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Martyman
Super Nomad
Posts: 1904
Registered: 9-10-2004
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My neighbors run their Genny all the time. Drives me batty. Get a quiet one if you get one and don't run it all the time.
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pacside
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 1-16-2006
Location: N. Cal
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Thanks Russ. Problem is most guests do not 'conserve usage'...therein lies the problem. I do know those honda 3000 gens are popular.
Not technical so I don't understand the amps sentence.
pacside
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pacside
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 1-16-2006
Location: N. Cal
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Quote: Originally posted by Martyman  | | My neighbors run their Genny all the time. Drives me batty. Get a quiet one if you get one and don't run it all the time. |
Agree, that would drive me nuts and doesn't make for nice neighbors. Fortunately, not many neighbors and the ocean waves would drown out the sound
from the casa. Will get a quiet one or at least as quiet as is possible.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacside | Really appreciate everyone's replies. You all get it; noise, short term vacationers 'needs', cost, etc.
95% of the time my current setup is sufficient but the 5% of the time when it isn't is unsustainable. So I need to fix it. I've been told various
things like don't increase solar for the 5% but just get a generator. But this solution doesn't seem to be so easy and clearcut. I wanted to stay away
from increasing solar capacity as I was put off when 4 of my 8 solar panels flew off my roof during hurricane Odile and when they don't work during
cloudy days and it still isn't sufficient for when vacationers who don't conserve energy.
Also didn't think I could increase panel capacity given my battery bank. Maybe folks can weigh in here.
Current setup is 8 panels at 135w/ea which is only 1080watts of panels. Battery pack consists of 16 Trojan 390Ah batteries with Outback 3000 inverter,
48v. Wondering if I add new panels if I have to add batteries.
Also, if anyone knows someone in the area I can hire to help me on this that would be much appreciated.
pacside
[Edited on 3-13-2015 by pacside]
[Edited on 3-13-2015 by pacside] |
Is sounds to me like your solar capacity is much too small for your battery
capacity. I have half the battery capacity as you have but have about 1800 watts of solar, which will get our system to float on all but the most
overcast days.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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Russ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6742
Registered: 7-4-2004
Location: Punta Chivato
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The amp thing is where you customize you input to the inverter from the generator. I lower my input so the generator can run on the eco mode saving a
lot of gas. Of course the inverter has to have charging capability. I don't know about the OutBack. It should have an external input feature though.
Doing it this way the inverter handles the sudden (over the 15 amps) load demands.
| Quote: Originally posted by pacside | Thanks Russ. Problem is most guests do not 'conserve usage'...therein lies the problem. I do know those honda 3000 gens are popular.
Not technical so I don't understand the amps sentence.
pacside |
[Edited on 3-13-2015 by Russ]
Bahia Concepcion where life starts...given a chance!
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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the outback 48v charger is bigger than you'll ever need...
the mate can reduce the amount of current the charger uses...you really don't need it all
a split ac unit is way better than the wall units but is more $$$
the splits are quieter too
the wall units are NOISY!!! I have wall units
the largest 115v ac unit is one ton =12000 btu
I need 2 ac units in each 800 sq foot casita to cool it in the summer
each unit uses 11amps
I think a 3000w generator is too small
you will overload it and repairing it all the time
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larryC
Super Nomad
Posts: 1493
Registered: 8-11-2008
Location: BoLA
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacside | Really appreciate everyone's replies. You all get it; noise, short term vacationers 'needs', cost, etc.
95% of the time my current setup is sufficient but the 5% of the time when it isn't is unsustainable. So I need to fix it. I've been told various
things like don't increase solar for the 5% but just get a generator. But this solution doesn't seem to be so easy and clearcut. I wanted to stay away
from increasing solar capacity as I was put off when 4 of my 8 solar panels flew off my roof during hurricane Odile and when they don't work during
cloudy days and it still isn't sufficient for when vacationers who don't conserve energy.
Also didn't think I could increase panel capacity given my battery bank. Maybe folks can weigh in here.
Current setup is 8 panels at 135w/ea which is only 1080watts of panels. Battery pack consists of 16 Trojan 390Ah batteries with Outback 3000 inverter,
48v. Wondering if I add new panels if I have to add batteries.
Also, if anyone knows someone in the area I can hire to help me on this that would be much appreciated.
pacside
Pacside
As Mono said in an earlier post you are actually under paneled for the size of your battery bank. Trojan recommends that you charge their batteries at
between 10 and 13% of their rated capacity. Your capacity is 780 amp hours and with the type of tall batteries you have you should probably strive to
charge it as close to the 13% as possible so you should have panels capable of putting out 101 amps at 48v. to get that many amps you would need at
least 2 of the FM60 charge controllers. I am guessing that with your current setup that your panels are putting out somewhere near 17 amps. Not near
enough to fully charge your bank. One thing you could do is to put a marine battery switch between the 2 banks and charge one bank at a time, but you
would still need more panels. I would also switch to AGM batteries which will never need water and which will be happy being charged with 5% of their
capacity which would cut your panels expenses in half.
Good luck with your system, Outback is good stuff.
Larry |
Off grid, 12-190 watt evergreen solar panels on solar trackers, 2-3648 stacked Outback inverters, 610ah LiFePo4 48v battery bank, FM 60 and MX60
Outback charge controllers, X-240 Outback transformer for 240v from inverters, 6500 watt Kubota diesel generator.
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pacside
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 1-16-2006
Location: N. Cal
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I agree with you (and others) to add 800-1000kw of panels to my 16 batteries bank given I only have only about 1050kw of panels.
Regarding the generator you refer to above, does it need a cover or can it sit on it's own? Just trying to figure out what is needed to set this up
properly. I'm still wondering if I need such a generator given it will only be needed for cloudy days or when guests drain the batteries and hot
months of summer when an air conditioner is desirable.
Still looking for someone down there who could advise me and help handle installing solar panels and generator. Do you know of anyone?
Thanks,
pacside
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacside |
I agree with you (and others) to add 800-1000kw of panels to my 16 batteries bank given I only have only about 1050kw of panels.
Regarding the generator you refer to above, does it need a cover or can it sit on it's own? Just trying to figure out what is needed to set this up
properly. I'm still wondering if I need such a generator given it will only be needed for cloudy days or when guests drain the batteries and hot
months of summer when an air conditioner is desirable.
Still looking for someone down there who could advise me and help handle installing solar panels and generator. Do you know of anyone?
Thanks,
pacside |
It is in a weatherproof enclosure, but, if you live anywhere near the beach, you will have less
problems and a longer service life with it in a building. Salt is the enemy of electronics.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2725
Registered: 5-10-2011
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Yes.
| Quote: Originally posted by Russ |
With your setup you should still get enough solar in to charge on a mostly cloudy day if you conserve your usage. |
Yes.
When somebody says that his solar "doesn't charge" on cloudy day, or that he is "losing power" - whatever it means - to me this simply doesn't make
sense. Solar harvest on a cloudy day can be 3-4 times less than on a perfectly sunny day, but if system is properly balanced, solar should be able to
handle all your loads other than AC. If solar can't bring the batts to Absorb stage on some day (80% charge, to put it simply), what's the big deal?
This is Baja, tomorrow there will be sun and solar will bring it up to 100%.
Battery bank should be of the "right" size to let you hang on for a few cloudy days. Some people are getting 4 pairs of L16 when they only live there
in winter, no AC, no jacuzzi, and all they want is to watch sat TV and burn a few lights. This is 4 times more battery than they need. Self-discharge
current is 4 times higher than it would've been if they bought only 1 pair of L16. Then they get a monstrous inverter-charger with high stand-by
current guzzling the charge like there is no tomorrow, and their batts are in a bad shape after jsut a year. And then the guy is scratching his head,
wandering - what the heck, I've got 900W solar, tons of batts, and yet have to run a generator every night  )
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Alm
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2725
Registered: 5-10-2011
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Do you realize how loud diesel generator is? No offense, but unless your hearing is already badly damaged, you will appreciate a good cover. Your
neighbors will probably appreciate it too. Cement blocks and labor will cost few hundred bucks total, this is a no-brainer.
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Paulclark
Nomad
Posts: 357
Registered: 10-13-2008
Location: Castillo de Arena
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Diesel---I have 3.5 kw of solar and AC from it during the daytime in my office which is 350 sq. ft.--nice and cool and no strain on the batteries.
Night and high usage times I use a diesel generator --- 12 KW, Mitsubishi generator which just passed 50,000 hours and was sadly sent down the road
last week after 19 years.
It is being replaced with a 10 Kw Kubota from www.generatorsales.com which is costing $5,600.00 plus freight etc., for an additional $1,600 it can be purchased in a sound box, however we have
a generator room which is 1/2 in the ground and 2 mufflers to minimize the sound so neighbours 100 meters away can barely hear it. Further sound
suppression can be obtained by putting a muffler (suppressor on the intake). Additionally we set the generator on rubber mounts.
Cheers---diesel plus solar
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8813
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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Mood: Full Time Residents
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dont put a muffler on the intake...a diesel needs AIR...lots of AIR
that's why they put "turbos" on them now days
the sound box I have doesn't really work that well...a sound room would be better...
I put my generator on 4x4's...that did work too...but I only did it to be able to move later
whatever you do DONT put a fuel tank under the engine...makes it really hard to change the oil...
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bob and Susan | dont put a muffler on the intake...a diesel needs AIR...lots of AIR
that's why they put "turbos" on them now days
the sound box I have doesn't really work that well...a sound room would be better...
I put my generator on 4x4's...that did work too...but I only did it to be able to move later
whatever you do DONT put a fuel tank under the engine...makes it really hard to change the oil... |
I use a
pump to change my oil. Easy and clean.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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pacside
Nomad
Posts: 316
Registered: 1-16-2006
Location: N. Cal
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Thanks for everyones replies. Can someone please explain to me why one of these Honda portable generators (7000is or 3000is) or the standby Kohler
20kw generator wouldn't suffice to power my air conditioner during summer months.
Current setup:
1035 kw solar panels
16 Trojan L16E 6v Batteries
Outback 3000 Inverter
No generator
I will increase panels as batteries can handle more but it still won't be enough for air conditioner and other peak usage times (i.e. guests).
I understand the benefit of the continous running diesel generators but I'm getting concerned about the noise, ease of use, maintenance as I'm a
remote owner.
Thanks,
pacside
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willardguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6451
Registered: 9-19-2009
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are looking to AC the whole house, or just one room at night? if its the latter, the honda eu2000 will nicely power a window unit, in eco mode!~
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacside |
Thanks for everyones replies. Can someone please explain to me why one of these Honda portable generators (7000is or 3000is) or the standby Kohler
20kw generator wouldn't suffice to power my air conditioner during summer months.
Current setup:
1035 kw solar panels
16 Trojan L16E 6v Batteries
Outback 3000 Inverter
No generator
I will increase panels as batteries can handle more but it still won't be enough for air conditioner and other peak usage times (i.e. guests).
I understand the benefit of the continous running diesel generators but I'm getting concerned about the noise, ease of use, maintenance as I'm a
remote owner.
Thanks,
pacside
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Those generators will power your home, you will just spend more in fuel and maintenance, and they will have
a much shorter lifespan. A good diesel generator with proper service will run for 50,000 hours, you will be lucky to get a couple of thousand out of a
portable gas generator. Check the db ratings of generators, there are enclosed diesel models below 65db, and if you put them in a properly designed
shed, which you will also need for a gas or propane generator, you will barely hear it running.
[Edited on 3-20-2015 by monoloco]
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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BigWooo
Senior Nomad
Posts: 579
Registered: 1-2-2007
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I think 20kw would be overkill. I have a 14kw Genarac propane generator, which is similar to the Kohler. I went with the 14 in order to run larger
tools with power leftover to run the house and charge batteries. On a cloudy day I can charge the batteries while I'm welding with a fridge and
freezer going at the same time with plenty of power to spare.
The BIG downside to the Kohler and Generac is fuel use and noise. I have a pretty large solar power system so I rarely run the generator and my fuel
costs are about 500 pesos a month. . That's not that much, but for as little as I use it, that seems excessive.
The Kohler and Generac are both pretty loud. I have mine in an insulated housing, inside sound walls, sitting on gravel to absorb more sound, and I
can still hear it 100 yards away. I never run it in the morning or evening so I don't bug my neighbors.
My generator runs good and is very dependable, but due to fuel consumption and noise, I'd never buy it again. I think you would be better off staying
away from propane generators.
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ncampion
Super Nomad
Posts: 1238
Registered: 4-15-2006
Location: Loreto
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Mood: Retired and Loving it
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One of the big advantages of propane generators is that the fuel is stable. For generators that don't run often propane is not a bad choice over gas
or diesel. Both gas and diesel fuel will go bad over time where as propane can sit there indefinitely without going bad. If you're going to use the
generator often, the fuel problem is not usually an issue and then diesel would be the best choice.
Living Large in Loreto. Off-grid and happy.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by pacside |
Current setup:
1035 kw solar panels
16 Trojan L16E 6v Batteries
Outback 3000 Inverter
No generator
I will increase panels as batteries can handle more
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It's not so much that they will handle more, it's that they REQUIRE a higher charging rate than you can
give them with that array. Otherwise you will greatly reduce their lifespan.
"The future ain't what it used to be"
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