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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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If my reasons were pointless, as has been noted by two of our great thinkers, there would be nothing to respond to.
The mere existance of a response of any kind illustrates the impact of my points and that they will only be argued here with blind denial.
The refuge of any proponent of a weak or non-existant rebuttal is to deny the existance of a stronger arguement. 
Hey....did you Outdoorsmen see this:
http://home.indy.net/~ama/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpict...
How about one of these for your game management concerns:
http://operatorchan.org/k/arch/src/k124204_Ontos.jpg
Did you ever wonder how few casinos would be scattered across the US if Custer had just one of these:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_4XTVSQmaGf4/S8RW7jeaPVI/AAAAAAAAAJ...
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajabass
Usually to make themselves feel better about themselves Cypress. They don't have personal issues, they have subscriptions!!! |
................and prescriptions!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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More street corner "sign throwing" by a violent, leaderless mob. 
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13048
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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WOW...hunting 101 was pretty interesting...thanks Pompano and some beautiful photos...I'd never seen nor imagined a hunting scenario like that. As
always I enjoyed your narrative...guns and chocolate...guess I'd have to go with the chocolate in my case.
I also appreciated and can relate to Dennis's ditty and agree the spittle added a special flavour. I was a vegan for many years and vegetarian for
more but have now moved back into the hunter/gatherer mode with a preference for eating wild meat instead of store bought crap. I love it when
visitors bring us duck and venison so I guess I cant criticize guns and hunting anymore.
but I am in the "kill it humanely, with respect and eat it" camp.
this is indeed a thread to ponder ...many facets to consider.
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estebanis
Nomad
Posts: 279
Registered: 11-11-2002
Location: Stuck North of the Border. They won\'t pay me
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Someday!
Hey Roger!
Thanks for the photos! Loved the one of the Canadians Locked up and commited. Someday I want to be in the layout blind right next to you eating
hershey bars and watching Simon the Wonderdawg fetching our Geese!
Esteban
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bonanza bucko
Senior Nomad
Posts: 587
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Airport Bum
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...sure would be nice if execrable zealots such as Dennis would go off by themselves and admire their prejudices while leaving the rest of us alone in
our pleasures. Admiring their own navels must be all consuming for them because they tell us so much about it.
We hurt no one by ethical hunting and while we enjoy it we share the magnificence of God's creation and creatures with others like ourselves.
Most hunters are also the ones who work hardest and donate the most money to wild life habitat. Ducks Unlimited and Pheasants Forever are good
examples....they help produce many more birds than they kill and they are the organization and money behind many of the wild life preserves around us.
But we get very peeed off at busy bodies such as this street corner lecturer who think, somehow, that their vision of reality should be poured on
everyone else, like it or not.
They are the ones who have piled the debilitating crud of PCness on us...and, believe it or not, they are the ones who loudly preach
"nonjudgmentalism" and diversity from their false pulpits....just so long as those weapons are not used against them.
Sickos!
BB:-(
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
I am in the "kill it humanely, with respect and eat it" camp.
this is indeed a thread to ponder ...many facets to consider. |
Awww...thanks Mon Sherí.
The "back to nature mob" here has blown my original intent way out of proportion, the personal reasons for hunting. I firmly believe the main
attraction for this "Pin-Head Platoon" is to KILL.
Do they ever go to a shooting range? How many shoot at a target of concentric circles rather than a silhouette of a man?
"Game Management"...my arse.
"Hunting to eat"...my other arse. Perhaps the game is eaten but it's not a method for survival.....so lets not use that one.
Say it like it is....You guys hunt for the thrill of the kill. The Pump of Power.
Deny that and you're lying.
I'm in my trench now awaiting another bumbling attack from this army of Hemmingways and Audie Murphys led by the audacious General Goat.
Bring it on, you frauds, but keep in mind....I'll be visiting Sharky's in a little while for a strategy planning session.
Meet my Army.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bonanza bucko
...sure would be nice if execrable zealots such as Dennis would go off by themselves and admire their prejudices while leaving the rest of us alone in
our pleasures. |
I'll go nowhere........
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_YurxhisgJvE/TAFWfMX4y-I/AAAAAAAACS...
| Quote: | | We hurt no one by ethical hunting and while we enjoy it we share the magnificence of God's creation and creatures with others like ourselves.
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Yes....of course.
http://media.photobucket.com/image/picture%20of%20a%20shotgu...
| Quote: |
But we get very peeed off at busy bodies such as this street corner lecturer who think, somehow, that their vision of reality should be poured on
everyone else, like it or not. |
You call it pouring....I call it something else:
http://www.take-a-trip.eu/uploads/pics_bezienswaardigheden_n...
| Quote: |
believe it or not, they are the ones who loudly preach "nonjudgmentalism" |
Me??? You definitly have me confused with someone else. I have you judged as a self-rightous, frustrated serial killer who cheapens your cause and
appeal with your closed, defensive mini-mind.
Lock 'n Load....ready on the firing line....
Yeah...right. You be sure and tell me when and where I should voice my opinion. You'll need one of your arsenal of firearms to enforce that one.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Since Pompano has so far paid heed to my warning (WHOOP, WHOOP, ALERT, ALERT, DANGER AHEAD!!!) I won’t look for a Thank You Jorge, I’ll just forge
ahead.
Roger has once again opened the door to the question “What kind of forum is Baja Nomad?” He believes it is his personal confessional, politician’s
stump and billboard about his hunting escapades in the U.S. and Canada since he was a wee lad. Better name: Idle Rich Canadian Hunters who visit
Mexico Sometimes, Dot Com.
It was inevitable that Dennis and others would chime in after this particular intrusion – bringing Pompano’s SUBJECT OF THE DAY in to replace threads
about BAJA CALIFORNIA. In this case bringing an expert witness to his trial – validating what he does by waltzing in a war hero and his son. Sheese.
Those are good guys. Leave them out of it.
When I lived in the U.S. (Nevada), I was a hunter. Mostly I hunted chukar in northern Nevada with a few of my buddies. We followed the rules, got the
proper permits, kept to the limits. In those days we had no knowledge of conservation groups like Ducks Unlimited, etc. but in our trips to northern
Nevada we did make an economic impact in the little towns close to where we hunted. We always observed the limit (usually six birds) and at one
memorable fireside after-the-hunt sit down we took the time to estimate just how deep was our passion, dollar wise. The stomping up and down countless
hills after the illusive birds was often offset by the fun of playing and paying at Houses of Pleasure in tiny hamlets in the north country. We took
the time to tally up the cost for our NEED TO KILL, NEED TO HUNT and discovered that a good average cost per hunt, without over-reaching our limit of
six birds was approximately $465 per pound.
None of us believed much of the money made its way to animal conservation groups. Now that I think of it, perhaps the money we left at the Green
Lantern and The Cottontail Ranch simply perpetuated the commerce, caused there to be more hunters with licenses, in season the next year.
We had no need to explain or apologize to anyone, anywhere.
Would another 10,000 words, 800 pix make you feel better Pompano?
Wiki up Hubris dude, then chill. Just do all the killing and grillin that makes you happy. We, BAJA NOMADS will still be down here chatting about this
little part of Mexico – Mr. Means loves Baja California threads.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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I'm not defending hunters. There're more than enough "slob hunters" to cast a shadow over hunting. Maybe it's in my genes? It's just something that I
enjoy. Killing? Now that's a different story. Mixed feelings, happy with a successful hunt and saddened by the death of a beautiful animal. Weird? The
term "conundrum" might apply.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
"conundrum" might apply. |
That's what those terrible Goose hunters are supposed to use when they pile up in those cramped blinds.
Hunting is all about safety...ya know. 
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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No, I don't know. Tell me about it.
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Mulegena
Super Nomad
Posts: 2412
Registered: 11-7-2006
Member Is Offline
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Poachers could be tracked through their DNA
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14811134
"Raise your words, not your voice. It's rain that grows flowers, not thunder." ~Rumi
"It's the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." ~ Aristotle
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Osprey, had the same realization many moons ago.. myself... only fishing trips.. and I catch and release ... but, the cost per fish kept getting
higher and higher ... as we moved from "roughing it" when young... to motel's, restaurants, and casino's as I grew older .. don't like fish.. fresh
or salt.. can get them down .. but, prefer beef, pork chicken... and slaughtered by someone else.. can do it if required .. and have .. but, it was a
job I did not enjoy ... like the food/meals derived.. but, the slaughter ...... not a lot of fun to me and a lot of "just work".. depending on the
size of the animal... one beef is a lot .. as is a large deer or elk.. or hog ... just saying...
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18384
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bonanza bucko
We hurt no one by ethical hunting and while we enjoy it we share the magnificence of God's creation and creatures with others like ourselves.
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you are sick in the head to think that killing the animal does not hurt the animal. and you are not enjoying god's creation if killing god's
creation.
you are psychopath that takes joy in killing. how ca you find any joy in killing?
sick, sick, sick!
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by bonanza bucko
We hurt no one by ethical hunting and while we enjoy it we share the magnificence of God's creation and creatures with others like ourselves.
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you are sick in the head
you are psychopath that takes joy in killing.
sick, sick, sick! |
Jeez! Get a grip mtgoat666.
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Want to fish!!!
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So if you are not doing the killing, all is good???? &%#$@ !!!! Let someone else do the dirty work??? *&%$@#!!! Your hands are clean, that is
all that matters.
Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel!
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3288
Registered: 1-11-2007
Location: Buena Vista BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tranquilo
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I'll bet Roger is having a good laugh. Just goes to show what a great fisherman he is, he knows just what bait to use for what he is fishing for.
Way to go Roger and thanks for the post.....dt
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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I can only speak for myself and I do not wish to criticize others. My best is to try and not target individuals but rather, the object of the
discussion. I said "try",although sometimes I slip.
Roger is a friend. He is a big man who lives large. We are most often at opposite ends of the political spectrum but we can sit down and discuss our
differences without any residual animosity.
Roger has an imposing presence and carves his path with a swill and a swagger. Some people are offended by that. I am not. One thing that helps is
that he has many endearing qualities. Face to face he is a kind, respectful gentleman, and he has not betrayed me behind my back.
Roger is the best Photojournalist on this forum. His photography and storytelling skills are spellbinding. In my opinion, his work is publishable and
marketable!
So, to the topic-
I do not like hunting! The thought of it conjures an emotional response of sadness. As a child, I shot a bird out of a tree with a BB gun to see what
killing feels like. I had an unexpected and immediate response of horror and remorse. I wished I could have reversed the action I had taken to end
that bird's life. I knew right then and there that I would never do that again.
As for enjoying the outdoors, the splendid scenery and wildlife that nature provides, I can get that by backpacking and shooting with my camera...and
do. In the Northern California Gold Country my house is located in a vacation wonderland. On my property many species of wildlife come up from the
canyon and wander. I can sit on my deck at dawn or dusk and watch the parade.
We have bear, deer, fox, coyote, raccoon, skunk and mountain lion too. (I have never seen a mountain lion, on my property but have seen them in the
neighborhood). Mountain lion is the only species I fear, mostly for my dog who will chase anything. He tore down the hill to confront a huge,
Volkswagen-sized bear. The bear turned around and started to go back down the hill and my dog bit him on the butt. Obviously, neither he nor the bear
knows what could happen.
Finally, to tie this in with Baja-
I have had two different boats in Mulege. To get out on the water adds at least another 50% to the quality of life there. Just to be out there is the
thrill for me. Here comes the confession: I like to fish! Is that
hypocritical? Perhaps it could be judged so by some others. I have questioned it myself and have decided it is not.
I think that fish, being a cold water animal, does not feel pain to the degree that a warm blooded animal does. I really don't know this for a fact,
but I cannot relate to a fish like I can to other animals. I can look it in the eye and not feel much empathy. I cannot do that with an animal or a
bird.
One time, when I kept a couple of exotic Chinese Goldfish, I would tell people that I prefer "them to other pets because they enable me to work on my
social skills." But they were fat and stupid. They overate and ended up permanently swimming and floating upside down. I eventually sent them to the
ocean through the toilet.
I prefer to go out on my own boat rather than on other's because I want to come in when I feel like it rather that trying to catch the last fish of
the day. I am a fair weather fisherman too. I hate being cold. I only catch what I can eat. I am not a passionate fisherman. I enjoy catching a pinto
bass as much as a Yellowtail. It is not about the fight. You don't even know you have a Pinto Bass until you start to reel in. It feels just like you
have an old waterlogged shoe on your hook. They sure are good eating though. Just being on the water is the thrill for me.
So... cut Roger some slack. He is passionate about everything! If you disagree, state it along with your reasons, but to attack him is
pointless.
Edited to say: While I was writing this Ridge posted with the same BB gun experience, killing a bird as a child, and had the same immediate revulsion.
Maybe he and I are lucky that we had that experience early on.
A similar early experience probably prevented me from becoming an alcoholic. (Two beers or glasses of wine is my limit. Roger, or anyone else who
knows me will attest to that). When I was 15 and too young to drive, I went out with some 16 year old friends in a station wagon. I wanted to see what
it feels like to get drunk. Well, I chugged a sixpack of Stout Malt Liquor. We went to the movies. I started to black out and barfed on a woman's head
in the seat in front of me and down the neck of her blouse.  The poor woman
was screaming and my friends bolted for the exits, laughing. I was deserted, helplessly sitting like Gumby in my theater seat, unable to move. The
manager and ushers came and escorted me out the front door and threw me on the sidewalk. My friends picked me up and when I got home and in bed, I
vomited all over my pillow. It was in my hair and I was ill there for two days. My mother came into the room and the smell drove her out and she
slammed the door. She left me in there for two days to suffer without her help. To this day, if I have more than two drinks, I start to feel nauseous
and stop. I have never really been drunk since.
[Edited on 9-10-2011 by toneart]
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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I do love to fish but never felt the draw to hunting. Even when we fish we immediately release anything that will not be served on our table that
evening. Just seems like the right thing to do.
This is one of those arguments that will rarely ever convince anybody to change their opinion so with that disclaimer I'll add my dos centavos as a
non-hunter.
Our family includes several avid hunters and every single one of them fits Rogers description to the letter of what a good hunter should be. In fact I
know that at least a couple of them have turned in varmints who were hunting outside the law and it is something that angers all of them greatly.
When I hear them talk about their times shared hunting with friends I have never once heard any of them talk about a "thrill" in seeing an animal die.
In fact they take a lot of care to make sure that they can get a clean shot at an animal that will not let it escape, wounded. That includes passing
up a shot if they are not convinced that will happen.
When I stop to think of my motivations for fishing they strongly parallel Roger's reasons for hunting. Sharing time with good friends, enjoying a
beautiful day out on the water, watching the dolphins, seals and other wildlife and the hope of landing some great fish for dinner. The strike is a
"thrill" and being able to bring a great tuna, white sea bass or halibut aboard is always an experience as they never make it easy.
The thought of enjoying it for the "thrill" of killing a fish is something I fail to comprehend and yet I will not argue with others who believe that.
Maybe there is something in their past that made a strong impression and I respect that. I am sure there may be some out there who may get that
"thrill" from seeing a fish / animal die and those are simply psychopaths. They really have no place in this discussion IMHO.
We have a huge responsibility to care for this environment in which we live and from which we also eat. We are who we are, created by our Maker as
hunters and gatherers and this thread certainly won't change any of that.
Peace, love and fish (or veggie) tacos...
[Edited on 9-10-2011 by BajaGringo]
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