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Whale-ista
Super Nomad
Posts: 2009
Registered: 2-18-2013
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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| Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
I Think that the pacific is changing FAST !! This last year (2013) I had to tow my boat 3 HRS north if I wanted to catch salmon !! the water here in
Monterey bay was too warm for the salmon...and Now with NO rain or snow its a Very bad combo with radition heading here....plus the fact of possible
no river water for the salmon to spawn in....to be updated..... |
thanks Capt. You reminded me that 20 years ago I met a commercial salmon fisherman from NorCal, near Arcata, who was in DC to discuss deforestation
with EPA. He worked as a logger during dry summer season, then fished other times of year- a very common combo at the time.
But what he and other fisher/loggermen noticed was they were destroying their own future livelihoods by clearcutting forests and destroying salmon
spawning grounds, then overfishing the northern CA coast. It was a terrible, unsustainable combination, and he had done it all his adult life and
realized it needed to change.
He met with EPA officials and discussed clear cuts that were taking all trees, and left them with fewer and fewer local work options during the summer
as they needed to travel longer distances to un-logged forest lands, adding to travel/housing costs. And fewer salmon near shore meant more days at
sea, higher fuel costs, time away from family etc.
He was a powerful voice from both the personal and the fishing/logging industry perspective. Sadly, he died of cancer several years ago. But during
his time he made a huge impact on protecting forests and fish for the people who want to harvest them in the future.
He never worried if he was 100% right about what was causing the problem. He just acted in the best way he personally could to make a change for the
better for others in the future.
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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Cypress says:
"Monoloco, Ridicule is a cheap and easy plow, but the facts are there. Just go online and research it. Look for the "hockey stick" graph controversy
pertaining to man made climate change."
Here is the "hockey stick" graph updated to 2012 to the best of the knowledge of the best climate scientists on the planet.
This is from the documentary I linked earlier and from a presentation at an international climate conference.
Those links also show see-it-with-your-own-eyes evidence of the loss of glacial ice in very recent time. It appears that Al Gores predictions of the
melt down are FAR more accurate than the predictions of folks like you who claim that nothing is happening.
The evidence for CO2 levels "hockysticking" is taken from the studies of the atmosphere captured in bubbles in 800,000 year old and younger ice.
Clearly CO2 levels have gone up and down over the last eight tenths of a million years, but now those levels are screaming up toward twice what they
have ever been before.
Many climate change deniers are also Young Earth Creationists, do you also hold a belief in that myth Cypress? That would explain a lot.
Here's a test: True or false, St. Nicolas (Santa Claus) was a never married, non-white, religious fanatic who, by the rules of his order, starved
himself SKINNY as part of his cult practices.
If you answer: True. I hold out some hope for you. (wry smile)
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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Sweetwater
Senior Nomad
Posts: 915
Registered: 11-26-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: chilly today hot tomale
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| Quote: | Originally posted by captkw
I Think that the pacific is changing FAST !! This last year (2013) I had to tow my boat 3 HRS north if I wanted to catch salmon !! the water here in
Monterey bay was too warm for the salmon...and Now with NO rain or snow its a Very bad combo with radition heading here....plus the fact of possible
no river water for the salmon to spawn in....to be updated..... |
Just ask the Rocky Mountain ski industry about climate change. I think we now have 8 of the past 10 years with drought conditions which means that the
snowpack they rely on is essentially absent. Both sides of the continent are downhill from here and that impact on the fisheries can not be denied
(except by those who ignore reality).
That radiation plume is another matter that happens to sync up with climate change. Someone might say it has nothing to do with it but, in reality,
the two radioactive isotopes of Cesium did not exist in the environment until humans began their nuclear activities. And Strontium was not abundant
either. The easily tracked radioactive Iodine has a relatively shorter half life but a huge impact on biological organisms and in humans, it's the
growing children who are the first and most visible victims.
Edit: I did want to add one other fact, it is the beloved tuna who are accumulating the highest doses of radiation amongst the fish, due to their
large size and fat content as well as the forage fish that they eat.
I hope that our planet survives the human invasion, it has been changed by us and I fully expect it to reject us at the point when we become a
significant threat.
BTW, Happy New Year
[Edited on 1-1-2014 by Sweetwater]
Everbody\'s preachin\' at me that we all wanna git to heaven, trouble is, nobody wants to die to git there.-BB King
Reality is what does not go away when you stop believing in it. -Philip K Dick
Nothing is worse than active ignorance. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe(1749-1832, German writer, artist and politician)
When choosing between two evils, I always like to try the one I\'ve never tried before. - Mae West
Experience is what keeps a man who makes the same mistake twice from admitting it the third time around.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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The earths climate may be changing, but is it caused by man?
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
The earths climate may be changing, but is it caused by man?
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The fact that it has been proven that the increase in CO2 corresponds exactly with industrialization,
coupled with fossil climate records, and atmospheric CO2 measurements from ancient ice cores, make a pretty good case that the burning of fossil fuels
has contributed to climate change. I am not aware of any evidence of a time when high levels of CO2 were present during an ice age. That doesn't
necessarily mean that we should significantly disrupt our economy by adopting technology that at best will have a minimal effect on this process.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
The earths climate may be changing, but is it caused by man?
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The fact that it has been proven that the increase in CO2 corresponds exactly with industrialization,
coupled with fossil climate records, and atmospheric CO2 measurements from ancient ice cores, make a pretty good case that the burning of fossil fuels
has contributed to climate change. I am not aware of any evidence of a time when high levels of CO2 were present during an ice age. That doesn't
necessarily mean that we should significantly disrupt our economy by adopting technology that at best will have a minimal effect on this process.
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Well put. X2
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18377
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
The earths climate may be changing, but is it caused by man?
|
The fact that it has been proven that the increase in CO2 corresponds exactly with industrialization,
coupled with fossil climate records, and atmospheric CO2 measurements from ancient ice cores, make a pretty good case that the burning of fossil fuels
has contributed to climate change. I am not aware of any evidence of a time when high levels of CO2 were present during an ice age. That doesn't
necessarily mean that we should significantly disrupt our economy by adopting technology that at best will have a minimal effect on this process.
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In past 100 years all polluters have said pollution controls would be expensive and bad for the economy. They were all wrong.
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
The earths climate may be changing, but is it caused by man?
|
The fact that it has been proven that the increase in CO2 corresponds exactly with industrialization,
coupled with fossil climate records, and atmospheric CO2 measurements from ancient ice cores, make a pretty good case that the burning of fossil fuels
has contributed to climate change. I am not aware of any evidence of a time when high levels of CO2 were present during an ice age. That doesn't
necessarily mean that we should significantly disrupt our economy by adopting technology that at best will have a minimal effect on this process.
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In past 100 years all polluters have said pollution controls would be expensive and bad for the economy. They were all wrong. |
Hyperbole lives on both sides of the debate.
Al said the ice cap would be all melted by now and the coasts would be underwater this year.
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
The earths climate may be changing, but is it caused by man?
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That doesn't necessarily mean that we should significantly disrupt our economy by adopting technology that at best will have a minimal effect on this
process. |
Bingo....
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Pompano
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8194
Registered: 11-14-2004
Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
Member Is Offline
Mood: Optimistic
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Hmmmm..... one must pause and think...assess all the information...compare to history...
...grab a rod and chuck a lure into the backyard!
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Around the globe sophisticated and well financed beach resort developers are building mega bizzillion resorts on GANA DE MAR, brand new beaches.
I don't think they would be swayed to stop and rethink the whole thing by a picture of transitional lagoons in a bay within a bay.
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Whale-ista
Super Nomad
Posts: 2009
Registered: 2-18-2013
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sunny with chance of whales
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
Hmmmm..... one must pause and think...assess all the information...compare to history...
...grab a rod and chuck a lure into the backyard!
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Wow, high tide! Where is this?
\"Probably the airplanes will bring week-enders from Los Angeles before long, and the beautiful poor bedraggled old town will bloom with a
Floridian ugliness.\" (John Steinbeck, 1940, discussing the future of La Paz, BCS, Mexico)
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Pompano
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8194
Registered: 11-14-2004
Location: Bay of Conception and Up North
Member Is Offline
Mood: Optimistic
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Whale-ista,
That photo shows Playa Burros, just over the hill from my place at Coyote Bay...all within the Bay of Conception.
It's a normal thing for that spot, however..as that whole area is well within a flood zone due to high tides. The pic shows it at one of the highest
tides. I posted it in jest per all the global warming/cooling theories. This is reality. My seawall at Coyote next door was in place for 50 years
without showing any abnormal rise or drop in water levels. But I doubt it's over yet...as all the horses have not finished the race.
It is also a place where innumerable vehicles have gotten stuck to the axles while trying to cross the low area to the rear. I've helped to pull out
several over the years. 
edit for spelling errors and to add this photo from Burros Beach. During the hotter months it's a favorite place to cool off and play cribbage.
[Edited on 1-4-2014 by Pompano]
I do what the voices in my tackle box tell me.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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I've seen quite a few weather related "flood tides". If you ever get down to The Point in Biloxi check out the height of those blue rings painted on
the telephone poles.
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vgabndo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3461
Registered: 12-8-2003
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Checking-off my bucket list.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
The earths climate may be changing, but is it caused by man?
|
The fact that it has been proven that the increase in CO2 corresponds exactly with industrialization,
coupled with fossil climate records, and atmospheric CO2 measurements from ancient ice cores, make a pretty good case that the burning of fossil fuels
has contributed to climate change. I am not aware of any evidence of a time when high levels of CO2 were present during an ice age. That doesn't
necessarily mean that we should significantly disrupt our economy by adopting technology that at best will have a minimal effect on this process.
|
In past 100 years all polluters have said pollution controls would be expensive and bad for the economy. They were all wrong. |
Hyperbole lives on both sides of the debate.
Al said the ice cap would be all melted by now and the coasts would be underwater this year. |
Watch the documentary, and tell me that Al gore was more wrong than right!!!!
http://movies.netflix.com/WiPlayer?movieid=70229919&trki... p;fdvd=true
His prediction of the rapid diminution of the ice pack was SPOT ON, he missed the time frame. So take another shot at the messenger. Someone had to be
the bearer of bad news, and given the faults and errors found in his work, he still gets a B+ for the stuff that's been proven right.
I personally know only one world class visionary, Bill Kauth, and he has said to me: "The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
He's working on building small sustainable communities of like minded people who are committed to very high standards of responsibility and
accountability. There is no evidence that humankind has the will to be responsible, and so much of the third world is just now tasting the gluttony
that we fatties have known for generations. They will not go back. (voluntarily) The human condition is not on an upswing.
The denial of science as a point of political conformity was illustrated in this new PEW poll. I get no hope from those numbers between the science
deniers and the rest of us.
My new favorite bumper sticker is: I'm feeling so much better
since I gave up all hope.
[Edited on 1-4-2014 by vgabndo]
Undoubtedly, there are people who cannot afford to give the anchor of sanity even the slightest tug. Sam Harris
"The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
Bill Kauth
Carl Sagan said, "We are a way for the cosmos to know itself."
PEACE, LOVE AND FISH TACOS
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neilm81301
Nomad
Posts: 134
Registered: 3-21-2012
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News Science Peer review and scientific publishing Nobel winner declares boycott of top science journals
Randy Schekman says his lab will no longer send papers to Nature, Cell and Science as they distort scientific process
====================
"of course, the easiest solution to all this is to accuse scientists of fibbing!"
====================
"Leading academic journals are distorting the scientific process and represent a "tyranny" that must be broken, according to a Nobel prize winner who
has declared a boycott on the publications.
Randy Schekman, a US biologist who won the Nobel prize in physiology or medicine this year and receives his prize in Stockholm on Tuesday, said his
lab would no longer send research papers to the top-tier journals, Nature, Cell and Science.
Schekman said pressure to publish in "luxury" journals encouraged researchers to cut corners and pursue trendy fields of science instead of doing more
important work. The problem was exacerbated, he said, by editors who were not active scientists but professionals who favoured studies that were
likely to make a splash."
http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/09/nobel-winner-...
Neil
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vgabndo
| Quote: | Originally posted by DaliDali
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
The earths climate may be changing, but is it caused by man?
|
The fact that it has been proven that the increase in CO2 corresponds exactly with industrialization,
coupled with fossil climate records, and atmospheric CO2 measurements from ancient ice cores, make a pretty good case that the burning of fossil fuels
has contributed to climate change. I am not aware of any evidence of a time when high levels of CO2 were present during an ice age. That doesn't
necessarily mean that we should significantly disrupt our economy by adopting technology that at best will have a minimal effect on this process.
|
In past 100 years all polluters have said pollution controls would be expensive and bad for the economy. They were all wrong. |
Hyperbole lives on both sides of the debate.
Al said the ice cap would be all melted by now and the coasts would be underwater this year. |
Watch the documentary, and tell me that Al gore was more wrong than right!!!!
http://movies.netflix.com/WiPlayer?movieid=70229919&trki... p;fdvd=true
His prediction of the rapid diminution of the ice pack was SPOT ON, he missed the time frame. So take another shot at the messenger. Someone had to be
the bearer of bad news, and given the faults and errors found in his work, he still gets a B+ for the stuff that's been proven right.
I personally know only one world class visionary, Bill Kauth, and he has said to me: "The situation is far too dire for pessimism."
He's working on building small sustainable communities of like minded people who are committed to very high standards of responsibility and
accountability. There is no evidence that humankind has the will to be responsible, and so much of the third world is just now tasting the gluttony
that we fatties have known for generations. They will not go back. (voluntarily) The human condition is not on an upswing.
The denial of science as a point of political conformity was illustrated in this new PEW poll. I get no hope from those numbers between the science
deniers and the rest of us.
My new favorite bumper sticker is: I'm feeling so much better
since I gave up all hope.
[Edited on 1-4-2014 by vgabndo] |
For a moment.....let's assume the polar ice cap is melting and soon there will be a rise in sea levels that will inundate all mankind who dwell on the
coasts.....worldwide.
If Al's timeline was off.....when will it all happen?
No need to be exact like Al was....just a wild guess will do.
Surely all the scientists in the world who say it's happening have a clue?
And then what do you propose the world does about this phenom?
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
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Google up Dubai on G. Earth and take a long look at the palm islands and The World Project. Then ask yourself if the Arabs have enough money to get
the best engineering data/reports/projections. Then find the sheiks who are financing those mega projects and tell them STOP ALL THIS YOU FOOLS!
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DaliDali
Super Nomad
Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Google up Dubai on G. Earth and take a long look at the palm islands and The World Project. Then ask yourself if the Arabs have enough money to get
the best engineering data/reports/projections. Then find the sheiks who are financing those mega projects and tell them STOP ALL THIS YOU FOOLS!
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Everyday I stroll down to the launch ramp in my part of the world, measure the water height with my EXACTOMETER measuring devise and note the changes
from year to year....month to month.
Sure enough, the water levels change.....full and new moon higher.....not so much quarter/half moon.
What will I do about it?.....take another stroll to the ramp, and again, with my EXACTOMETER measuring device.....do it all again in the hopes that Al
was right after all.
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
Member Is Offline
Mood: thriving in Baja
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Will stranded ship affect Baja tourism?
This whole tread belongs in the OT section. As much Baja related as the ship stuck in the ice at Antarctica
Bob Durrell
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