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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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But can he arrive in a Mexican flagged commercial(being paid for by the fishermen) boat?
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
And if you believe that Mexico has the right to kick anyone out of their territorial waters, then they also have the right to expropriate all real
estate owned in Mexico by foreigners without compensation...anytime they want. |
Power doesn't need rights. Power makes rights.
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Mengano
Banned
Posts: 1238
Registered: 9-26-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
But can he arrive in a Mexican flagged commercial(being paid for by the fishermen) boat? |
Well, they don't "arrive" because they don't land at a US port. But I have news for you, all those cruise liners that ply US waters are foreign
flagged and are operated for commercial purposes. And again, sportfishing, is not commercial fishing. Sportfishing has daily bag and species limits
and restrictions. Don't confuse the two.
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sancho
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2524
Registered: 10-6-2004
Location: OC So Cal
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajalou
But can he arrive in a Mexican flagged commercial(being paid for by the fishermen) boat? |
Nice hypothetical, why should the Popotla pangas
running 20 illegals at a time, risking their lives 40 mi.
at sea, just get Ca. Fishing Licenses and cruise up
the SD Coast pretending they are fishing?
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
And again, sportfishing, is not commercial fishing. Sportfishing has daily bag and species limits and restrictions. Don't confuse the two.
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Splitting hairs, are you Mengano? That sport fishing boat is certainly a commercial venture.
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Mengano
Banned
Posts: 1238
Registered: 9-26-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by sancho
Nice hypothetical, why should the Popotla pangas running 20 illegals at a time, risking their lives 40 mi. at sea, just get Ca. Fishing Licenses and
cruise up the SD Coast pretending they are fishing? |
Because out here in the real world, where people know what they are doing, the US Coast Guard can tell on sight the difference between a boat with
some people fishing and a panga with 25 people on board heading North.
Besides, as anybody else can tell you, a fishing license is not a visa.
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Mengano
Banned
Posts: 1238
Registered: 9-26-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Splitting hairs, are you Mengano? That sport fishing boat is certainly a commercial venture. |
No, these are defined terms in the law. Recreational fishing, also called sport fishing, is fishing for pleasure or competition. It can be contrasted
with commercial fishing, which is fishing for profit.
Now contrast that with chartering a boat for profit. Do you understand that the chartering of a boat and fishing from the boat are two different
things? If the fish caught do not belong to the boat's master, and he cannot sell them, and they are caught by licensed sport fisherman who also
cannot legally sell them, then the boat is not engaged in commercial fishing.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
Now contrast that with chartering a boat for profit. Do you understand that the chartering of a boat and fishing from the boat are two different
things? If the fish caught do not belong to the boat's master, and he cannot sell them, and they are caught by licensed sport fisherman who also
cannot legally sell them, then the boat is not engaged in commercial fishing. |
But...putting the craft up for charter, regardless of the onboard activities, is a waterborne business.
[Edited on 1-10-2012 by DENNIS]
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The Gull
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Posts: 2223
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Location: Rancho Descanso, BCN
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Mood: High
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Whaaaat? The Mexican Navy does not accept mordida or the SD operations don't offer it?
Bad policy either way.
�I won\'t insult your intelligence by suggesting that you really believe what you just said.� William F. Buckley, Jr.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by The Gull
Whaaaat? The Mexican Navy does not accept mordida |
Don't need it. They have the Merida Initiative. We pay for that too.
Nice to see you here Sr. Gull.
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J.P.
Super Nomad
Posts: 1673
Registered: 7-8-2010
Location: Punta Banda
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Mood: Easy Does It
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
And if you believe that Mexico has the right to kick anyone out of their territorial waters, then they also have the right to expropriate all real
estate owned in Mexico by foreigners without compensation...anytime they want. |
Power doesn't need rights. Power makes rights. |
If you are informed as you say you are they can do the same thing in the U.S. regarding your property
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larryC
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Have to agree with Mengano on this one. Sure a charter boat is a business but it is not engaged in "commercial fishing". As Mengano said, they have to
abide by the sport limits and species limitations imposed by Mexican law. If they were doing that, and there is no indication that they weren't, then
they shouldn't have been asked to leave Mexican waters. I used to own and opereate a dive charter boat out of San Diego, at that time ( before the
year 2000) in order to enter Mexican waters every one on board had to have a Mexican fishing license and the boat had to have a boat license. At that
time for my boat it was about $250 a month. Plus the cost of the indivdual fishing license. Pretty much made Coronado Islands too expensive. They (the
Mexican govt.) did allow that if there were no fishing activities and no one on board had any fishing gear, then we could dive the Coronado Islands
without permits. I was boarded on 2 occasions and did not have any problems.
Larry
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Things have changed...there was no Arizona crisis...now payback is a B#(@h!!
We as Americans have to pay for the actions of the federal and state government through no fault of our own...
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
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Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Mia culpa...
Wow...getting on the intercom and the captain having to announce it was his fault reminds me of the hostage situation when the Iraquis would make the
US hostages on international television state the US was at fault..what's next??? televised public beheadings??? | Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
A San Diego-based sport boat along with several private boaters were booted out of Mexican waters Saturday shortly after noon and just one week into
Mexico’s new, highly disputed visa requirement for sport anglers who fish within 24 miles of Mexico’s coastline.
The problem is Capt. Mike Schmidt’s 43 anglers aboard his sport boat, the Malihini, out of H&M Landing, had their proper Mexican visas and fishing
permits, but the boat was kicked out of the Middle Grounds of the Coronado Islands and told to return to U.S. waters.
Schmidt said the captain of the Mexican navy boat that stopped him didn’t ask for visas, but instead demanded to see the Malihini’s boat permit. Such
a document does not exist, according to Michelle Gandola, an official with the Sportfishing Association of California, and has not existed since 2008.
Tony Estrada, an assistant in Mexico’s U.S.-based fisheries office, confirmed that such a boat permit no longer is required.
Schmidt lost more than $5,000 on the trip because he had to refund or give re-ride tickets to the anglers. Schmidt and many sport boats are
discontinuing trips into Mexico until the issue of the boat permit and the visas is addressed and settled. He suffered further humiliation when the
patrol boat captain made him get on his boat’s intercom and announce to his passengers that it was his fault, not Mexico’s, that he lacked the proper
documents to fish in Mexico.
There were no answers from Mexico as to why Schmidt was detained and then kicked out of Mexican waters.
“It was a mistake for the patrol boat captain to ask for document that no longer exists,” Estrada said.
Meantime, Hugh Kramer, owner and president of Discover Baja, a San Diego-based company that specializes in travel to Mexico, disputes the claims by
the Sportfishing Association of California and a new company, Mex Tour Assistance, that “maritime visas” are required by fishermen in Mexico.
“There is no such thing as a ‘maritime visa,’” Kramer said. “I spent six hours on the phone with Mexican immigration officials and Mexico tourism
officials in recent days, and the only visa required is the FFM, which is a multi-day visa good for 180 days. It’s for multiple entries, and it’s good
for 180 days. Right now that costs about $34, depending on the value of the peso. They have to get it stamped with an entry date, and then it’s good
for 180 days. Fishermen don’t have to buy these visas from Mex Tour Assist.”
Ken Franke, president of the Sportfishing Association of California, said questions are swirling right now, not just about the visas, but also the
boat permit that the Mexican patrol boat demanded from Schmidt on the Malihini. Franke said a meeting will be held Friday with Mexican representatives
from fisheries, immigration and tourism. He’s hoping to get some definitive answers there.
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2012/jan/09/mexican-officials...
Que poco madre. |
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Bajafun777
Super Nomad
Posts: 1103
Registered: 9-13-2006
Location: Rosarito & California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enjoying Life with Wife In Mexico, Easy on The Easy
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Had a friend that had a home taken from him in Mexico and he filed a claim with U.S.A. Government to get his loss of monies from those monies U.S.A.
and Mexico agreed to put into a holding bank for losses incurred from people in either Country from bad business practices. He used the issue of
Mexico Banks, Mexico Government Officials etc. as the reason for the claim in his loss. He still has this claim running no outcome yet.
I thought his claim was stretching the business loss thing but this boat captain would be on firm ground for filing a claim on dollars in holding from
Mexico with N.A.F.T.A. agreements. No harm in trying just not sure about the ins and outs but some attorney sure will be if in fact this is a source
of action for people. Take Care & Travel Safe----"No Hurry, No Worry, Just FUN" bajafun777
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LancairDriver
Super Nomad
Posts: 1593
Registered: 2-22-2008
Location: On the Road
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Woooosh
It is a rather stupid thing to do considering how hard Baja is trying to promote and attract tourists. |
Goes to show you how independent the military in Mexico still is from the rest of the country. They couldn't care less about tourism and are more
concerned with flexing their new-found muscles to the world.
From the Revolution til the Cartel insurgency, they didn't have a thing to do in Mexico except protect the President. Now they're a bunch of bad-asses
with new toys. |
Bought and paid for by the US taxpayer.(Or at least the 50% who pay taxes)
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by LancairDriver
Bought and paid for by the US taxpayer.(Or at least the 50% who pay taxes) |
 If this
doesn't bring Jesse out from underneith his bed, nothing will.
I agree, none the less.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18398
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by Spearo
I am not saying the charter boat was not following proper procedure. I am saying that the Mexican government has the right to kick anyone out of
their territorial waters ... |
You seem to be missing the point. The point is the Mexican government took a fishing license fee and a visa fee from those fishermen so they would be
allowed to fish in Mexican waters. You cannot charge and collect a fee for a privilege from someone and then deny them the privilege that was paid
for. Not under US, Mexican or International law.
And if you believe that Mexico has the right to kick anyone out of their territorial waters, then they also have the right to expropriate all real
estate owned in Mexico by foreigners without compensation...anytime they want. |
chucky:
the news story said the boat lacked proper permits. possessing a visa does not release you from requirement to have a permit. some gringos say succh
permits don't "exist." perhaps these gringos say the permit does not exist because they just don't have the permit. perhaps the permits do exist.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18398
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mengano
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Splitting hairs, are you Mengano? That sport fishing boat is certainly a commercial venture. |
No, these are defined terms in the law. Recreational fishing, also called sport fishing, is fishing for pleasure or competition. It can be contrasted
with commercial fishing, which is fishing for profit.
Now contrast that with chartering a boat for profit. Do you understand that the chartering of a boat and fishing from the boat are two different
things? If the fish caught do not belong to the boat's master, and he cannot sell them, and they are caught by licensed sport fisherman who also
cannot legally sell them, then the boat is not engaged in commercial fishing. |
all sounds like commerce to me!
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Lobsterman
Super Nomad
Posts: 1696
Registered: 10-7-2008
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I've been fishing the Coronado Islands and the close by deep dropoffs since 1975 & 1985 from my own boat.
I am sure most of you have heard about the boats getting boarded and turned back from the island over a bogus boat permit that no longer in exists.
This leads me to believe as I suspected, that this whole sham is being conducted from Baja California with the result being to increase sportfishing
out of Ensenada. They want the anglers to get so frustrated with the fees and BS that they will stop fishing on US boats and instead drive down to
Ensenada.
Further proof of this can be seen in the actual Visas issued to those leaving the US landings. These supposedly "new" "sea" visas are not new and are
not specifically for entry by sea as has been suggested. They are the same visas used when you land on a plane in Mexico and are given to all of the
passengers for free. This is simply extortion, plain and simple.
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