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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3294
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Location: Buena Vista BCS
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Mood: Tranquilo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
DT,
We are still friends ? 
So, do I have to eat a blubber taco when I visit?  |
Yes but don't worry, I won't need to kill a whale to get enough blubber
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT.....
--- I am a rather confused believer in situational ethics. I say confused because of so many questions in my mind.
[Edited on 7-5-2012 by DianaT] |
Diana,
One benefit of being confused is that it opens up more possibilities....being "certain" about something reduces one's options.
I think that we, as a species, are a virus on this planet....it is all unfolding as it is. If we were to consider ourselves to be parasites (perhaps
more generous a thought than being a virus), we still aren't even at the stage of being in a symbiotic relationship as a parasite, as both the host
(ie. the planet) and the parasite have mutual benefit in that type of parasitic relationship.
We just suck vitality and viability from our host....and what is most obscene, is that we think we are entitled to that sucking.
Don't believe everything you think....
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
I wish him well in his continued endeavors. |
Really Diana?
"infringing illegally upon the rights of others."
When does that stop??? |
Is it right, moral, or what? Wish I had the answer. I know I support what Paul Watson is doing --- I am a rather confused believer in situational
ethics. I say confused because of so many questions in my mind. |
Diana.
I'm confused also and we are never totally aware of the situation, but let's try this.
I support the whales 100%. I support the Harp seals 100% I support the Dolphins 100%. What I do not support is an independent effort that is in direct
opposition to law. THAT is what kills people and does nothing to solve the problem.
Are you in Imperial Beach? I see a lot of references to that city in your posts. Although I'm a tunachoker I married an I.B. girl and had homes there
for thirty years. During that time I was very involved (made my living at) commercial and sport fishing operations.
I bring this up because I helped to pretty much deplete the abalone and lobster population of the south coast in addition to many other species of
animals and fishes from the Bering Sea to Galapagos.
Someone in this earlier thread was talking about controls in the SOC and how
Watson could take care of that.
You live in BA. Think of the seasonal fisheries there. Abalone now. Envision Paul Watson coming in and telling Juan and the co-op they could no longer
dive abalone even though they are completely legal and working a sustainable fishery.
Think about what would happen to Paul Watson.
Look at what one of our BN members was able to do with abalone replenishment at where, San Martin? Because we took them all in our stupidity and now
have to rebuild stocks.
Sounds like what a lot of the world is going through for oil doesn't it? I hate to see the deaths of the innocents for natural resource greed.
Abrazos,
Cisco
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by sancho
I love this quote, one of the current Sea Shepard ships, the
Steve Irwin, renamed after the Australian crocadile conservation guy who died,
at the renaming of the ship to the Steve Irwin, his widow wife
was quoted 'Give Him Hell Paul', referring to Sea Shepards harassing the illegal, outlaw
Japan whalers, call him a narcissist, eco terrorist,
all the sucess in the World to people like P Watson,
anyone who is not on the Conservation movement is,
I'll be kind, uninformed and
short sighted |
Oh Sancho. They are not illegal or outlaw either. Just caught that part.
They are totally legal and doing what commercial fishermen do to make a legal living.
You have a problem with that take it up with the IWC.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT.....
--- I am a rather confused believer in situational ethics. I say confused because of so many questions in my mind.
[Edited on 7-5-2012 by DianaT] |
Diana,
One benefit of being confused is that it opens up more possibilities....being "certain" about something reduces one's options.
I think that we, as a species, are a virus on this planet....it is all unfolding as it is. If we were to consider ourselves to be parasites (perhaps
more generous a thought than being a virus), we still aren't even at the stage of being in a symbiotic relationship as a parasite, as both the host
(ie. the planet) and the parasite have mutual benefit in that type of parasitic relationship.
We just suck vitality and viability from our host....and what is most obscene, is that we think we are entitled to that sucking.
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I hope to never be "certain" --- it will then be time to die.
When it was all more simple and the success of a species simply meant that it lived long enough to reproduce, there was balance, a constantly changing
balance. It was the evolution of that thing we call a human brain that made balance perhaps not obtainable.
Virus--- umm I used to think parasite, but you are correct there is no mutual benefit. In my more spiritual questioning moods, when I think about
the possible existence of a god or gods, he, she or it, I sometimes see the evolution of the "big" brain as a cruel joke and picture a whole lot of
laughing going on.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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Did you spend a lot of time in jail because you also broke the law? If so when is it alright to break laws and when should we refrain?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by sancho
I love this quote, one of the current Sea Shepard ships, the
Steve Irwin, renamed after the Australian crocadile conservation guy who died,
at the renaming of the ship to the Steve Irwin, his widow wife
was quoted 'Give Him Hell Paul', referring to Sea Shepards harassing the illegal, outlaw
Japan whalers, call him a narcissist, eco terrorist,
all the sucess in the World to people like P Watson,
anyone who is not on the Conservation movement is,
I'll be kind, uninformed and
short sighted |
Sancho you have no idea who you are speaking to.
I am a staunch conservationist. Spent a lot of jail time for just that as a matter of fact. I am certainly NOT uninformed nor am I short-sighted
regarding environmental issues.
Your statement regarding disregard of International Treaty, wishing success to someone who others consider a terrorist and blindly making uninformed
statements regarding the Conservation movement are irresponsible and the kinds of thinking that nations go to war over.
Should I consider you an anarchist? Paul Watson and his inflammatory statements and actions is.
How much do you know about this man and his program??? You do realize he was kicked out of the Greenpeace program do you not?
Get your research and emotions in order before you address me as being "uninformed and short sighted" regarding this issue. |
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
I wish him well in his continued endeavors. |
Really Diana?
"infringing illegally upon the rights of others."
When does that stop??? |
Is it right, moral, or what? Wish I had the answer. I know I support what Paul Watson is doing --- I am a rather confused believer in situational
ethics. I say confused because of so many questions in my mind. |
Diana.
I'm confused also and we are never totally aware of the situation, but let's try this.
I support the whales 100%. I support the Harp seals 100% I support the Dolphins 100%. What I do not support is an independent effort that is in direct
opposition to law. THAT is what kills people and does nothing to solve the problem.
Are you in Imperial Beach? I see a lot of references to that city in your posts. Although I'm a tunachoker I married an I.B. girl and had homes there
for thirty years. During that time I was very involved (made my living at) commercial and sport fishing operations.
I bring this up because I helped to pretty much deplete the abalone and lobster population of the south coast in addition to many other species of
animals and fishes from the Bering Sea to Galapagos.
Someone in this earlier thread was talking about controls in the SOC and how
Watson could take care of that.
You live in BA. Think of the seasonal fisheries there. Abalone now. Envision Paul Watson coming in and telling Juan and the co-op they could no longer
dive abalone even though they are completely legal and working a sustainable fishery.
Think about what would happen to Paul Watson.
Look at what one of our BN members was able to do with abalone replenishment at where, San Martin? Because we took them all in our stupidity and now
have to rebuild stocks.
Sounds like what a lot of the world is going through for oil doesn't it? I hate to see the deaths of the innocents for natural resource greed.
Abrazos,
Cisco |
IB -- yes, besides BA, we call IB home. We have only lived here for about 8 years, but bought property here before when we were living in Central
America. Talk about saving some environment that we love, I have seen the renditions of the old proposed boat harbor.
I am not sure I see your analogy. BA is fortunate to still have abalone after the way it was harvested in the 50s. But they do and I agree it would
not be OK for Watson to show up and stop the co-op, but is that really the same? I shall ponder that.
| Quote: |
What I do not support is an independent effort that is in direct opposition to law. THAT is what kills people and does nothing to solve the problem.
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Sometimes I think it does help solve the problem and does change laws. He is very extreme and sometimes I think that all movements need the extreme
to make the less extreme more successful. Example, while all has changed, many years ago I believe Greepeace helped the Sierra Club in some causes
and in the beginning, Greenpeace was seen as extreme. It is a little of that balance thing- I think.
| Quote: |
Sounds like what a lot of the world is going through for oil doesn't it? I hate to see the deaths of the innocents for natural resource greed.
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AMEN
Still pondering ---
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Did you spend a lot of time in jail because you also broke the law? If so when is it alright to break laws and when should we refrain?
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by sancho
I love this quote, one of the current Sea Shepard ships, the
Steve Irwin, renamed after the Australian crocadile conservation guy who died,
at the renaming of the ship to the Steve Irwin, his widow wife
was quoted 'Give Him Hell Paul', referring to Sea Shepards harassing the illegal, outlaw
Japan whalers, call him a narcissist, eco terrorist,
all the sucess in the World to people like P Watson,
anyone who is not on the Conservation movement is,
I'll be kind, uninformed and
short sighted |
Sancho you have no idea who you are speaking to.
I am a staunch conservationist. Spent a lot of jail time for just that as a matter of fact. I am certainly NOT uninformed nor am I short-sighted
regarding environmental issues.
Your statement regarding disregard of International Treaty, wishing success to someone who others consider a terrorist and blindly making uninformed
statements regarding the Conservation movement are irresponsible and the kinds of thinking that nations go to war over.
Should I consider you an anarchist? Paul Watson and his inflammatory statements and actions is.
How much do you know about this man and his program??? You do realize he was kicked out of the Greenpeace program do you not?
Get your research and emotions in order before you address me as being "uninformed and short sighted" regarding this issue. |
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OH...I am soo busted.
"Did you spend a lot of time in jail because you also broke the law? If so when is it alright to break laws and when should we refrain?"
Yep. And all peaceful protesting. Well, on my side anyway, not very peaceful on theirs.
Great point, Thank You for my reality check.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
OH...I am soo busted.
"Did you spend a lot of time in jail because you also broke the law? If so when is it alright to break laws and when should we refrain?"
Yep. And all peaceful protesting. Well, on my side anyway, not very peaceful on theirs.
Great point, Thank You for my reality check. |
Dang Ralph, you are quick today! This is definitely one of those, "Why didn't I say that moments?" Abreojos must produce clearer thinking.
Cisco, I think we would agree pretty well on most of these issues. Or at least able discuss them 
[Edited on 7-5-2012 by DianaT]
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT.....
--- I am a rather confused believer in situational ethics. I say confused because of so many questions in my mind.
[Edited on 7-5-2012 by DianaT] |
Diana,
One benefit of being confused is that it opens up more possibilities....being "certain" about something reduces one's options.
I think that we, as a species, are a virus on this planet....it is all unfolding as it is. If we were to consider ourselves to be parasites (perhaps
more generous a thought than being a virus), we still aren't even at the stage of being in a symbiotic relationship as a parasite, as both the host
(ie. the planet) and the parasite have mutual benefit in that type of parasitic relationship.
We just suck vitality and viability from our host....and what is most obscene, is that we think we are entitled to that sucking.
|
I hope to never be "certain" --- it will then be time to die.
When it was all more simple and the success of a species simply meant that it lived long enough to reproduce, there was balance, a constantly changing
balance. It was the evolution of that thing we call a human brain that made balance perhaps not obtainable.
Virus--- umm I used to think parasite, but you are correct there is no mutual benefit. In my more spiritual questioning moods, when I think about
the possible existence of a god or gods, he, she or it, I sometimes see the evolution of the "big" brain as a cruel joke and picture a whole lot of
laughing going on. |
I was getting out of this as it was going too far out but I do want to comment on you and Moto's great posts.
I believe (believe???) THINK, it all went to hell when we discovered agriculture.
A couple of weeks ago in one of our 'money' posts I wrote of a contemporary tribe of hunter gatherers that have no problems because none of them have
anything more than any of the others.
Which was pretty much nothing. They did not plant, made no sense to plant and then wait for it to be ready to eat when you could just go eat now and
wander around and eat some more.
There were maybe two million people on earth, getting along fine, eating and being eaten and then came agriculture. With agriculture came permanence,
social stratification, wealth (or the lack of it) and war. Ever see "The God's Must Be Crazy?"
Some thoughts from my notes:
"Yes, funny how we modern people, with all our wealth and "labor- and time-saving" gadgets, think we are masters of creation. But we have less time
and we slave more than ever. Why?
As a civilization advances, it tends to let machines do its dirty work. Cars replace horses, nuclear bombs replace infantries, drones replace fighter
jets; it's all about increasing efficiency.
I think people like to think we're special. But isn't that what got Galileo and Copernicus into trouble — questioning how special we were? But if
we're just another duck in the road, it's not very exciting."
Enjoy what is.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
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Registered: 12-17-2004
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Cisco --- love your notes and statements about agriculture --- and all that went along with agriculture is defined as "progress". The only thing we
seem to be progressing toward is our own extinction.
The God's Must Be Crazy is one of my all time favorite movies. It was one we both showed to our students in prison --- a funny, funny movie with a
very good message.
Gees, I have a project I am working on and need to get serious---but I have really enjoyed this conversation.
Saludos
Diana
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DianaT
Cisco --- love your notes and statements about agriculture --- and all that went along with agriculture is defined as "progress". The only thing we
seem to be progressing toward is our own extinction.
The God's Must Be Crazy is one of my all time favorite movies. It was one we both showed to our students in prison --- a funny, funny movie with a
very good message.
Gees, I have a project I am working on and need to get serious---but I have really enjoyed this conversation.
Saludos
Diana |
It's been nice Diana.
I will be in BA probably August or September for a few months. We should have the opportunity to philosophize.
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: | Originally posted by dtbushpilot
| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
DT,
We are still friends ?
So, do I have to eat a blubber taco when I visit? |
Yes but don't worry, I won't need to kill a whale to get enough blubber |
David,
OUCH...  ....
but I might miss that part of my anatomy....
Don't believe everything you think....
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3294
Registered: 1-11-2007
Location: Buena Vista BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tranquilo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
| Quote: | Originally posted by dtbushpilot
| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
DT,
We are still friends ?
So, do I have to eat a blubber taco when I visit? |
Yes but don't worry, I won't need to kill a whale to get enough blubber |
David,
OUCH... ....
but I might miss that part of my anatomy....
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Don't worry, I was referring to your ample gut, I don't know any other part of your anatomy big enough for a meal
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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David,
Yeah, I got that reference....
and not my....
Don't believe everything you think....
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
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Mood: Gettin' Better
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On a more intelligent level....
http://www.wimp.com/futureours/
2 minutes of your time....
Don't believe everything you think....
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65278
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Great Ged... Yes, it is true... or maybe I should say it can be true... the past 3-4 years has seen such a decline in this nation's hopes and
aspirations I just hope we can get back on course. 
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
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Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Nature has an answer to overpopulation. What it cannot control by starvation it will control by disease. There are so many hundreds of millions of
humans living in too close proximity to poultry and swine that a crossover virus is inevitable. With incredibly effective travel to virtually
everywhere in the world, a pandemic is an absolute certainty. Fun reading. The pandemic of 1917 - 1919. Back when entire blocks of civilization were
naturally isolated. We do not have that luxury today.
Japanese consume very little of the whale percentage wise. Most of it ends up as fertilizer. The Soviets harvested tens of millions of tons of hake
for fertilizer.
Try finding salmon or ling cod or widow fish for sale along the Pacific coast.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
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Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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fish
Hola,until 5 years ago I gave two salmon away 5 days a week..today..NOT !! there is fish this year..but the future is looking bleak !!! and the
fishing all over the world,well...nevermind..too depressing
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6700
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Great Ged... Yes, it is true... or maybe I should say it can be true... the past 3-4 years has seen such a decline in this nation's hopes and
aspirations I just hope we can get back on course.
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Maybe we will with a new House of Representatives.
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