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24baja
Senior Nomad
Posts: 952
Registered: 2-3-2009
Location: Grants Pass Oregon/Bahia de Los Angeles
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Mood: Wishing we were in BOLA
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Thanks for all the replys, I understand now. It is rare that we do not get a visa, I was not aware we were required or expected to return them. I
will make sure we do so in the future. Connie
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65278
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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First off Thanks to fatoldcapt for posting this... and welcome to Baja Nomad!
I hope you can take the stuff that some here like to fling at new (and us old) Nomads!
Now, let me just add my 'fling' and it is not intended to be negative, just fact based... The 'authority' you went to was the state tourism dept.
These folks want tourism in their state and have said many things to encourage it. I remember when Mexico Ted had his radio show and had them on as
guests...
The tourist card (FMM) is issued by the FEDERAL government department of immigration (INM) and the rules of the tourist card are theirs and not the
states.
I am looking forward to a federal publication that provides the firm limits of the 'border zone', time limit in the border zone, etc.
It has been printed many years ago to be Mexicali on the gulf side and Maneadero on the Pacific side... San Felipe tourism folks have shouted so much
that a tourist card isn't needed to go as far as San Felipe, that has become the accepted norm (no matter what Mexico City has published!).
The published max. time in the border zone with needing a tourist card has been 72 hours. Yet, we keep hearing 7 days being thrown about. The border
zone has also been mentioned to be as far south as San Quintin, and perhaps the ENTIRE state of Baja California (Norte)!??
I look forward to seeing the federal new rules, if they are new!
Thanks again!!
[Edited on 5-11-2011 by David K]
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Paulina
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3812
Registered: 8-31-2002
Location: BCN
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We made the mistake one time when applying for new tourist cards of having our expired cards on hand, tucked into our Passports. We were scolded for
not turning them in when we left Mexico. We apologized, handed the old ones over and got new ones. Actually we didn't hand them over, the officer took
them from us.
Because of the new computer age that seems to have sprouted in Baja, out of curiosity his past December we asked about returning the tourist cards. We
were told not to worry about it. "No one does it. Just tear it up and get a new one."
We still hold onto our old ones just in case the day comes when we are applying for another, our info is punched into the computer and it comes up
that we never returned the old one.
I think (and I try not to do that too often) that scooting by the tourist card thing as we all have been getting away with, is going to become another
part of the "good old days" of baja.
P>*)))>{
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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fatoldcapt
Junior Nomad
Posts: 28
Registered: 8-6-2010
Location: Desert Hot Springs, CA
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Hello David! I'm sorry I missed meeting you. I was with Ken Cooke on this April's "Baja Grande" Run. Too bad we had to leave a day early due to
mechanical problems.
The source of this information was from the Travel Office. However, the reply from them said they had qualified the instructions about "Mailing" the
Travel Cards/Permits to them after checking with Immigration.
I contacted the travel office because they look to be acting as a advocate for us tourists.
Their instructions that they will accept the papers if mailed to the Chula Vista, CA office is great news.
It looked to me as if persons entering Mexico and needing a Visa were (are) being entered into a computer data base.
That changes everything. If you check in but not out, I can see all sorts of problems on the horizon. Fines, Fees or even denied entry for those who
go back at a later date.
So I'll be mailing them in to the Chula Vista office. I thank them very much for accepting them with a promise that they will be forwarded as
required.
It sure is a screwed up mess. I hope they figure out something that works smoother that it does right now. Good Luck to us all.
Aaron
[Edited on 5-11-2011 by fatoldcapt]
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Paulina
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3812
Registered: 8-31-2002
Location: BCN
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Aaron,
I might suggest getting a proof of mailing when you send it off. Just in case that promise goes by the wayside.
P>*)))><
\"Well behaved women rarely make history.\" Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65278
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Hi Aaron,
Is this where I say to get a Toyota so your Baja trips aren't cut short? 
I hope you had some fun and got to see some special sites and experiences!
I led one of Ken's Jeep groups to Mano Canyon back in 2003 or 4 (I think)... You guys are all good fun people, and as long as a Toyota, Isuzu or other
reliable rig is along, you're good!! 
(PS, I am a former Jeep owner, so I hope you forgive my humor)
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fatoldcapt
Junior Nomad
Posts: 28
Registered: 8-6-2010
Location: Desert Hot Springs, CA
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On this last trip we tried everything we could to turn in the Turist Card before we crossed into the US. We stopped into the Immigration Office at
Ensenada. It was there we were told that they couldn't accept them there. If they had, the problem would have been solved. We protested until a senior
person on the staff came over. I pressed him about the poor options afforded us in trying to follow the rules.
There just wasn't any easy way to return the damn things before crossing back to the US. The thought of parking on the US side and walking over to the
Immigration Office then standing in line with 400 others waiting to walk back across the boarder wasn't going to work for us. We'd been driving for 6
hrs. It just wasn't going to happen like they sugested.
Eventually the senior fellow just said "don't worry about it, It doesn't matter".
We left there and stopped by the "Tourisum Office" a block or so up the street. Again we made our plea. After a short debate of our options a senior
person there said he would accept the cards. He gave us his card. He wrote the permit numbers on the back and signed it.
I would list the names of these contacts, but, my travel buddy has the business cards.
So yes. It is a screwed up mess. They need to make some other arrangements. They need to make a Drop Off Box at the return boarder crossing. And/or a
dedicated mailing address. Right now (or as of a few weeks ago) if you ask them (when you get the permit) if you can mail them back? The answer from
Immigration is "NO".
Thanks for listening.
Aaron
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fatoldcapt
Junior Nomad
Posts: 28
Registered: 8-6-2010
Location: Desert Hot Springs, CA
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David,
I've had two "Yotas", Pickups and a Sizuki "SideFlip". I will wheel in just about anything I can get to run. But the short wheel base on the Jeep
makes it sooo much easier to get around in. I think the jeep (not mine) just didn't want to get muddy. But it probably was vapor lock knid of a thing.
Never happened before and once it cooled off and we were going faster than 2 mph, it made it the rest of the way home just fine.
Aaron
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fatoldcapt
So yes. It is a screwed up mess. They need to make some other arrangements. They need to make a Drop Off Box at the return boarder crossing. And/or a
dedicated mailing address. Right now (or as of a few weeks ago) if you ask them (when you get the permit) if you can mail them back? The answer from
Immigration is "NO".
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After further consideration...
A drop box wouldn't work. If Mexico requires you turn it in then you would need proof you actually did. Perhaps a web site where you could register
that you left country?
In any case, this requirement doesn't make it easy to be a tourist. It's FUBAR, yet typical of Mexican skewed logic. They never think
anything through. The country is doomed.
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bajamigo
Super Nomad
Posts: 1218
Registered: 6-17-2006
Location: Punta Banda, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: hubimos llegado
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fatoldcapt
After a recent trip down South, the matter of what to do with the Toutist Card came up once again. So I e-mailed the Secretary of Tourism Office. I
received a reply from "HHiguera@baja.gob.mx"
Good morning Mr. Stephens
Regarding you question, you have to return the form to the Immigration office that is in Mexican Costumes in Tijuana B.C.. What you can do is:
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Such a welcoming gesture!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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This is all total nonsense. Throw them in the round file until Mexico decides it's important enough to do something about the issue. You folks are
sitting here trying to redesign Mexico......again. The document is good for six months, then it's dead. It isn't a freakin' passport.
If you had any idea how many foreigners are living in Baja without documents, short and long term, that Mexico could not care less about, you wouldn't
be losing sleep over "trying to do the legal thing." It isn't a law although you people are turning the whole thing into a pain in the butt.
Haven't you noticed that Mexico makes no mention of this issue until some paranoid tourist writes or calls and presses for an answer? What would you
expect their answer to be? "Oh, just do it your way." I doubt you'll be hearing that. That would be relinquishing full control and there's not a
government agency in the world that will do that so you force them into making an executive decision over the phone.
Just put them in a drawer at home or toss them away. Let Mexico make and enforce her own rules. They can do that without your guidance.
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lencho
They could design the dropboxes to read a code on the FMM and issue a printed proof of receipt to the departing traveller. |
Sounds like the logical thing to do... Which is why it won't be considered.
Dennis wants you to throw them in the trash. I say, if you're not going south of GN...don't even bother.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19920
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Just put them in a drawer at home or toss them away. Let Mexico make and enforce her own rules. They can do that without your guidance.
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denny:
and what can they or anyone else do with your guidance?
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grizzlyfsh95
Nomad
Posts: 226
Registered: 1-8-2010
Location: East Cape
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Mexico wants them returned because they want to know if you have gone to the bank and paid he fee. It works well w/ the airlines because the fee is
paid in the ticket. When trave3ling by car, the visitor is responsible for paying for the visa for any travel below Ensenada.
The harder I work, the luckier I get
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Borregoman
Junior Nomad
Posts: 81
Registered: 3-4-2009
Location: Mission Viejo, CA
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I am with DENNIS on this one!
For what it is worth, I am with Dennis on this one. I have been stopped at many Military checkpoints, asked for car insurance papers, drivers
license, US mailing address....NEVER been asked to see a Tourist Card....
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Borregoman
For what it is worth, I am with Dennis on this one. I have been stopped at many Military checkpoints, asked for car insurance papers, drivers
license, US mailing address....NEVER been asked to see a Tourist Card.... |
Well...I'm not sayin' don't get one. On the contrary....do get one if you qualify.
I'm just sayin' the return issue has been blown way out of proportion here. I mentioned earlier, and I believe it's true, that some folks here have
been beaten senseless by over-regulation. If they don't have rules and regs to prompt them through life, they go out of their way looking for them.
Doesn't really reflect an adventurous Baja Spirit, does it.
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baja1943
Banned
Posts: 686
Registered: 5-10-2011
Member Is Offline
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tourist card
| Quote: | Well...I'm not sayin' don't get one. On the contrary....do get one if you QUALIFY.
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Can anyone guess what the symbol for QUALIFY is in Mexico 
It's all good!
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preston
Nomad
Posts: 159
Registered: 2-3-2005
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Amusing thread.
Completely useless ... but amusing.
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mulegemichael
Super Nomad
Posts: 2310
Registered: 12-24-2007
Location: sequim,wa. and mulege
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Mood: up on step
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yeah, the times they are a changin'...i have many, many amigos that in decades have never had a tourist card with no repercussions...nothing...i have
on occasion forgotten to get my card validated at the bank and upon exit of mexico have had absolutely no problem...i have probably 6 old fmt's in my
wallet that were never turned in ....nothing happened....i have yet to see an immigration guy that are checking our tourist visas to have access to a
computer...i KNOW this is coming but at this point, i have not experienced it...there appears at this point,that there are no crossover checks.
dyslexia is never having to say you\'re yrros.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65278
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Borregoman
For what it is worth, I am with Dennis on this one. I have been stopped at many Military checkpoints, asked for car insurance papers, drivers
license, US mailing address....NEVER been asked to see a Tourist Card.... |
I also agree with Dennis on his statement. Sure we want to be 'legal' and do the 'right thing'... but Mexico (government) really doesn't care... If
they did, then there would be an easy method to hand the thing back in as you cross north. They like getting the money they have collected since
charging for the thing began in mid 2000, but they would rather have more tourism...
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