
that benefit from this farce are law enforcement, the pharmacutical industry, lawyers, judges, and of course, the drug cartels. Even grammer school
kids know illegalized pot doesn't add up .
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Bajahowodd
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Cypress, I partially agree with what you say. But, there are lot's of others you can add to the list. I would certainly add the fundamentalist
religious crowd that believes you need to behave as they want you to.
Then, there are those who would pander to the anti-pot crowd.
Just a small coincidence that given the GOP landslide last November, times are a'changing. Except that what they've been up to was never part of their
stated agenda. You know, like eliminating collective bargaining rights, or gutting Medicare, or cutting taxes further for the wealthy and
corporations. Or how about this. In a state that had already implemented a reasonable medical marijuana law, the GOP majority is seeking to just about
eliminate medical marijuana.
The governor is a Dem and previously vetoed a bill similar to this one, but not as far reaching as this new one.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/27/montana-lawmakers-p...
[Edited on 4-27-2011 by Bajahowodd]
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Cypress
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Bajahowodd, You're right! There's plenty of blame to go around for the ineptitude called "The War On Drugs".
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jenny.navarrette
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
Yep! Hope those folks that are all about keeping pot illegal are proud. They just dug up over a hundred bodies in a mass grave south of the border,
compliments of the "keep it illegal" crowd. How much more blood will have to flow? The death toll is already in the tens of thousands. The only folks
that benefit from this farce are law enforcement, the pharmacutical industry, lawyers, judges, and of course, the drug cartels. Even grammer school
kids know illegalized pot doesn't add up. |
Even Mexico's president Felipe Calderon is opposed to the legalization of drugs in the US. He does not believe it will reduce the crimes in Mexico in
the least. He has access to the greatest minds in the area, and extensive studies, and intelligence you could never see, including direct talks with
the cartel leaders.
I'm curious why, in light of these facts, you stick to that tired old mantra of legalizing drugs? What information do you have that is superior to the
guy who is neck-deep in the problem?
I'd be very interested in knowing how a person who sits in the cheap bleacher seats in right field seems to know more than the team manager.
Mexico cannot win the war on drugs because Mexico is corrupt, from top to bottom. Calderon even said he was totally taken by surprise by the depth of
corruption in Mexico. Every Mexican knows what is going on and most are involved in thed drug business in one way or another, or depend upon the money
it puts into circulation. Even if they are not involved, they just look the other way.
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ELINVESTIG8R
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NEVER! On the legalization of drugs. They do that and we have a society of mindless drug addicted citizens. Our country as we know it will be over. I
say send in the killing squads and annihilate them. There is no salvation or rehabilitation for any of those cartel members, especially the mindless
killers they have on their payroll. They are pure evil. Until then it is business as usual. The corrupt become more corrupt and richer while hundreds
of innocent people continue to be murdered. It’s a no-brainer!
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Cypress
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jenny.navarrette, Team manager? The folks in the "cheap seats"? There're a lot
more "eyes" in the cheap seats than in the team managers seat, he only has two. And his job depends upon keeping 'em illegal.
ELINVESTIGOR, You said it! It's a "no-brainer". Legalize 'em.
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DENNIS
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It isn't a "drug war" anymore in Mexico. It's a war for control of the country.
Cartel sponsered legislators will run the country.
Then....what are you going to say?
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Bajahowodd
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"Mexico cannot win the war on drugs because Mexico is corrupt, from top to bottom. Calderon even said he was totally taken by surprise by the depth of
corruption in Mexico. Every Mexican knows what is going on and most are involved in thed drug business in one way or another, or depend upon the money
it puts into circulation. Even if they are not involved, they just look the other way."
-Jenny.Navarette
Nobody is going to win this so-called war. Except for those who financially benefit from it, while it is being waged. The US has an incredible
bureaucracy that counts tens of thousands on the payroll. Yet, in a certain sense, it is nothing but theater. Unless you are someone who has lost a
loved one in this unnecessary sham battle.
Not to mention the tens of thousands of people sitting in prisons who committed a victimless crime.
I've said it in the past. The genesis of this so-called war occurred during Nixon's term in office. Despite the dirty little fact that a huge number
of our troops, fighting in Nam were smoking weed every day, Nixon got the feeling that the uncomfortable dissent on the war was fueled by pot smoking
hippies, and he decided to show them.
That said, this issue does contain great complexities. For instance, if we were to legalize pot, is that where we draw the line? While there is a vast
body of evidence that show marijuana to be a fundamentally harmless intoxicant, what to do about cocaine, meth and even heroin?
Let's just say that it just snowed in August and the US legalized pot. Fact is that the Mexican cartels have a long-standing, and very sophisticated
delivery system for just about anything. I doubt they will turn to delivering flowers on Mothers Day.
So. Even if this nation could come to an understanding about pot, then what about cocaine? What about meth? What about heroin?
Gawd. Sure wish I had a simple answer.
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Bajahowodd
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
It isn't a "drug war" anymore in Mexico. It's a war for control of the country.
Cartel sponsered legislators will run the country.
Then....what are you going to say? |
Really good point. But you may have only touched on the edge of the political issue. Since the big kerfuffle only started after the election of PAN
member Fox, do you think that maybe the PRI are just sitting around and salivating, about now?
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CortezBlue
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I think this gal is on drugs
what a stupid video
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Bajahowodd
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Not necessarily. Just consider the immense amount of money that passes through the drug dealing process.
Just may think that the few very rich folks may have already won the war.
Consider that for the most part, the business school graduates who are working on Wall Street have long since dismissed the idea that any sovereign
nation and its government matters. The only thing that matters is profits.
Transnational corporations have no allegiance to any single nation. Similarly, the cartel fat cats do not, as well.
Who knows what money laundering techniques are being employed by the cartels that may very well involve the casino that is Wall Street.
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DENNIS
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There are two governments to blame for this entire mess. They allowed this.
So disheartening.
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bajadock
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Howodd,
How about a big bank like Wachovia, for example. Wach' is now part of Wells Fargo.
edited: I see my link is similar to that of CortezBlue on pg2 of this thread. The banks are definitely shareholders in the drug war.
[Edited on 4-28-2011 by bajadock]
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ELINVESTIG8R
NEVER! On the legalization of drugs. They do that and we have a society of mindless drug addicted citizens. Our country as we know it will be over. I
say send in the killing squads and annihilate them. There is no salvation or rehabilitation for any of those cartel members, especially the mindless
killers they have on their payroll. They are pure evil. Until then it is business as usual. The corrupt become more corrupt and richer while hundreds
of innocent people continue to be murdered. It’s a no-brainer! |
Since when did drugs being illegal deter
anyone from using them?
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