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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CJ
A couple of things need to be understood. The foreign community in Loreto is not opposed to paying a fee to launch, most just think it would be better
to charge the same amount to EVERYONE who uses the facilities.
I went down to the ramp this morning and what I witnessed was if you are a local Mexican there was no charge. Private boat or not it didn't matter. A
local car mechanic launched, he wasn't approached for a fee. Although a local American launched and was asked to pay. This is blatant DISCRIMINATION
It isn't the first time I have seen this in my twenty years in Loreto; but it is disturbing........."love it or leave it" you say, fine but it is
things like this that pull the Mexican/Foreign community further apart. Things come and go in Mexico, this will too. The local people in charge just
have to come up with a solution where ANYONE who uses the ramp pays the same fee and not feel as though you have more so you should pay more. That is
the way it is done in Puerto Escondido, and there is no problem there.
[Edited on 7-2-2011 by CJ] |
CJ, no one can speak for the foreign "community" in Loreto because we are all individuals with diverse opinions. I disagree that all should pay the
same fee, and I favor a reduced fee for fishing captains. I also feel that I have no right to say what "the local people in charge" must do. I may
not always like what they do, sometimes they may even hurt my feelings a little. And I also really don't like it when any foreigner professes to
speak for the community. Nine times out of ten~~ they do NOT speak for me!
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CJ
Nomad
Posts: 204
Registered: 8-29-2003
Location: Loreto, B.C.S. y Lopez Mateos
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Mood: It's cool with me
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Paula, sorry to rock your ponga. For starters I'm speaking as a Mexican not a foreigner; and what I should have said was the foreigners I have talked
with say they feel as though the fees should be the same for everyone. These are opinions of twenty or so local foreigner [fisherman] who launch their
boats on a regular basis.
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LaTijereta
Super Nomad
Posts: 1192
Registered: 8-27-2003
Location: Loreto
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Where to start..
The marina was a gift to the people of Loreto, from the President of Mexico back in the 80’s, and was taken over by API a couple of years ago. While
they have made improvements for the cruise ships that bring tourists onshore, they have shown little interest in developing the launch ramp and marina
facilities for “private boaters” or “sport fishing charters” that share this small facility. The ramp was reworked a few years ago, but in a
“half-ass” manner… The facilites… bathrooms, “photo-op” board to promote Loreto, fish cleaning, and parking lot none exist.
I do not see Arturo (in charge of collecting these fees) wanting to reinvest back into the facilities.. The monies will go into his pocket, and pay
for a person(s) to collect the fees if this program persists in my own opinion.
As for the fees paid..
The “federal service maritime” boats where provided a “monthly” fee or pass, after questions where raised. The fee of $70 pesos, or $6.00 dollars,
seems low for amount of wear and tear they would bring to the ramp. These I assume, are the “sport fishing & island charters” that launch out of
the marina on a daily bases in the summer months. They do have to go through “commercial” registration, and pay additional fees for their licenses..
It remains to be seen how and when their fees will ever be collected by Arturo and API for their use of the marina..
The “private” boaters, both Mexican and Foreign, are being asked to pay $129 pesos each time they want to launch. Why could there not be a monthly fee
for persons living in the Loreto area that may want to launch their boat multiple times in a month? It only seems fair, based on the deal offered the
“sport fishing” boats. I see this bringing only further separation in Loreto, if a Mexican national is allowed to launch his/or her “private” boat”
for no charges, and a Foreigner (either visiting or living next door in Loreto) is asked to pay monies to Arturo. I want to believe we are all
Loretanos , when it comes to the Marine Park that surrounds Loreto we are all looked upon as “equals” when it comes to proof of residency in the
Loreto area. I wonder how one man or organization (API) is allowed to change the rules over night?
In the end.. This program will fade as the summer storms come to Loreto, and fewer boats are seen going out. By fall there will be fewer boats brought
down to Loreto, and hopefully some of the wounds will heal between the Loretanos who were charged to use a public ramp, and those who were not…
BTW.. With Loreto trying to get back on the map for a fishing destination this summer..They always bring these new rules/ programs out just as people
are getting ready to bring their boats down to Baja after years of bad PR... 
Democracy is like two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.
Ben Franklin (1759)
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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It'a slippery slope when they start creating "gringo taxes" like this. If I used that ramp, I'd be asking about the legality of charging just
foreigners for using it, should be the same for everybody.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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I think that the legality of this charge to local Loretanos, given the fact that the marina and ramp was a gift from President Salinas de Gortari,
should be looked into. I am curious about where the collected fees will go and transparency of the accountability.
CJ as a Mexican citizen you should get involved in the meetings and voice your opinion and not just here. I have been very busy to attend the
meetings that dealt with the fee so I'd appreciate if you can go to the meetings so that your voice may be heard you have the right as a citizen to
attend and participate.
I am against discrimination but the fee for a private boat should be the same and charged no matter whose boat it is. The fee for working pangas is
tricky because the use of the ramp is our access to the water that we live from and that we carry permits to work on, our fuente economica necessary
to feed our families with is in jeopardy with an excessive fee, we know this and so do they that´s why an agreement was made. Private boats are being
use for recreation not to feed the family of the boat owner but for fun and enjoyment, there's a big difference there ethically and in the eyes of
Mexican law.
There's always the free beach launch in Colonia Zarogoza, one of the very few public accesses left here.
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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| Quote: | Originally posted by CJ
Paula, sorry to rock your ponga. For starters I'm speaking as a Mexican not a foreigner; and what I should have said was the foreigners I have talked
with say they feel as though the fees should be the same for everyone. These are opinions of twenty or so local foreigner [fisherman] who launch their
boats on a regular basis. |
That is a better way to put it CJ. And I might have said that I don't like any person to assume they speak for a community...
I agree that there is much wrong with this fee program. It was poorly installed with no lead time, no discussion among the LORETO community, and
really no clear rules or enforcement. But I don't think it needs to divide the foreign and local populations because really neither population was
consulted here. We are all in this together. And I think Tijereta may be right, it will just slip away. That said, I do see a need for the fee to
be lower for service providers. And I am concerned that one office, or one officer has the power to make this call.
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Merino
Newbie
Posts: 8
Registered: 3-25-2010
Location: Portland Oregon
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Mood: Always Dremin
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Fees
For that kinda money get me a dedictaed parking spot , washdown area ,A fillet table under a Palapa with misters
and 25 cent beers .In all seriousness , for that kind of money the amenities need to be improved . This isn't Puerto Los Cabos and I don't want it to
be. We also hire and utilize a local captian when he's available .Write the letter and prompt discussion -lets insist on a monthly or annual
alternative fee .Maybe for that kinda money they can provide security and I can leave my boat in the water.I don't mind paying -judt seem excessive
.....
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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API-BCS controls all the ports and ramps in Baja California Sur, so if this one works then the whole thing will expand to the other ports even though
they have been doing fine for years. The commercial landing have paid and that is one of their funding sources besides the Government. Hopefully we
will not be seeing that up in Santa Rosalia or San Bruno anytime in the near future.
I fish most days of the week but it is to help my friend who makes a living off of the fish that he catches. So now we have a real conundrum, do we
pay the Gringo recreation fee or the lower panga fee. One more of the challenges for a cross-cultural relation. How about Pam, does she pay the
gringo fee even though she is a citizen or does her husband have to get the permit.
I would think they could have gotten pretty much the same results with asking for some support from some of the local boat owners, business
operators, and the like, but no, they hit up the people who look wealthier and have more expensive looking boats.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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Mood: gone fishin'
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
API-BCS controls all the ports and ramps in Baja California Sur, so if this one works then the whole thing will expand to the other ports even though
they have been doing fine for years. The commercial landing have paid and that is one of their funding sources besides the Government. Hopefully we
will not be seeing that up in Santa Rosalia or San Bruno anytime in the near future.
I fish most days of the week but it is to help my friend who makes a living off of the fish that he catches. So now we have a real conundrum, do we
pay the Gringo recreation fee or the lower panga fee. One more of the challenges for a cross-cultural relation. How about Pam, does she pay the
gringo fee even though she is a citizen or does her husband have to get the permit.
I would think they could have gotten pretty much the same results with asking for some support from some of the local boat owners, business
operators, and the like, but no, they hit up the people who look wealthier and have more expensive looking boats. |
So far we haven't been hit up for money. I am exhausted right now, delayed start this morning wiht the weather and all. I am hoping to fish tomorrow
and tuesday but may push that to tuesday and wednesday... I will find out about the next meeting I know there will be one and I predict this subject
will come up. My one panga is registered under our cooperativa and my husband as a member and a captain. I am on the board of directors on the coop
so I also sit on the consejo de pesca (commercial and sport fishing board). Although I will complain about the fee of 129 for the lack of services I
will not hold my breath that it will be eliminated or changed, they've been proposing this to happen for years. However I will explain that a monthly
or weekly pass should be an option, also that funds need to be accountable and stay local. Finally I will warn my compañeros that a "gringo tax" is
only the start of much worse for us in the future, if we don't keep it in check we will all pay. Just to let you know, a lot of the captains do
understand the need to keep the bureaucrats in check, and are not happy with how this has all gone down so far.
BTW I am told that at Puerto Escondido where they do have services the ramp fee is 177 pesos and all paperwork including insurance papers need to be
presented to the singlar office to use the ramp.
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Merino
Newbie
Posts: 8
Registered: 3-25-2010
Location: Portland Oregon
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Mood: Always Dremin
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Pam , we've used the marina In Santa Rosalia and there is a small launch ramp nearby.It has all the amenities . Chilled pool , hottubs ,showers
,security ,parking Pemex,fresh water ,electrical hookups and I can keep my boat in the marina .....Its a great deal -you can even catch your bait
inside the marina . I have a 20' CC and it's about $18-$20 a day. We still love Loreto as it is a very charming town .But compared to the services
provided at Pto Escondido and Santa Rosalia -both run by Fonatur -The entities implementing this launch ramp fee are charging way too much for what
there providing. Keep up the good work ,I know we will all be well represented .
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Merino
Pam , we've used the marina In Santa Rosalia and there is a small launch ramp nearby.It has all the amenities . Chilled pool , hottubs ,showers
,security ,parking Pemex,fresh water ,electrical hookups and I can keep my boat in the marina .....Its a great deal -you can even catch your bait
inside the marina . I have a 20' CC and it's about $18-$20 a day. We still love Loreto as it is a very charming town .But compared to the services
provided at Pto Escondido and Santa Rosalia -both run by Fonatur -The entities implementing this launch ramp fee are charging way too much for what
there providing. Keep up the good work ,I know we will all be well represented . |
API-BCS has an office above the ferry terminal in Santa Rosalia and has the responsibility for the operation of the port. They have had the money
to repair and fix the ramp in Santa Rosalia for some time but it has not happened since it was destroyed in Hurricane Jimena. They are also scheduled
to dredge out the marina at San Bruno but we have not seen any sand or rocks moved as of yet. I think they saw a golden opportunity to add to the
coffers in Loreto but still seems more of a "shoot from the hip" kind of action. I have paid that kind of money to launch at San Diego harbor but I
get real restrooms, a launch ramp that works, a breakwater, and fresh water washdown.
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EdZeranski
Nomad
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Registered: 11-4-2008
Location: Ocean Beach/Borrego Springs
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Was it ever decided on why the fees in the first place? When I was there, Loreto, two weeks ago it was rumored because of local fishermen being
unhappy with the lack of customers. They came up with the idea Americans were sneaking charters on their private boats via the internet...... rather
than slack economy or fear of traveling. Anyway, just something I heard while in 'L' town.
EdZ KG6UTS
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Merino
Newbie
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Location: Portland Oregon
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Ed , That's interesting , I heard the same thing from a long time panguero captian . In essence , he says that some American boats are offering to
take gringos fishing -their own little charter service ,therefore they are cutting into the local pangueros slice of the pie and interfering with
their ability to make a living . He thought one of the reasons that Americans were doing this was because of the high price of fuel.When I am in
Loreto I go fishing with my immediate family and friends that made the trip with me and we even hire a local panguero to go out fishing with us. If
they want to improve the facilities with the money thats one thing , but to all of a sudden start charging a launch fee with no discussion or
explaination is a little Autocratic and resembles a "make the rules as we go " mentality.
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
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http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2133699.htm
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EdZeranski
Nomad
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Registered: 11-4-2008
Location: Ocean Beach/Borrego Springs
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Mood: Si! Como no???
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We now fish with Roberto Romero,"No Rookies!", from the Colonia and for years with his half brother Chincho until his death. I guess the depth of the
economic slow down after several years fueled by the real estate balloon is hard for some folks to grasp.
http://www.oem.com.mx/elsudcaliforniano/notas/n2133699.htm Thanks Paula!!
Well, if it really is to provide better services as the above article stated it would be good if the organization passed that info to more folks to
clear the speculation. But....make the rules as you go does have a tradition.
Now the real issue...Whats the Dorado situation??? ~8^)
EdZ KG6UTS
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Merino
Newbie
Posts: 8
Registered: 3-25-2010
Location: Portland Oregon
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Paula , thanks for the post and information .If API and Arturo don't get the word out it fuels speculation as to why all of a sudden there are launch
ramp fees . Personally 129 pesos isn't going to kill me , but I do appreciate "transparency" and information regarding the new fee.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
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Location: on the bayou
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Just another "Stick it to the Gringo" deal. 
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
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while i'm signed on, i completed the english version of the letter and waiting for my google spanish translation to be cleaned up better than I can
personalyly do it, i'll post it when its ready, hopefully it will not only address the community's concerns it will be part of a solution
happy fishing!
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fish101
Nomad
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Location: Loreto BCS
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Well, its been nearly two months since API started charging the "Gringos" the 129 pesos Ramp Fee and no sign of any improvements being made. I have
seen several people slip on the ramp recently, couldn't something be done here to assist those trying to launch or retrieve their boats. Pot holes at
the approach to the ramp could also be filled in. Where is all the money going?? Anyone responsible for accountability? While we are stopped, trying
to pay our fee and receiving the receipt, the panga owners are waved around allowing them to launch ahead of us..To be fair to all of us, they should
wait in line as we have to. For all of us that live here the year around, wouldn't it be fair if we could get a monthly fee as well? The Mexican
fishermen think we can afford to pay this fee, but when you pay the ramp fee, buy bait at 200 pesos, buy gas for the boat and catch one or two fish
that day, its an expensive day on the water..Isn't discrimination illegal or doesn't anyone care anymore??
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