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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 05:02 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
Wonder if the new downtown parking meters were mentioned in their bid to promote tourism? a buck an hour. They must think this is Newport Beach instead of Rosarito. Think the timing on this one is a bit off.....


True story, krafty. It's way more than minimum wage for a lot of humans.

"Oh, to be born a parking meter. My problems would be solved."
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marv sherrill
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 05:13 PM


Ah' yes lets quote Mark Twain - there are 3 types of lies - lies, damn lies and statistics!

Here are a few of mine (real stats...) that might lend a helping hand here -

Mexico has about 6000 violent crimes per year - the US has about 35,000, and Mexico's population is about 1/3 that of the US - US has over 10 X the death rate as does Mexico - Hmmmm
Ciudad Juarez accounts for 50 % of those deaths, leaving a mere 3000 for the rest of Mexico and Baja -(LA alone has about 680 violent deaths per year to put things into perspective)

Another note- 6000 vets in the US commit suicide per year.....

Why do I feel so much safer in Baja than here????

[Edited on 6-17-2011 by marv sherrill]
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JoeJustJoe
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 05:14 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by Woooosh
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
I for one will not let the tag team of Jenny and Woooosh scare me from visiting or living in Mexico.
[Edited on 6-16-2011 by JoeJustJoe]


I don't accept that premise, but I'd take that team over whomever it is you have. :)

You kinda lost me when you attacked the chart-yielding blogger's position based solely on his "white and effeminate" looks. You were on a roll for a while though... :saint:

Did you catch the other chart on the guy's site that showed the increase in Mexico's murder rate since the assault weapons ban expired? Another chart shows the percentage of guns being used in Mexico homicides. The charts cover 1998-mid2010.

http://blog.diegovalle.net/2010/09/how-expiration-of-assault...

[Edited on 6-16-2011 by Woooosh]


I don't that I was attacking the white and effeminate looking blogger Diego Valle-Jones except that I was asking Jenny why should I be impressed just because he is Mexican-Americans, and I wanted to show another side. I expressed no opinion on Valle-Jones blog, except to say anybody could have a blog and put whatever they want on a blog. There is also the fact that often blogs are agenda driven, and I was wondering what Valle-Jone's agenda was.

Thanks to the link I think I found part of it. Diego Valle-Jones is obviously a right-wing effeminate gay gun nut! He certainly doesn't fit the profile, but then again gun nuts often over compensate for their lack of manhood by buying big guns like that's going to make up the difference.

Diego Valle-Jones, although it's a well written piece opinion article reeks of NRA talking points of not accepting blame of arming the Mexican drug cartels with assault weapons used in killing Mexican cops and other citizens.

It would be a waste of time to refute every word Valle-Jones but check out "Fact-Check" on this issue and it will be fairly obvious who is supplying these weapons to the cartels. ( here is a hint...it's the US)

What I haven't found are 'many' other articles of large shipments of assault type weapons coming in from places like North Korea, Russia, or even South America and arming the Mexican drug cartels. Almost all the articles show arms and weapons coming in from the United States, and operation "Fast & Furious" is yet another example on how the US guns shops along the border are supplying weapons to the Mexican drug cartels.

What happened to the "assault weapon" ban in the 90's is the firearm manufactures found a way around the ban, and many weapons not on the list were still sold. What another assault weapon ban needs to do is ban all types of assault weapons and the large clips that go with those weapons period.

Just pass the another law and ban "all" assault weapons and similar type weapons. We don't need those types of weapons in this country or Mexico because the only purpose for those weapons are for killing people in large numbers, and are favored by the drug cartels. At least make it harder for the gun manufactures to get around the bans. They could also put more teeth in the law and close the gun loopholes.

The fact is the NRA and the right-wing Republicans will never pass any kind of sensible gun-control legislation and instead sing the mantra, " Guns don't kill people, people do."

From Diego Valle-Jones blog:
______________________________


In response to the ban, firearm manufacturers quickly retooled their guns so that they didn't meet the law's definition of assault weapon, and most of the banned features don't strike as particularly important. For example, I bet most guns smuggled to Mexico are disassembled and so a stock of any kind would be removed. And I've never heard of a cartel shootout that involved bayonet mounts.
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krafty
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 05:18 PM


I give them a month, Dennis, before they are all broken or screwed up with the wrong size coinage.
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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 05:42 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by marv sherrill
Mexico has about 6000 violent crimes per year -



Oh...c'mon, Marv. You have to be talking about the little town I live in. Where do you get these numbers?
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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 05:46 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
I give them a month, Dennis, before they are all broken or screwed up with the wrong size coinage.


:lol::lol::lol: Cool-Hand Luke with a pipe cutter.
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marv sherrill
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 06:13 PM


Dennis - check "The Catalist" - then just google around to substantiate the stats - I don't make this up - (Do you live in Cuidad Juarez?????)
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DENNIS
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 06:20 PM


6000 violent crimes in a screwed up country of 110,000,000?? No freakin' way. I'll let someone else look it up.
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jenny.navarrette
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 06:41 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by marv sherrill
Mexico has about 6000 violent crimes per year - the US has about 35,000, and Mexico's population is about 1/3 that of the US


That's great news, Marv. I can't understand how those Mexicans got their statistics all screwed up. The ICESI ( a Mexican think tank) shows 218,329 violent crimes in Mexico in 2010:

HOMICIDIOS DEL ORDEN COMÚN (murders) = 34,763
LESIONES DOLOSAS (Intentional Injuries) = 169,208
VIOLACIÓN (rape) = 14,358

Here's the link to their data:
http://www.icesi.org.mx/documentos/estadisticas/estadisticas...

http://www.icesi.org.mx/documentos/estadisticas/estadisticas...

http://www.icesi.org.mx/documentos/estadisticas/estadisticas...

I'm going to call them and tell them what a lousy job they did in compiling their statistics from the official government reports.

Do you think I should hold off on that while you recheck your data? Maybe we should have JoeJustJoe investigate this? After all, everybody at ICESI just might be white and gay... a sure sign their numbers are all wrong.
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elgatoloco
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 07:49 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by krafty
I give them a month, Dennis, before they are all broken or screwed up with the wrong size coinage.


The 'meters' are the kind where you put in the money and get a receipt and take it back to your car. I know because last weekend I parked right in front of one and only noticed it when I returned to my vehicle after about an hour or so of walking and shopping and eating. No ticket. Lucky me. :saint:




MAGA
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JoeJustJoe
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 08:56 PM


Here is another reason why you should not trust the figures of Diego Valle-Jones the right-wing effeminate gun nut blogger who goes crazy with charts on Mexican violence and who Jenny often quotes from.

Diego Valle-Jones wrote this below that Woooosh quoted:
---------------------------------------

90% of the guns in Mexico come from the US: Of those traced, about 90% came from the US. The keyword being traced. This isn't all guns that were confiscated in Mexico, not even a random sample, but a highly biased one. For example, according to GAO, 25% percent of traced guns were assault weapons, while according to the Mexican government 50% of seized guns were assault weapons. So it would be mistaken to draw inferences about where the total percentage of guns come from. However, given that thousands of guns have been traced to the US, it would be correct to say that the United States is one of the main suppliers of guns to Mexico.
--------------------------------

JoeJustJoe refutes Diego here:

However in a number of places all over the internet there is a new story about the percentage of guns that the US supply. This time the percentage of all guns seized in Mexico that come to the USA is about 70 percent. It's not as high as the ninety percent figures in the past but these numbers are more accurate to refute because of the 29,284 firearms recovered by authorities. 15,131 of them were traced to the US, and another 5,373 were foreign guns that were shipped to the US and later delivered to Mexico, and another 8,780 were of unknown origin, but I would bet many of those weapons also had a US connection, but I can't say for sure.

I can't wait for Diego Valle-Jones and his ilk girls like Jenny and guys like Woooosh to refute these latest findings about the USA supplying arms to the Mexican drug cartels at least 70 percent strong:

Read about it here:
____________________________________

70% of Guns Seized in Mexico Come From US


(Newser) – A whopping 70% of guns seized in Mexico in 2009 and 2010 came from the United States, according to figures from the ATF. Of the 29,284 firearms recovered by authorities during that time, 15,131 were made in the US and another 5,373 were foreign guns that moved through the US to Mexico. The ATF, which submitted the guns to a US gun-tracing program, doesn’t know where the other 8,780 arms came from.

read the rest here:

http://www.newser.com/story/120986/70-of-guns-seized-in-mexi...
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jenny.navarrette
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 09:14 PM


Joe's still wanking away with partial data.

Quote:
The report states that of 29,284 arms handed over for tracing by Mexican authorities in 2009-10, some 70 percent came from the US.

The ATF's statistic has been controversial since it was first cited two years ago. (At that time the number was even higher, at around 90 percent. It may have dropped now because more guns are getting traced today).

Nonetheless, it only accounts for guns seized in Mexico, and of those, the ones that the Mexican government submits for tracing.

“It is completely misleading. There is a huge population of guns that Mexicans confiscated that they don’t submit to trace to the ATF,” says Robert Farago, the managing editor of the website The Truth about Guns.


http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2011/0615/US-guns-fu...

Mexico submits the guns with American manufacturer's names for checking and does not submit all the AK-47's with no marking or Chinese markings.
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JoeJustJoe
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 10:07 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Joe's still wanking away with partial data.

Quote:
The report states that of 29,284 arms handed over for tracing by Mexican authorities in 2009-10, some 70 percent came from the US.

The ATF's statistic has been controversial since it was first cited two years ago. (At that time the number was even higher, at around 90 percent. It may have dropped now because more guns are getting traced today).

Nonetheless, it only accounts for guns seized in Mexico, and of those, the ones that the Mexican government submits for tracing.

“It is completely misleading. There is a huge population of guns that Mexicans confiscated that they don’t submit to trace to the ATF,” says Robert Farago, the managing editor of the website The Truth about Guns.


http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Americas/2011/0615/US-guns-fu...

Mexico submits the guns with American manufacturer's names for checking and does not submit all the AK-47's with no marking or Chinese markings.


Which guns are those Jenny the AK-47's shipped in from China to the USA and then are slipped over the border to the Mexican drug cartels?

That Christian Science Monitor article is very weak. The article seemed to only say the numbers are cherry picked, and very misleading, but it doesn't really go into detail why except to say there are many guns not submitted for testing. Well there are many reasons why many weapons weren't submitted for testing. For example the Mexicans didn't feel like sending them or didn't have the manpower to do so. When the AFT gets over 70 percent traced back to the US. It's very possible to extrapolate the non tested numbers and figure about 70 percent of those weapons come from the US too.

Let me take a page out of Jenny's play book and think logically. If I'm a Mexican drug cartel. Why wouldn't I buy the majority of the weapons from the US the country next door that has lax gun laws and sells weapons to anybody?

Oh if you're depending on that quote below that said," fully automatic machine guns aren't sold in Bob's gun store. "Well it's pretty easy to convert those assault weapons to fully automatic machine guns. and the grenades. You can't buy grenades in Arizona, but you can pick them up in the black market in Mexico that come from places like El Salvador. I understand there are many grenades left over from the Central American wars that were financed during the Reagan and Bush Senior days in the 80's. So in many ways the US does provide the Grenades to the Mexican drug cartels indirectly.
_____________________

From the Christian Science Monitor: ( not true)


Grenades and fully automatic machine guns are not sold at Bob’s gun store in Arizona,” Farago says. “This is a distraction technique. There is not an iron river of guns from [US] gun stores.” [Editor's note: The original version of this story misnamed the source of this quote.]
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jenny.navarrette
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 10:41 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
The article seemed to only say the numbers are cherry picked, and very misleading, but it doesn't really go into detail why except to say there are many guns not submitted for testing. Well there are many reasons why many weapons weren't submitted for testing. For example the Mexicans didn't feel like sending them or didn't have the manpower to do so.


Hey Bozo, dont you ever get tired of playing the clown? You just make up crap and throw it out here to see it it sticks to the wall. You know nothing about what you talking about. Mexico does not send the guns to the ATF. They are evidence. They email an Excel spreadsheet with the manufacturer, model and serial number. It is the same spreadsheets they use for their own internal data. There is no extra work, and even if there was, it is just some clerk with a 6th grade education making $7 per day.

[wank]...[wank]....[wank]
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JoeJustJoe
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[*] posted on 6-16-2011 at 11:17 PM


Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
The article seemed to only say the numbers are cherry picked, and very misleading, but it doesn't really go into detail why except to say there are many guns not submitted for testing. Well there are many reasons why many weapons weren't submitted for testing. For example the Mexicans didn't feel like sending them or didn't have the manpower to do so.


Hey Bozo, dont you ever get tired of playing the clown? You just make up crap and throw it out here to see it it sticks to the wall. You know nothing about what you talking about. Mexico does not send the guns to the ATF. They are evidence. They email an Excel spreadsheet with the manufacturer, model and serial number. It is the same spreadsheets they use for their own internal data. There is no extra work, and even if there was, it is just some clerk with a 6th grade education making $7 per day.

[wank]...[wank]....[wank]


Hey Girl just face facts. The majority of weapons used by the Mexican drug cartels come from the USA period. I don't know why it's so hard for you and your ilk to accept?

eTrace was the method I was thinking of. They didn't have the Spanish version out a few years ago, and was another reason why many of these weapons weren't submitted.

Now go to bed you wimp. I know you go to asleep at exactly 12 AM only to get up at 6 AM to do it all again.

Oh that 6th grade education. Wasn't it you who said Mexico is run by people with a 6th grade education? You need to have a little more respect for Mexicans, otherwise people here will just think you're racist.

[Edited on 6-17-2011 by JoeJustJoe]
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luv2fish
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[*] posted on 6-17-2011 at 12:50 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Quote:
Originally posted by jenny.navarrette
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
The article seemed to only say the numbers are cherry picked, and very misleading, but it doesn't really go into detail why except to say there are many guns not submitted for testing. Well there are many reasons why many weapons weren't submitted for testing. For example the Mexicans didn't feel like sending them or didn't have the manpower to do so.


Hey Bozo, dont you ever get tired of playing the clown? You just make up crap and throw it out here to see it it sticks to the wall. You know nothing about what you talking about. Mexico does not send the guns to the ATF. They are evidence. They email an Excel spreadsheet with the manufacturer, model and serial number. It is the same spreadsheets they use for their own internal data. There is no extra work, and even if there was, it is just some clerk with a 6th grade education making $7 per day.

[wank]...[wank]....[wank]


Hey Girl just face facts. The majority of weapons used by the Mexican drug cartels come from the USA period. I don't know why it's so hard for you and your ilk to accept?

eTrace was the method I was thinking of. They didn't have the Spanish version out a few years ago, and was another reason why many of these weapons weren't submitted.

Now go to bed you wimp. I know you go to asleep at exactly 12 AM only to get up at 6 AM to do it all again.

Oh that 6th grade education. Wasn't it you who said Mexico is run by people with a 6th grade education? You need to have a little more respect for Mexicans, otherwise people here will just think you're racist.

[Edited on 6-17-2011 by JoeJustJoe]


We allready do......
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jenny.navarrette
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[*] posted on 6-17-2011 at 08:38 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by luv2fish
Quote:
Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
You need to have a little more respect for Mexicans, otherwise people here will just think you're racist.


We allready do......


Mexicans are a race? I always thought they were a nationality. How come Americans are not called the American race? Or Canadians the Canadian race?

Since you are obviously so up-to-date on all this, can you tell me what tribe this Mexican is?



Is she Maya? Cucapah? Please enlighten all of us.
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wessongroup
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[*] posted on 6-17-2011 at 09:21 AM


Spot on ... jenny :):)



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[*] posted on 6-17-2011 at 09:32 AM
Inductive Reasoning


Wanting to "Prove" their "Premise" that a majority of weapons are coming from U.S. Gun Dealers, the Mexicans aren't likely leaving out ANY weapons which "might" be traced to that source. THAT argument is ABSURD.

Of course, so is Joe.

There's no question that the numbers are being rigged. It's impossible to even get an accurate count of the TOTAL number of weapons the Government is seizing as they juggle those numbers to make their point.

In any case, it's a BIG "So What ?"

Since it is clear from the seizures, including Heavy Machine Guns, RPGs and Grenades, Explosives, etc, that the Cartels DO have more direct sources, they could just as well purchase their small arms from those sources at higher cost.

The reason that they buy what they do from U.S. dealers is simply economic. It's cheaper and the supply-lines are more secure. Remove that and they'll still buy whatever they need. There is no shortage of Cash-Flow in their enterprise.

BTW, I'd like to see Any "PROOF" that AK-47s (or M-16s) are being supplied by Those Border Dealers. THAT would put them in jail immediately if the buyers were not Class III purchasers and I haven't seen any evidence of Class III purchases going astray.
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[*] posted on 6-17-2011 at 09:58 AM


Quote:
Originally posted by MrBillM
Wanting to "Prove" their "Premise" that a majority of weapons are coming from U.S. Gun Dealers, the Mexicans aren't likely leaving out ANY weapons which "might" be traced to that source. THAT argument is ABSURD.

Of course, so is Joe.

There's no question that the numbers are being rigged. It's impossible to even get an accurate count of the TOTAL number of weapons the Government is seizing as they juggle those numbers to make their point.

In any case, it's a BIG "So What ?"

Since it is clear from the seizures, including Heavy Machine Guns, RPGs and Grenades, Explosives, etc, that the Cartels DO have more direct sources, they could just as well purchase their small arms from those sources at higher cost.

The reason that they buy what they do from U.S. dealers is simply economic. It's cheaper and the supply-lines are more secure. Remove that and they'll still buy whatever they need. There is no shortage of Cash-Flow in their enterprise.

BTW, I'd like to see Any "PROOF" that AK-47s (or M-16s) are being supplied by Those Border Dealers. THAT would put them in jail immediately if the buyers were not Class III purchasers and I haven't seen any evidence of Class III purchases going astray.

I would go a step further and suspect that Drugs, not cash are used to obtain guns in trades. Barter before cash.




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