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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
Member Is Offline
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DavidE, I can track with what you have been saying. A lot of people make representations about how good a deal is, then when you get the facts, it
really isn't such a good deal, especially for what you are willing or able to spend.
Spent a lot of time over the years thinking about that and observing a lot. What I have determined is this. In Mexico and especially (in this USA,
believe it or not), there is a great disparity of wealth and income. It is not that visible often times, but it is all around us. When you go to a
super market, or when you stand in line to buy a ticket to go to a movie, go to the beach, go to Home Depot, even when you go to MacDonald's, there
are people all around you, dressed like you, walking like you, dressed like you, talking like you, looking like you, and maybe even driving a car
similar to yours, BUT some of those people have a ton of money...you just can't see it. Those well to do people are all around us, among us, driving
right next to you on the road...and you can't tell.
When it comes to money, those who have a lot of it and those that don't have a completely different reality in their experience in life and in day to
day living. You, and I, and most all of us just don't realize that on a moment to moment basis, but it is real and it is going on right now as we
speak.
So, when someone you are acquainted with, or even on this forum when there is a discussion about costs of hotels, restaurants, vehicle enhancements,
airfares, car rentals, etc., it is often surprising to me to observe what is affordable cost to one person compared to what is affordable to another
person. What is a bargain to one person is OFTEN at great odds as to what is affordable to another. The surprise is because of the amount of money
one person has compared to another...the difference is often VAST and you don't know that until some little nugget of info is disclosed by some one in
a by-the-way, off the cuff comment.
Just for the record, so as not to get political here, I am not and have not (in this thread) made a value judgement as to good or bad, fair or
unfair...such valuations are not the immediate point in this discussion.
While at a nomad get together not too long ago, I was sitting next to a nomad talking about food, fishing, and living in the baja. Nice guy, good
guy, easy to talk to. He had what sounded like a big home with swimming pool (in the Baja!), he had every single piece of fishing equipment I had and
much more, he had a bigger boat than mine, much bigger, he went on and on about expensive wines he liked to drink and the selection that he had at
home, the international traveling he had done, etc., etc.,etc. Across the table from us was another nomad who has since had to leave the baja because
he couldn't afford to live there! In Baja! We were all dressed the same, we all spoke English the same, we all looked alike, we were all active
posters on this forum. All good people, all genuinely friendly. The difference in financial position was vast.
Some guys think spending $275 USD for a one day panga fishing trip is A-OK and quite affordable, I will not do that. I will only use pangueros out of
Agua Amarga who charge from $110-$130 USD a day. Now, I have my own 15 ft fiber glass boat and it costs me $29 USD per fishing trip. I seldom go to
restaurants because I think it is mostly an unnecessary extravagance (I am a good cook and like my food a lot better anyway).
I will not fly out of LAX to go to La Paz because their airfares are way too costly and their parking fees are robbery. I drive my 12 year old Toyota
Echo (40 mpg) to the Greyhound bus terminal at Oceanside, park there for free, pay $16 on the internet for a round trip bus ticket from Oceanside to
the Tijuana airport (don't have to pay for taxis coming and going to the border that way), and take Volaris airlines for anywhere from $96 USD to $186
USD for a round trip from Tijuana to La Paz as I buy my tickets only when Volaris is running specials.
Before I got my casita in baja, I often stayed at the Nuevo Pekin in La Paz for $22 USD per night. Old, but well run and very clean with large rooms
and good location. Sometimes I stayed at Casa Buena B&B for $55/night because it was closer to the casita as I was having it prepared to move
into. I almost refuse to spend up to or more than $100/night anywhere, but sometimes you have no choice. If I can find a place to stay less than
$50/night (I like $30/night) when traveling by myself, I will take it...sleep in my clothes if I have to to save a buck.
I don't have to be cheap, I simply like it...and it makes sense.
[Edited on 7-16-2012 by MitchMan]
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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I think too many people cannot think think of themselves as being intelligent when it comes to scams, speculation, hoarding, cartels, trusts, and
manipulation. They are surely killing off their host. Outsource for profit today, renounce citizenship tomorrow. Buy low, sell high.
It's not the working class versus itself...
It's the working class versus leeches that do absolutely nothing, but scheme to corner individual raw materials, basic foods, and materials, then send
their money actually the money that we have been illegally "taxed" overseas. In the states when I pay five dollars for a dollars worth of spuds
because of speculation it is a tax. Four dollars to a drone who does ZERO.
But that's capitalism, right? Allow the Bank of Quebéc to drive up the cost of a barrel of US crude through speculation. When you pay a hundred bucks
to fuel up your rig, remember you are giving the bank of Quebéc a fist full of dollars for the pleasure. Of course they will come pave your street or
put out a fire when called.
The wheat crop isn't even mature yet. Never mind on it's way to the mill. But l-o-n-g before that happens, when a bumper harvest doesn't quite reach
record level again, your price for a loaf of bread is going to soar to five dollars.
And corn and coffee will follow. Then gasoline, and natural gas and electricity. Rent. Bridge tolls.
And big time speculators will have a hard-as-hell time deciding whether to install gold or platinum fixtures in their new ski mansion in the Alps.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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sancho
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2524
Registered: 10-6-2004
Location: OC So Cal
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by El Jefe
I saw public funds well spent And sorry, DavidE for sidetracking your thread. [Edited on 7-16-2012 by El Jefe] |
I don't want to side track either, but El Jefe, if the above statement is correct, it would best serve as a model
for all Govt. positions. It's just that I have NEVER witnessed/
read what you claim, quite the opposite
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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My days of poverty tripping are hopeful long behind me. I live a privileged life. I do have a budget, but for the most part, I have what I want and
live the life I choose to live.
It's pretty easy to spend $1,000 to $1,500 pesos a week for my basic expenses, this does not include rent and I do not (nor do I want to) own a car.
I eat really, REALLY well. Most of my meals are eaten at home. I buy most of my food from the local organic market, and supplement with 100 to 200
pesos spent at the municipal market for fruit & veges.
Besides paying rent here, I seem to spend about the same amount to live in VeraCruz as I do in Baja. I have access to much more variety of yummies
here than Los Barriles and in general cost of food is higher in Baja.
My rent for the luxury furnished 1 bedroom home here is $5,000 pesos, Internet and cable t.v., stove w/oven, fridge, microwave, blender, toaster,
super comfy bed, talavera tile, firm quality mattress, soft quality pillows. Also, clean sheets and towels weekly included, I mean it is nice! It is
equal in comfort and beauty with fantastic views as my home which I own in L.B.
Sometimes I splurge and go to the movies and a meal at the mall in Xalapa, taking the bus, I blow $200 pesos on the outing and try to stay out of the
mall stores (except window shopping). I avoid Costco, Walmart, etc. way to easy to spend money on stuff I really don't need in these places.
If I get sick, I am basically screwed, my insurance is IMSS, which is not the best option in the world, but this is the life I chose for myself, so I
have to accept what I have. Surly, I cannot expect more for me than I offered my workers all those years I was a boss.
Fortunately, in the 24 years I have paid into the system, I have not had to use it for more than a few stitches once and a couple of checkups.
Basically I have always been able to wish away my ills. I am sure that someday I will have an illness that I can't deal with like a feral cat laying
away in cave licking her wounds, but I will cross that bridge when I get to it.
Travel can really eat up one's funds fast, staying in one place is the secret to not spending much. I just checked my notes, 2 nights in Mx. City, a
visit to a museum for a friend and myself, meals, several taxi's, lux. bus to Xalapa came out to $2,000 pesos and change. Pretty pricey and I kept
it simple.
I sure could find ways to spend a whole lot more to live and most certainly could simplify my life style and spend less.
I cannot imagine going North of border, I am sure the cost is way out of league.
When I was young, I remember we would average $25 DLLs. a week to live camped on the beaches in Sonora, and this was for my husband, kid and me. Spent
about the same w/ renting unfurnished and funky to live in Oaxaca and San Miguel. Those days are long gone by the wayside. They were great, but then
again, so is now.
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Some things just cannot be "non public funded".
"Oh the pass has to stay closed until bids are submitted and the low one is selected to plow snow"
"Sorry! You didn't pay your property tax. You'll have to call another vendor to put out your house fire".
When I elected to work for CalTrans for a 6-month limited term thirty years ago in the Sierras, the division boss recognized my skill with auto
electrical. Ninety percent of his headaches were with equipment with electrical problems. I got an excellent dose of bureaucratic nonsense there and
ten years before that donating my time as a sheriff sergeant. All of the six wheel dump trucks are parked outside at the maintenance stations. Most
would not start in OF weather. The diesels were not cranking fast enough to acheive compression ignition. The problem? CalTrans chose to stick with
the manufacturer's (mostly international harvester) decision to have two six volt batteries in series. Problem was, both batteries (meaning together)
did not develop the CCA cold crank amps of one good 12 volt battery. So I installed a pair of group 31 batteries in parallel. One truck after another
started up even in the coldest weather. They went to patch pot holes, seal cracks or plow snow and lay cinders. I did seventeen vehicles on my own
initiative. I also started to rebuild alternators correctly as the vendor they were using was an ex failed bartender and could not or would not learn
his trade correctly. The district shop foremen went ballistic. "You are not authorized -- you were not authorized to make changes in specifications
for state vehicles!". I was called on the carpet. Had to drive to district headquarters. I went into the boss's office. He closed the door. I thought
I was going to become soon unemployed. He turned to me and said "After I interviewed what was it, thirty people or so for the position, I knew when I
had found a gold mine. They are going to blow steam, Sacramento is going to belch. But you have me, and six maintenance station foremen on your side,
so get the hell out of here and go back to work".
I love unregulated private industry. I trust them, those that have no scruples. I remember what happened to the electricity in California. So do the
Mexicans who watched with an appropriate mixture of humor and horror. Gasoline is NOT subsidized in Mexico, please pound that past a thick skull. When
you own the crude, ship it on your flagged tanker and have it refined by your own refinery it is not SUBSIDIZED. Those that say it is, or should
become speculative wish to sit at a desk invest a million of someone else's money, make two million and keep five hundred thousand for themselves for
being so smart. They'll pay, or walk!
BTW, a (lady) transita just checked my laser copy driver license in downtown Bahia Asuncion. She flapped the heavy stock photo paper back and forth
across her fingers. She wasn't fooled. We exchanged pleasantries and she mentioned seat belt. When I raised my left arm which is a crooked as the
Burma Road from that break last year, she grabbed the belt and said "No! No!" I love this town. I drive at 5mph back and forth. Life is too short to
go any faster.
ELI, amiga. You touched upon a key. Medical. Fully two hundred dollars plus several banknotes featuring dead Mexican artists go monthly toward the
cheapest medicines I can get my hands on. I have to pay a hundred dollars a month for gasoline and hotel to save three hundred dollars over buying the
stuff locally which is said to be possible but never proven. This is for life-support cardiac medication. Nobody seems willing to trade yellowtail and
dorado for organic sweet corn, cantaloupe and potatoes, so my diet shall become increasingly vegetarian.
Brenda and I have been comparing shopping prices. For sixty three items, about 99% of what I ever purchase anywhere in México, this area of Baja
California is 154% as expensive as it is on the mainland. It is expensive to haul stuff, and the spoilage is tremendous.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13049
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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David...excuse me sir...you are mistaken...I'm sure when your corn, cantaloupe and potatoes are ready there will be more yellowtail shared than you
care to eat....I shall bring you some black seabass tomorrow that was gifted to Stan and shared around.
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
Member Is Offline
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Eli, you sound like you really know how to economize. I admire that.
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DavidE
I think too many people cannot think think of themselves as being intelligent when it comes to scams, speculation, hoarding, cartels, trusts, and
manipulation. They are surely killing off their host. Outsource for profit today, renounce citizenship tomorrow. Buy low, sell high.
It's not the working class versus itself...
It's the working class versus leeches that do absolutely nothing, but scheme to corner individual raw materials, basic foods, and materials, then send
their money actually the money that we have been illegally "taxed" overseas. In the states when I pay five dollars for a dollars worth of spuds
because of speculation it is a tax. Four dollars to a drone who does ZERO.
But that's capitalism, right? Allow the Bank of Quebéc to drive up the cost of a barrel of US crude through speculation. When you pay a hundred bucks
to fuel up your rig, remember you are giving the bank of Quebéc a fist full of dollars for the pleasure. Of course they will come pave your street or
put out a fire when called.
The wheat crop isn't even mature yet. Never mind on it's way to the mill. But l-o-n-g before that happens, when a bumper harvest doesn't quite reach
record level again, your price for a loaf of bread is going to soar to five dollars.
And corn and coffee will follow. Then gasoline, and natural gas and electricity. Rent. Bridge tolls.
And big time speculators will have a hard-as-hell time deciding whether to install gold or platinum fixtures in their new ski mansion in the Alps.
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You got it exactly right.
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by wiltonh
Just picked up a guy at the airport in Portland. He had spent 3 weeks in Europe. He was complaining about how little the American dollar was worth
over there.
He was on a tour where breakfast and dinner were supplied. He said the cheapest lunch they could find was $40 US and they went as high as $80 US.
Water is not supplied so it cost $10 US for 1.5 liters of water.
Gas was between $8 and $9 per gallon.
Makes Baja look real cheap. |
My oldest Son is in Europe and has been since 1983.
Wanders from Turkey to Finland.
Never asked him how he does it.
See him a couple of times a year will find out what's up. I do know he has lot's of friends he stays with, these are people that stayed with us in the
Coronado house when the kids were young.
It's a global thing. My five year old Nieto speaks three languages and has been abroad for months at a stretch on four continents.
It's just different now than when it was a grand adventure to drive from San Diego to San Francisco.
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Gawd, Shari, I was teasing! I was trying (and failed) to get a response from Mulegé to work up an excuse to go there next month with my cooler and
make a major score on the mango áte. Stop into the el boléo and get a sack full of bolillos, haunt the segundas, maybe get a 50 peso* deluxe
"authentic" Mexican lunch at la cocina economica, wander the aisles at Saul's dream about pickle relish and Barilla macaroni elbows (Cooked sticky
Mexican pasta makes a great additive for concrete - it makes it impervious to salt area and digestion).
*includes all the authentic agua fresca you can drink.
But it's the áte. Spread thickly on a golden brown toasted bolillo. Washed down with fresh brewed café beans from Lake Atitlán Guatemala, that draws
me. Four or five kilos of jurél, y cochis wouldn't hurt either.
But mil gracias for the offer of the fish. You know how much I crave it. Mi jardín es tu jardín, amiga. Soon we shall have Black seeded simpson
lettuce. The sweetest on earth IMO.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
..... My five year old Nieto speaks three languages and has been abroad for months at a stretch on four continents.
It's just different now than when it was a grand adventure to drive from San Diego to San Francisco. |
You bet,
When I was five I only spoke one language and my folks wouldn't let me go further than one block !!!! 
Letting your five year-old travel the globe like that is very....uhh ... liberal 
Does he ever send you a postcard, or is he more like the older boy who is aimlessly and without apparent means of income bumming around Europe???
 
Don't believe everything you think....
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Eli
Super Nomad
Posts: 1471
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: L.B. Baja Sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: Some times Observing, sometimes Oblivious.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Eli, you sound like you really know how to economize. I admire that. |
Mitch, I think, (heck I know) I am privilged and live in Luxury. I expect that somebody always has more, others have less.
Juana, the lady who cleans my house here, 1 day a week, 4 hours top to bottom, including my laundry for $100 pesos KNOWS how to economize. I tried to
give her a tip to at least pay her bus fare last week and she wouldn't accept it. I am mortified by how little I pay her.
Juana has a son and daughter living at home and are in college. Juana is a superb worker, so she has work 5 days a week. She watches her granddaughter
part time so her daughter can finish college, (she is studying to be a chief). Juana's husband is a beekeeper, so they are a two income family. Also,
Juana's son works part time with his Dad.
As gifts, Juana brings me fresh aloe vera and herbs for teas from her garden. I have given her a couple of my paintings over the years as a gift. She
is delighted to accept them as I am to share what I do well with her.
When the grand baby was born last year, I paid for the crib, but had to stand my ground to get Juana to accept the gift. When I leave here, I will
leave a fat tip. In order to avoid the "yes you will accept this or else" discussion that we have had in the past I think what I will do this time is
give it to her stuffed in a card in an envelope.
When I think of the people I most admire and respect on this planet, Juana is at the top of the list. With very little money she has her needs
covered. She works well and takes great pride in herself and what she does. She lives within her means and does not think of herself as poor. She
smiles easily; all ya have to do is ask her about her granddaughter and a big grin erupts oh her face. She never complains about what she doesn't
have. Yep, for sure Juana is one of my hero's, and I am a lucky soul to know her.
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
..... My five year old Nieto speaks three languages and has been abroad for months at a stretch on four continents.
It's just different now than when it was a grand adventure to drive from San Diego to San Francisco. |
You bet,
When I was five I only spoke one language and my folks wouldn't let me go further than one block !!!!
Letting your five year-old travel the globe like that is very....uhh ... liberal
Does he ever send you a postcard, or is he more like the older boy who is aimlessly and without apparent means of income bumming around Europe???
|
Nieto is with his mom and dad (my younger son) who travel globally in business and pleasure.
My point being that getting on an airplane with a small carry-on and going anywhere in the world and being able to function is common now. Still blows
me away, anything over 55 in my live aboard monster that peees gas all over Hwy 1 to mark it's territory is beyond me.
Older boy sells (sold. out of work and on three-years unemployment now) computer machinery of some sort to governments. Don't know how much he makes
but he lives frugally, has an apartment in Paris that everyone uses while there, a "flat" (whatever that is) in Gallipoli and a house in Brussels.
Christian carries three passports, U.S., French and Belgium and uses whichever one is appropriate to the political situation wherever he is. He still
is a spring-board diver and travels for all the master's meets now too.
It's a neat life for him that started at 13 when we sent him to a friends in Finland for six months then back and forth to other countries in a total
immersion thing. When he finished his masters at USC in 83 and took one look at the U.S. situation he hauled for Europe and has never come back here
to live.
Very interesting to me is that both my kid's are apolitical. They just roll with whatever is happening and change (professions) to make money as the
times change.
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DavidE
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3814
Registered: 12-1-2003
Location: Baja California México
Member Is Offline
Mood: 'At home we demand facts and get them. In Mexico one subsists on rumor and never demands anything.' Charles Flandrau,
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Yep, and you can bet your kind heart is seen and appreciated. Money can't buy everything down here. If you don't haggle with a vendor they'll sneer as
they hand you an item at full asking price.
Giving someone a gift from the heart is vital. Yes money is necessary, but if you want to touch the Mexican soul give them a gift that comes from your
heart. Sharing is one way to do this, and boy is it ever an important part of Mexican culture. It doesn't matter --- you could pour half a soda or
beer and offer it. This means something down here.
A Lot To See And A Lot To Do
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thebajarunner
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3752
Registered: 9-8-2003
Location: Arizona....."Free at last from crumbling Cali
Member Is Offline
Mood: muy amable
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Bad quote, my man
| Quote: | Originally posted by vandenberg
Whenever running a little short on funds, I always remind myself that " money is the root of all evil ". |
I Timothy 6:10, Paul said "the love of money is the root of all evil"
Often misquoted, and thus out of context has lost its meaning...
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motoged
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6481
Registered: 7-31-2006
Location: Kamloops, BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gettin' Better
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
..... My five year old Nieto speaks three languages and has been abroad for months at a stretch on four continents |
Letting your five year-old travel the globe like that is very....uhh ... liberal
Does he ever send you a postcard, or is he more like the older boy who is aimlessly and without apparent means of income bumming around Europe???
|
Nieto is with his mom and dad (my younger son) who travel globally in business and pleasure. |
Cisco,
Thanks for the U2U
My initial comment had me envisioning a five year-old merrily traveling the world....teddy bear in one hand a dragging a duffle in the
other....traipsing through airports, bus stations, hailing taxis, hustling other five year old-girls, and generally doing the world traveler thing by
himself.
As for the older boy....my guess is CIA....yeah, that's the ticket....he's a spy.
Or maybe ..... 
It's good to know that the kids are alright .
Don't believe everything you think....
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Cisco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4196
Registered: 12-30-2010
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
| Quote: | Originally posted by motoged
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cisco
..... My five year old Nieto speaks three languages and has been abroad for months at a stretch on four continents |
Letting your five year-old travel the globe like that is very....uhh ... liberal
Does he ever send you a postcard, or is he more like the older boy who is aimlessly and without apparent means of income bumming around Europe???
|
Nieto is with his mom and dad (my younger son) who travel globally in business and pleasure. |
Cisco,
Thanks for the U2U
My initial comment had me envisioning a five year-old merrily traveling the world....teddy bear in one hand a dragging a duffle in the
other....traipsing through airports, bus stations, hailing taxis, hustling other five year old-girls, and generally doing the world traveler thing by
himself.
As for the older boy....my guess is CIA....yeah, that's the ticket....he's a spy.
Or maybe .....
It's good to know that the kids are alright . |
Nah, the older boy is just enjoying himself.
I looked back in my e-mails. Last one I had from him he was sitting on the roof of a hostel in Turkey telling me of a ferry he was watching crossing
the Bosphorus.
He had been working his area of Italy to Finland when the recession hit and now is on unemployment (three years worth and free health care. That’s
what his 50% tax rate brought him while working) and now is just trippin. If notified, he has to be back in France within ten days so trips to U.S.
are not a problem either.
Christian’s philosophy is to just enjoy life, whatever, wherever, whenever and it has been good to him.
Point of the thread was money and what it takes to live where and how. Christian is frugal, no drugs, alcohol, tobacco and is extremely fit (disgusts
and embarrasses me, both kids) yet enjoys himself immensely. He stays with friends and friends stay at his places. Same thing in Pacific Beach with
the younger one. People from all over the world dropping in to crash whether Michael and family are home or not and they have a place anywhere in
Europe, Australia, Latin America...for no cost that they can go to also. Good for everyone and the Nieto is exposed to many different cultures, ideas
and language.
We need to get back to the barter system and away from the money to a certain extent I think.
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