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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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There is a simple logical question, what is the identity of the culprits who stole, dismantled or scuttled the pangas?
To answer this question requires critical thinking, not name calling and supposition.
It does often seem that logic is somewhat amiss in this arena, and that muddled thought flourishes which is an understandable result of a lack of
logical and critical thinking.
The question about what is the identity of the culprits is important because it is important to our communities survival. It is possible to answer the
question(s) using research and experience to validate answer the 5 Ws and H, or Who, What, Where, When Why and How and doing so would be the first
step to helping our community survive, versus division, aggression and fighting among us.
Perhaps the answers we find may surprise us and are overwhelming at first, though it would be helpful if as a community we could put together a list
of possible scenarios, motives, what ifs, discuss the process of removing all these pangas and logistics and begin to understand what we are up
against in order to offer solutions to the problem.
Anybody?
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Udo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6346
Registered: 4-26-2008
Location: Black Hills, SD/Ensenada/San Felipe
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Mood: TEQUILA!
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Try to use that logic with the local cops trying to find those thieves and see how far you get.
Udo
Youth is wasted on the young!
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18398
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mike odell
Cabo Las Vegas Ron; You are not in Baja, your opinions don't have merit. |
yes, ron, don't you know that only the provincials' opinions have merit! how audacious of you to express an opinion outside of your little
neighborhood! don't you know your opinions don't have merit beyond your city limits!
of course, the same applies to mike odell -- one wonders how he can dare to express an opinion about ron, when mike odell's opinions have no merit
north of geurrero negro!
[Edited on 12-8-2011 by mtgoat666]
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
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Registered: 7-2-2006
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Points to consider:
This is not an unsophisticated region, there is a highly organized presence of marines, navy, army, local, state and federal police. There is a fleet
of small planes that do fly to cover the region daily and also vessels that patrol in addition to broad tools to identify movements such as satellite
and radar. It is possible to understand the movements of vessels in the region.
Cabo is Cabo meaning the end, there is no place to go that can not be seen easily by road or by sea or by air. It's not possible to show up anywhere
with these vessels or motors and not be detected by practically anyone, boats and motors have signatures (serial numbers) and must be registered, one
can not move about in an unregistered panga.
Point is there are only a few possibilities here and all require vast resources to move these craft or to dismantle and scuttle or sink them. We may
never know the answer but the possibilities shed light on what the community is up against.
Please, consider that your responses of frustration with aggression are not in any helpful to the community or yourself and do not lead toward the
truth.
I personally do not know what happened, I am interested in finding out and I am interested in the sociology in society that presents itself in this
manner, that is some portion are preying upon others. Those type of people that prey on others may be crazy and evil but they do have a goal and
process and we need to understand it to compete and stop them.
Let's start using our minds to consider what is possible here, what is the possible identity and form of the culprits who are removing our pangas, and
suspend personal attacks on each other in our extended community, instead let's work on methods to investigate and support an open dialogue that
allow broad ideas, presented as something to consider, and try on, not as proven fact yet, but ideas worth considering and trying out in a didactic
discussion.
What would it take to remove and scuttle pangas in the night, consider the weight, location, man power, how are motors removed, where could they could
be, why and how?
[Edited on 12-8-2011 by gnukid]
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Most people around here are informed and way ahead of you but it is still a daunting task.
With panga size boats you register the boat with the Port Captain. The motor is never registered so the only identifier would be if the owner could
now give authorities the HP, the year and the serial number (which they probably do). That's why the boats are sunk, the motors stolen. The bigger
motors would necessitate a boom or davit with a tackle block which points to the shrimpers. Lots of places on camarronera to hide motors. They sell
the motors on the mainland when they go back over that way -- not very far = 130 miles or.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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A shrimp boat has winches, booms, cutting tools etc. Would be no problem to lift an outboard motor aboard. Might have to drop some weight in the panga
to sink it? Don't pangas have built-in flotation? Or, they could just place extra fuel on the panga and run it across to the mainland, about 150
miles. It's possible.
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Osprey
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Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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These are fiberglass launches (mostly ARCA) and they are very hard to sink. Two floatation chambers and keel-long and transverse PVC pipes give them
great buoyancy.
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
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Mood: Want to fish!!!
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Have any of the previously heisted motors or hulls ever shown up again??? Hulls washed up on the beach??? Motors found for sale??? Start checking all
the boat and outboard shops between Cabo, and say, Santa Rosalia. How hard is it to re-register a "new" or "salvaged" hull?? These local pangueros
need to start a night watch program among themselves. Do many gringo boats get stolen in the area as well?
Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel!
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gnukid
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You would need the power of a truck to push the boats in the water or pull them with a winch out toward a waiting large vessel. The boats could be
tied in line and towed by a small boat, but the sound would be heard. I can hear motors in the night from far away and know when boats are being moved
from quite a distance though if I recall it was high seas and windy so not possible for easy transit or launch in a panga.
These pangas would likely be low on fuel or have no tanks over night since they need to filled each day and so forth. so the boats likely would not
move independently.
It's not possible to register a panga or sell most coop pangas easily in Mex as far as I have heard, the port captain is someone I know so I'll ask
him. Maybe he'll tell me the truth.
So it appears there would be the requirement of a large support craft to remove the motors and not sure what could be done with the pangas.
I suppose it's possible that the motors are stolen and sold across the SOC by the large fishing fleets and there is the chance of finding the stolen
motors there, now there have 20-40 motors so there must be some chance of identifying them and the presence of so many motors could be noticed.
At this rate its surprising there is not a constant watch out for thieves, though that is certainly not a fun job.
And where are the pangas?
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
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Mood: Want to fish!!!
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A single panga with a quiet 4 stroke could tow 2, maybe 3 away at a time, so a couple pre-stolen pangas to haul them away, either to a large ship, or
to a secluded beach. Onto trailers, or into a large cargo hold. Adios!!! A run to the mainland would be a problem of logistics and attrition. Watch
those shrimpers for sure. Though night watches are not a fun job, no panga, no job at all!
Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel!
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Insurance thefts?
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
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Mood: Want to fish!!!
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In the U.S., option one! Here, doubt they are insured, but I could be wrong. Probably too many players to keep quiet, word would leak out eventually.
Keep your eyes on the road, and your hands upon the wheel!
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BajaBruno
Super Nomad
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Registered: 9-6-2006
Location: Back in CA
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The most effective means to keep high-value property from being stolen is to make it unsellable, usually by a serial number. This, however, requires
a federal database (such as the U.S. NCIC database of stolen goods) that is accessible to all police departments in the country. I don't know if
Mexico has such a system.
If, however, the states have a searchable database of boat registration numbers, then the boat owners could use an inexpensive stamping tool to stamp
their registration numbers on the block of the engines, or maybe the lower unit. Both the block and lower unit are aluminum and should stamp easily.
I am making assumptions, of course, that port captains or law enforcement would check for the numbers and that the states have an enforceable law that
makes it illegal to possess an item in which the identification number has been filed off. If the practice received some support and publicity in
fishing communities, it might encourage the authorities to check the stamped number against the boat registration number and ask some questions if
there were a disparity.
Either way, it is something simple and proactive that the boat owners could try and also that the foreign community could help with, rather than just
b-tching about the awful state of affairs.
Christopher Bruno, Elk Grove, CA.
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slimshady
Nomad
Posts: 291
Registered: 9-3-2008
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Mike, La Ribera is not in Bahia las Palmas? Really I think your idiot lashing out has thrown you into the troll line up. If you think mexicans in BCS
are sitting there waiting for the handouts of generous Americanos and Canadianos then you are mistaken. Whether one choses to get $150 dollar GPS unit
to attach to their boat which cost them $45,000 plus dollars is simply wise.
Just because you post, dosen't mean you know anything. Go away now.
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slimshady
Nomad
Posts: 291
Registered: 9-3-2008
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All those motors from la ribera which which according to Mike which is not in the bay of palms, are probably sitting in evidence in San Diego County
and Orange County. If the fisherman have copies of their engine paperwork with serial numbers perhaps we can have them run through law enforcement
data bases such as NCIS. It might be difficult to gather up all the serial numbers, many if those engines end up washed up looking nothing like new
and all painted black, but t least they may get them back.
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
The navy has a fleet small planes that fly over the SOC regularly at night |
Are you sure of this? Where are they taking off and landing at night? The only planes I know off that fly at night over the SOC are the 210's that
get ripped off at the Serenidad!!!
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3290
Registered: 1-11-2007
Location: Buena Vista BCS
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Mood: Tranquilo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by slimshady
Mike, La Ribera is not in Bahia las Palmas? Really I think your idiot lashing out has thrown you into the troll line up. If you think mexicans in BCS
are sitting there waiting for the handouts of generous Americanos and Canadianos then you are mistaken. Whether one choses to get $150 dollar GPS unit
to attach to their boat which cost them $45,000 plus dollars is simply wise.
Just because you post, dosen't mean you know anything. Go away now. |
Well Mike, there you have it. Guess you'll be joining Jesse 
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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Barry A.
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Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Who is "Mike"?? and which "post" is his???
Barry
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3290
Registered: 1-11-2007
Location: Buena Vista BCS
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Go back to page 1 and catch up Barry.
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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slimshady
Nomad
Posts: 291
Registered: 9-3-2008
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Mike Odell from page 1 who claims he is from La Ribera on the East Cape however does not know the Bay of Palms or where it is. A troll uncovered!
Probably thinks San Quintín is a state prison.
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