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Russ
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4 trawlers in sight now. a single smaller one anchored inside and 3 larger ones anchored about 5 miles out.
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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scouter
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This is so sad , unfortunately the mex gov controls ocean gardens and most all the fishery in there country , this crap has been going on for years ,
some one needs to reach out to sea shepherds maybe they could do something, when I had my boat in Loreto years ago there was a guy Mike McGettigan /
sea watch ( good guy) with a group of volunteers working to save the mantas he was successful in slowing this down but his funding was limited and so
he slowed down , this really disappoints me to no end... I don't understand why they don't work the pacific side I helped a friend take his boat to
Cabo last month and the bait in the water from Cedro's south was abundant and there was no signs of any commercial fishing, we saw lots of shrimpers
but they were mostly idle or traveling we tracked them at night and they never dragged any of the normal fishing spots.
real bummer when the fish and sea life is gone so will be the rest of there economy along the water front
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Spearo
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What a shame. Probably just being ground into fish meal.
You won't have big fish without little fish.
Growing up in Florida, the inshore mullet netting used to decimate the fishing in the Everglades. They finally banned the practice and the size and
number of tarpon, redfish and snook shot up immediately. The ocean can and will heal itself if we would get our boot off its neck.
Were it not for the abdomen, man would easily reckon himself a god.
Friedrich Nietzsche
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Cypress
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Spearo
What a shame. Probably just being ground into fish meal.
You won't have big fish without little fish.
Growing up in Florida, the inshore mullet netting used to decimate the fishing in the Everglades. They finally banned the practice and the size and
number of tarpon, redfish and snook shot up immediately. The ocean can and will heal itself if we would get our boot off its neck.
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Skeet/Loreto
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Pomp:
I know that you know that this has been going on for many years.
The Fishing will be real good next year!!
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Vince
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Over harvesting of sardines is just another example of how the Mexican Federal Govt. has lost control of it's resources. Conception Bay is the result.
Remember when it used to be pristine with pompano, hatchet clams and whales and rooster fish? Mostly gone now. With a little enforcement these
species would have endured. The modern day Mexican kids never experienced that abundance.
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vivaloha
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it stinks when these greedy bastards rape nature for profit...
the shrimpers really destroy the ocean too...
these fish companies have no shame
sad state of affairs...
Baja California can be a heaven or hell experience - often the determining factor is your AWARENESS in the moment.
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Pompano
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wessongroup
Maybe they can introduce an Asian Carp ... which does well in sea water... |
Hola wessongroup, I know you well enough from your past posts to realize that you're a good person and mean well for Baja and the environment. But
introducing an invasive species like the Asian Carp could only aggravate our current fishery decline.
All four of the Asian carps that are established in the United States spread quickly after introduction, became very abundant, and hurt native fishes
either by damaging habitats or by consuming vast amounts of food. Common and grass carps destroy habitat and reduce water quality for native fishes by
uprooting or consuming aquatic vegetation.
Bighead and silver carps are large filter-feeders that compete with larval fishes, paddlefish, bigmouth buffalo, and freshwater mollusks (clams). In
addition, boaters have been injured by silver carp because they commonly jump out of the water and into or over boats in response to outboard motors.
Black carp, which consume almost exclusively mussels and snails, may further threaten the State's already imperiled native freshwater mussels should
they become established.
A very good intention,wessongroup, just the wrong fish.
Now...if only walleyes could survive in saltwater, eh?
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Russ
4 trawlers in sight now. a single smaller one anchored inside and 3 larger ones anchored about 5 miles out.
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those are not trawlers. they are seiners. same boat can do both types of fishing, just need to switch equipment, but the boats in your picture are
set up for seining
re sardines, they are a migratory boom and bust fish that is not particularly endangered in SOC or Pacific. i don't see these particular instance as
an overfishing, when looked at on large scale, even though the locals may have narrower local view and see this as doom. do some reading on the fish,
the fish will recover, and the predators that follow sardines will move onto where the sardines are more numerous.
i note a tendency for nomads to jump on all commercial seines and trawls as indication of the end of the world.
p.s. skeet's logic is nonsense.
[Edited on 12-19-2011 by mtgoat666]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sweetwater
It's too bad there is no way to Monkey Wrench an activity like those commercial boats. If there is no enforcement/regulations to prevent over
harvests, the resources will surely suffer. And it's always the locals who depend on those resources who pay the price without any of the
benefit...... |
who says there is no enforcement?
you have no idea if there is enforcement, but seem quick to recommend sabotage of fishermen's equipment.
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Pompano
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Actually, there are two distinctive types of seiners...the ones on Russ's photos are 'purse' seiners as opposed to 'Danish' seiners. Purse seiners
have further categories...a lot depends on what tightening mechanism is used..a horizontal drum or a more vertical block and tackle-type winch. The
power block is the more effective and easier to handle...
Properly used to accomplish it's devastating goal...a purse seiner with expert set-boat handlers will capture an entire school of sardines in one
set...of course they still have to separate the by-catch, like certain Nomads.
tick-tock...tick-tock
[Edited on 12-19-2011 by Pompano]
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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captkw
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pompano
good morning,do you know if they use turtle exculder's or anything of the sort......speaking of turtle's, just a few year's ago before they built the
crap (my deff.) from san jose to cabo we would camp on the beach's and around xmas Ive had olive's (big) come up on the beach and lay eggs right near
my camp..THat was cool and in the morn they would leave 3or so pile's of sand to keep the seagul's confused.. nat geo out side my tent.. and dinner
was only a coulpe a cast's away and that was on a slow day!! Keith & lil tasha 
[Edited on 12-19-2011 by captkw]
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wessongroup
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Just throwing in a one liner, about how not to choose a particular species ... Pomp ... that asian crap thingy is NO joke, as you bring out ... as
well as the fishing pressure being applied to the Sea of Cortez... but, I certainly don't have to tell you and all the others that have and do fish in
the Sea of Cortez .... in some cases over half a century ...
Agree that effective game management is something which is necessary along with a citizenry population who supports it ... it has been proven to
work .. not perfect in all cases but, it does work ..
Would also say I find it very encouraging that most all we hear from on this topic at BN's have such strong appreciation and respect for the outdoors
and the wildlife... be it Baja or Alaska ... That can only help ..... plus ya got a few here who pick up stray dogs and cats .. guess they are Baja
wildlife too ... Nice folks here 
[Edited on 12-19-2011 by wessongroup]
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Russ
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I do understand about fish stocks and the cycles they go through. However I believe if the stock of one fish become to low to maintain itself the
recovery is a maybe. Look how long the sardines took to recover in Calif. and the blue fin tuna in most of the oceans are a big question mark. Yes
some of us are in panic mode with what we see as a depleted resource. While others have a different view of things. But, I believe that all will agree
(I hope) there is a need to conserve and enhance our oceans resources. I like the idea of selectively closing all fishing in small areas while that
area recovers to support a manageable fishing industry and rotating areas as farmers have learned to do with crops. Mexico does have laws and programs
on the books but corruption and lack of enforcement is still a major hurtle to be over come. IMHO
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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watizname
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Good management is the answer. Halibut and White Seabass stocks along the So. Cal. coast have increased dramatically in the last few years, since the
implimentation of netting regulations, size and bag limits. For years, a legal 22 inch halibut was a rarity, and white seabass were almost a lost
legend, whispered about around the docks, and tackle shops. Now around the islands you can get nice 15/20 lb halibut, and some of the white seabass
bites are epic. Mexico needs enforcement of it's regs. This is a real bummer. Not only will the modern day Mexican kids not see the past abundance,
neither will our kids and grandkids.
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Sweetwater
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Sweetwater
It's too bad there is no way to Monkey Wrench an activity like those commercial boats. If there is no enforcement/regulations to prevent over
harvests, the resources will surely suffer. And it's always the locals who depend on those resources who pay the price without any of the
benefit...... |
who says there is no enforcement?
you have no idea if there is enforcement, but seem quick to recommend sabotage of fishermen's equipment.
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Your ignorance is showing.....No where do I suggest sabotage....
And there has been no evidence of enforcement demonstrated either....
[Edited on 12-19-2011 by Sweetwater]
Everbody\'s preachin\' at me that we all wanna git to heaven, trouble is, nobody wants to die to git there.-BB King
Reality is what does not go away when you stop believing in it. -Philip K Dick
Nothing is worse than active ignorance. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe(1749-1832, German writer, artist and politician)
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I\'ve never tried before. - Mae West
Experience is what keeps a man who makes the same mistake twice from admitting it the third time around.
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LancairDriver
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Watch a new series called "Big Shrimpin" on the Gulf of Mexico on the History channel if you would like a first hand view of the raping of the oceans
that goes on every day worldwide. Every drag they pull up and discard more fish than shrimp to the tune of thousands of pounds per boat. I'm surprised
the boats allow the filming of this, and of course no mention of the by catch is ever made. I personally know fishermen on draggers here in Oregon who
routinely pull up a net full of the wrong kind of fish they are after and dump as much as 8000 lbs. in one pull.
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Islandbuilder
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Draggers, bottom draggers particularly, have a huge impact on the entire marine environment. Dragging in the Bering Sea has destroyed crab stocks, and
plowed the bottom into a benthic version of a WWI battle field.
Do any of you know how licenses are managed in MX? Is it limited entry, or wide open? Are there IFQ's or is it wide open?
Some of you lament the loss of the old ways, but what I'm reading about and seeing is that there is a ton more environmental oversight now then there
was 20 or 30 years ago.
When the Japanese fished the SOC to a standstill in the 1980's, I think that they reduced stocks almost to the limit of their ability to recover. If
(big if) those stocks have now recovered (reports of greatly improved sport fishing seem to make that at least a possibility) perhaps a limited and
controlled commercial fishery can be sustained.
BTW, the term "Money Wrench" means sabotage, perhaps you didn't know that Sweetwater?
Not too comfortable with the branding of these commercial guys as greedy, they're just doing their job and supporting their families the best they
know how. They may be taking more than they should, or they may be well within the terms of their permits (if they have any), and no one ashore would
be able to tell. Catching your sport limit, or a bit more, every day, for the entire season, can also be termed "greedy", it's a bit too subjective to
have any merit, IMHO.
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Sweetwater
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I know very well what Monkey Wrench means..........now read the rest of my statement....maybe read it several times out loud.......while looking in
the mirror....so that you understand what was actually said vs the accusation you propagate......
Everbody\'s preachin\' at me that we all wanna git to heaven, trouble is, nobody wants to die to git there.-BB King
Reality is what does not go away when you stop believing in it. -Philip K Dick
Nothing is worse than active ignorance. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe(1749-1832, German writer, artist and politician)
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I\'ve never tried before. - Mae West
Experience is what keeps a man who makes the same mistake twice from admitting it the third time around.
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Islandbuilder
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Registered: 11-9-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sweetwater
I know very well what Monkey Wrench means..........now read the rest of my statement....maybe read it several times out loud.......while looking in
the mirror....so that you understand what was actually said vs the accusation you propagate...... |
Cool.
A measuring contest! Since I'm well past 14 I don't think I need to play
It might be a good idea, since more than one of us is mis-understanding your intent, that you re-state your point using different words.
All I can come up with is that you're differentiating Monkey Wrenching fishing activities, and the boats themselves? That is too subtle a difference
to justify your defensiveness, again, IMHO.
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