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DENNIS
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Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by akshadow
It would mean that the US would need to take it serious, not just build a fence, but seriously deter illegal crossing by not apprehending, but using
lethal force for anyone crossing who did not immediately stop if so directed.
How do you think armies stop enemy combatants from crossing their lines? do they ask them to stop when sited? NO |
I like your determination, but in order to do what you suggest, we would literally have to declare war on Mexico. We've given up our claim to
sovereignty for so long now that it's assumed we just don't care.
Besides...another war with Mexico would have different variables since they've already put their loyal forces in place NOB. 
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
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Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by akshadow
It would mean that the US would need to take it serious, not just build a fence, but seriously deter illegal crossing by not apprehending, but using
lethal force for anyone crossing who did not immediately stop if so directed.
How do you think armies stop enemy combatants from crossing their lines? do they ask them to stop when sited? NO |
I like your determination, but in order to do what you suggest, we would literally have to declare war on Mexico. We've given up our claim to
sovereignty for so long now that it's assumed we just don't care.
Besides...another war with Mexico would have different variables since they've already put their loyal forces in place NOB. |
"Lethal force"? Mexico and it's citizens are not our enemy! Just turn
that around. How do you like it, Rambo?
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mulegejim
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Location: San Clemente, CA/Mulege, BCS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by akshadow
this will cause a number of people to be outraged, but a secure border is physically possible. If it is not politically possible there should not be
paths to citizenship etc.
A secure border is just that, a border that is not likely to allow unauthorized individuals, or products to cross. I believe it would be relatively
easy to have such a border. It would mean that the US would need to take it serious, not just build a fence, but seriously deter illegal crossing by
not apprehending, but using lethal force for anyone crossing who did not immediately stop if so directed.
How do you think armies stop enemy combatants from crossing their lines? do they ask them to stop when sited? NO |
Big decision - mow down the men, the women or the children first?
[Edited on 2-23-2013 by mulegejim]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by toneart
"Lethal force"? Mexico and it's citizens are not our enemy!
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Some of them are, Tony. That's a fact. I call anyone who supplies poison to our kids "the enemy."
And....to those already in the states that support a "reconquista" agenda....we are the enemy.....in our own land.
Know your enemy, Tony. It will enhance your longevity.
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Ateo
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Posts: 5901
Registered: 7-18-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by akshadow
this will cause a number of people to be outraged, but a secure border is physically possible. If it is not politically possible there should not be
paths to citizenship etc.
A secure border is just that, a border that is not likely to allow unauthorized individuals, or products to cross. I believe it would be relatively
easy to have such a border. It would mean that the US would need to take it serious, not just build a fence, but seriously deter illegal crossing by
not apprehending, but using lethal force for anyone crossing who did not immediately stop if so directed.
How do you think armies stop enemy combatants from crossing their lines? do they ask them to stop when sited? NO |
Shoot humans for crossing? No way. We don't need to live in that world. We can do better.
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5901
Registered: 7-18-2011
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by akshadow
It would mean that the US would need to take it serious, not just build a fence, but seriously deter illegal crossing by not apprehending, but using
lethal force for anyone crossing who did not immediately stop if so directed.
How do you think armies stop enemy combatants from crossing their lines? do they ask them to stop when sited? NO |
I like your determination, but in order to do what you suggest, we would literally have to declare war on Mexico. We've given up our claim to
sovereignty for so long now that it's assumed we just don't care.
Besides...another war with Mexico would have different variables since they've already put their loyal forces in place NOB. |
Plus, Mexico's Air Force is the worlds greatest fighting force. Would you want to go up against it? 
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Ateo
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Dennis, with all due respect, I don't believe we will ever win this drug war. We so badly love to get high. Blow every cartel member up today and
there will be a stream of 1000 more manana. Money money money!!!!!!!!!!!!
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
Dennis, with all due respect, I don't believe we will ever win this drug war. |
I couldn't agree more.
That said...one way to lose it for sure is to quit fighting it.
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grizzlyfsh95
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No.
The harder I work, the luckier I get
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Ateo
Elite Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
Dennis, with all due respect, I don't believe we will ever win this drug war. |
I couldn't agree more.
That said...one way to lose it for sure is to quit fighting it. |
War was lost along time ago. All were doing now is spending BILLIONS to find a very small percentage of the drugs flowing across the border. Why not
take that money and put it towards drug education and rehabilitation? Oh yeah, because law enforcement needs to keep those drug fighting funds.
Just rambling...........
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ateo
War was lost along time ago. All were doing now is spending BILLIONS to find a very small percentage of the drugs flowing across the border. Why not
take that money and put it towards drug education and rehabilitation? Oh yeah, because law enforcement needs to keep those drug fighting funds.
Just rambling........... |
If we only knew the depth of the complicity by governments on both sides. The Contra Affair comes to mind......
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DENNIS
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Posts: 29510
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| Quote: | Originally posted by grizzlyfsh95
No. |
Really? I don't know whether to agree with you or not...
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
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Location: Occupied Aztlan
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
The best way to end illegal immigration is to require everyone to have a social security card that is instantly verifiable and make it a felony to
hire an undocumented worker. |
You don't get it. Corporate America will never allow your pipe dream.
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
The problem with having a porous border isn't just people fleeing economic issues......it's the cartels and their criminal intent. Has everybody
forgotten this?
Militarization is the only method available to the US [ short of dumping trillions into Mexico] that will stop this and even that wouldn't work since
we couldn't control the distribution of their nuevo wealth.
Stop the cartels from running rampant through the border and another benefit will be putting a stop to the invasion of illegals without even making a
seperate effort. |
Militarization of the border!
Wow Dennis you have been dreaming.
You think companies like "Tyson" will go along with your wet dream?
If I recall Romney and the GOP lost big time to Obama and the democrats in large part because of the over 70 percent of Latino vote that is getting
larger every day.
It would be political suicide for the GOP to have the same dream of Militarization the border, not to mention this isn't something that corporate
America would go along with.
The GOP better spend time figuring out how to attract the Hispanic vote instead of alienating it with talk like Dennis is engaged in.
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SFandH
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From Pew Research:
"As much as 45% of the total unauthorized migrant population entered the country with visas that allowed them to visit or reside in the U.S. for a
limited amount of time. "
Building walls or whatever solution that is implemented along the border will not stop that.
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2006/05/22/modes-of-entry-for-the...
Also, from Pew Research:
"After four decades that brought 12 million current immigrants—most of whom came illegally—the net migration flow from Mexico to the United States has
stopped and may have reversed."
http://www.pewhispanic.org/2012/04/23/net-migration-from-mex...
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akshadow
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| Quote: | | The GOP better spend time figuring out how to attract the Hispanic vote instead of alienating it with talk like Dennis is engaged in.
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Winning the presidency by agreeing to all the democrats and liberals want is not that important.
When some politicians say compromise, they really mean agree with me.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Militarization of the border!
Wow Dennis you have been dreaming.
You think companies like "Tyson" will go along with your wet dream?
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Again, you miss my point, Joe. I'm not concerned with who sneaks into the states to dismember chickens. My concern is the cartels and their crime.
Doncha think an effort should be made to stop that....even at the expense of upsetting Janet Murgia and her La Raza mob?
The only way it's going to get done is through militarization of the border.....unless you know of something better.
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
A huge part of "securing the border" is a mandatory National ID with electronic sensing on it, plus strict enforcement of laws against hiring
illegals.
This can be done if the will is there.
Barry |
Nonsense, ids with chips means false ids with false chips. People are and have always been free to travel or use their labor for their benefit. If you
want to participate in social security then yes get a valid social security number (verified by the employer). But national ids and biometrics are a
rabbit hole made for corruption and go against our inherent inalienable rights as well as our constitution-those who promote national id have an
agenda which has nothing to do with immigration poicy. |
I "promote National ID" and my only "Agenda" is helping to secure the border. I have heard the arguments on both sides ad nauseum, and the anti-ID
folks just don't make the case with me. I say go for it!!! It won't totally cure the problem, but it will sure go a long way in reducing it, I
believe. I see no down-side to it either since almost all "legals" in this Country already have a plethora of ID's used for many purposes.
Barry |
I agree with you Barry, I can see the civil liberty side of it, but to me it, having to possess a
secure form of ID to prove that you are legal to work in the US doesn't seem much more onerous than what we go through to have a passport or driver's
license. The threat of felony prosecution coupled with a streamlined process for legal guest workers would encourage employers to pursue legal
alternatives. Of course that's entirely too logical to ever be seriously considered.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
Militarization of the border!
Wow Dennis you have been dreaming.
You think companies like "Tyson" will go along with your wet dream?
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Again, you miss my point, Joe. I'm not concerned with who sneaks into the states to dismember chickens. My concern is the cartels and their crime.
Doncha think an effort should be made to stop that....even at the expense of upsetting Janet Murgia and her La Raza mob?
The only way it's going to get done is through militarization of the border.....unless you know of something better. |
Oh I see Dennis. It's not the undocumented Mexicans who come here to work that you're really worried about, it's the Mexican drug cartels and the
drugs the ship through the porous US/Mexican border.
Well Americans seem to have an insatiable appetite for those drugs, and the border is a few thousand miles long. It's no wonder why the Mexican drug
cartels are falling all over themselves to serve the demand side of this drug problem.
The war on drugs is a dismal failure on both sides of the border, luckily on the USA side there isn't the amount of violence of the Mexican side. I
just don't think your solution to militarize the border will work to keep Mexicans out in search of jobs, and I really don't think it will keep the
drugs out especially when you have the criminal element with deep pockets on the Mexican said, and American junkies on the US side demanding these
drugs.
I also don't think the Latinos would believe any GOP member who calls for Militarization of the border under the guise of fighting the war on drugs.
Certainly no democrat would call for the militarization of the border.
Perhaps a solution to the drug problem on both sides of the border is "rehab," especially on the USA side.
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
A huge part of "securing the border" is a mandatory National ID with electronic sensing on it, plus strict enforcement of laws against hiring
illegals.
This can be done if the will is there.
Barry |
Nonsense, ids with chips means false ids with false chips. People are and have always been free to travel or use their labor for their benefit. If you
want to participate in social security then yes get a valid social security number (verified by the employer). But national ids and biometrics are a
rabbit hole made for corruption and go against our inherent inalienable rights as well as our constitution-those who promote national id have an
agenda which has nothing to do with immigration poicy. |
I "promote National ID" and my only "Agenda" is helping to secure the border. I have heard the arguments on both sides ad nauseum, and the anti-ID
folks just don't make the case with me. I say go for it!!! It won't totally cure the problem, but it will sure go a long way in reducing it, I
believe. I see no down-side to it either since almost all "legals" in this Country already have a plethora of ID's used for many purposes.
Barry |
I agree with you Barry, I can see the civil liberty side of it, but to me it, having to possess a
secure form of ID to prove that you are legal to work in the US doesn't seem much more onerous than what we go through to have a passport or driver's
license. The threat of felony prosecution coupled with a streamlined process for legal guest workers would encourage employers to pursue legal
alternatives. Of course that's entirely too logical to ever be seriously considered. |
Monoloco your idea of criminalization hiring of working and making it a felony for employers to hire undocumented Mexican aliens would lead to
racist hiring practices.
Problems like E-Verify is not perfect, and leads to a small percentage of “false negatives." In 2006 E-Verify had a 92 percent accuracy rate, and
although it's better now.( I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I think it's something like 97 percent) That's still a lot of mistake the
system is making, especially if you're going to make it a felony to employee a so-called "illegal immigrant."
Many Employers probably would say, they don't need the headache of a possible jail sentence, by hiring dark skin Latino looking people that could
actually be born in Mexico. Perhaps these employers would only hire white people who they are pretty sure are born in the USA.
E-Verify would also cause problems to Latinos that are entitled to work in the USA, but because of computers problems, they are denied a job.
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