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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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People may wonder why this is an issue for me.
I am an off-roader..Truck, Jeep, and ATV. I (and my son) are off-road racers. Things like this ruin it for everyone. Regardless of the excuses. So
next time you b-tch about a racer or pre runner, Think about these guys....not the majority of off-roaders and racers who care about what they are
doing.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Quote: Originally posted by rts551  | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by 4x4abc | I apologize guys - forgot my own doctrine to post sunsets and sunrises only.
And David, you might remove the part of your report where you bypassed a locked gate on PLR before rts551 finds it. |
Don't apologize because someone isn't having a good time here, and if we didn't explore Old California by going around locked gates, (and not steeling
or damaging property), then we are a poorer people for what is not seen. The land is the land and it is forever... People can only claim it for a
short time because we are temporary on this planet. |
Looks like your posts are temporary as well. Why throw them out there and then delete them. People will still know you took this thread off-topic.
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Any posts that you boys duplicate I removed because there is no need to see it twice on one page to keep the thread moving. Nothing off topic I see
either. I will delete this one too if you quote it for the same reason.
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woody with a view
PITA Nomad
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Location: Looking at the Coronado Islands
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he could turn around. you don't have a clue why the road is closed.
i'll leave it there....... not much more to say anyway.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Practical ... yes, Legal ... No
Enjoy it while you can 
The days of just going any place .... keeps getting smaller and smaller
[Edited on 4-9-2015 by wessongroup]
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Bajaboy
Ultra Nomad
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Location: Bahia Asuncion, BCS, Mexico
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | DianaT, 73 year old roads closed CAUSES damage by people making bypass routes over virgen land as we so clearly illustrate here. The rancher is 100%
responsible for the 1/2 mile detour road. If one came from 40 miles over that road to find the end blocked, he has no choice but to find a way around.
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I wonder what Mike from Baja Dark Skies might say about this issue?
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BajaNomad
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Thread Moved
4-9-2015 at 02:21 PM |
David K
Honored Nomad
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Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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There is no ranch, observatory, retreat, B&B, development, or people... within sight of the 1942 road... none. So, Zac, apples and oranges.
I respect what Mike tried to achieve at Rancho Concepcion (Dark Skies Inn)... I had hoped to visit there before it closed. However, it isn't rocket
science to figure what could happen if you suddenly close roads that people need or use to get around. Buying a ranch in the middle of a road route,
rather than at the end of a road and then saying the game has changed obviously met with resistance from the Mexican off road groups and others,
according to Mike's posts.
There is a saying, "If you can't beat them, join them". Mike could have more business by welcoming four wheelers and bike riders, like Mike's Sky
Rancho and Rancho El Coyote, if he wanted it. He told me he doesn't, and that is his business, not ours!
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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How quickly we conveniently forget. Mike tried to accommodate people through his property in the beginning. Their inconsideration, damage to his
fence and property, and cutting locks on the gates caused him to reconsider and close it permanently.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
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This has moved ?? ... 
Legal .. Yes ... Practical no ...
[Edited on 4-9-2015 by wessongroup]
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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It was in the Hiking Forum, and this clearly is an Off Roading issue. Thanks to Doug for working on Nomad while on vacation!
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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| Quote: Originally posted by rts551 | | How quickly we conveniently forget. Mike tried to accommodate people through his property in the beginning. Their inconsideration, damage to his
fence and property, and cutting locks on the gates caused him to reconsider and close it permanently. |
Didn't forget a thing... the road was not open, except by invitation, and that didn't work too well, did it? Nothing wrong with Mike wanting privacy,
but again an existing road closed by the new guy didn't work in the end. I just wish Mike could have worked it out so it was a win-win.
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | | Quote: Originally posted by rts551 | | How quickly we conveniently forget. Mike tried to accommodate people through his property in the beginning. Their inconsideration, damage to his
fence and property, and cutting locks on the gates caused him to reconsider and close it permanently. |
Didn't forget a thing... the road was not open, except by invitation, and that didn't work too well, did it? Nothing wrong with Mike wanting privacy,
but again an existing road closed by the new guy didn't work in the end. I just wish Mike could have worked it out so it was a win-win.
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Like I said. How quickly we forget. from
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=58082&pag...
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If you examine the maps I have posted, you can see that as recent as 2003, the road from Astro's place to the Observatory road is not shown... i.e. it
is a 'new' road.
Before Astro (Mike) bought the land, the road was pushed through from Rancho Concepcion (now Baja Dark Skies Inn) to the Observatory road and the
previous owner gave SCORE permission to use it for a Baja race.
It seems that if the above is true then it can hardly be considered 'grandfathered' as a right-of-way to the public. Remember it was the bad behavior
by a 4WD club and marijuana farmers that caused AstroBaja to put up the gates in the first place. If people would be respectful then this road may
have been left open. He certainly goes beyond the ordinary by opening the gate if he is asked to by the other 4wd and m/c clubs.
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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just food for thought - if you buy property and an established road runs through it. Go ahead and lock it. Fine with me. Nobody can get it. Fine with
me.
If I would find a locked gate as an entrance to a property, I would respect that every day.
In our case we traveled along an established road, found some abandoned ranchos, opened several gates and then found ourselves locked inside a
property which had not been locked at our side of entry.
Had the same thing happen to me on the same property 20 years ago. Drove back 5 miles to a working ranch and asked for the key.
"Where did you come from?"
"From Arroyo Grande."
"Nobody comes from there"
"Well, I did."
They were kind and opened the gate.
Same rancho 20 years later. We find ourselves locked inside. No bid deal, I drive back to the rancho.
No more rancho.
2 luxurious houses with horse stables etc.
Nobody around to ask for a key.
Drove around for 30 minutes to find a caretaker.
Nobody around for miles.
So, we looked for a low damage way around the gate.
Nada
Going back was not an option.
Not because we are lazy - no, we had only gas for maybe 40 miles.
The way back would have been 100+ miles.
The way I see it, the owners carelessly trapped us. We exited causing as little damage as possible.
By the way, the sign advertising government funds at work to restore nature. We counted about 20 newly bulldozed roads inside the old rancho. They are
definitely not there to protect nature. They are protecting their privacy and investment. Nothing wrong with that.
But please make an effort to lock all gates.
The people I train would have chosen the same route. Possibly with C4.
[Edited on 4-10-2015 by 4x4abc]
Harald Pietschmann
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motoged
Elite Nomad
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C4 ???!!!!
Blowed up real good....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUtdXzBSVaU
Don't believe everything you think....
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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and before someone asks - no, I did not take pictures of the $$$$$ country retreats. It's none of my business.
Harald Pietschmann
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Archie
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Those bulldozed roads you saw, they are called "brechas cortafuego"and their function is to stop spreading wildfires and serve as roads for the forest
firefighter crews, thats also funded by the government and gives employment to locals.
The gates are there to control access and help stop poachers, because thats a zone of mating and transit for bighorn sheep, mule deer and cougars.
Also there have been reports thats a zone for drug traffic and there were some growers in the canyons.
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
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I know how brechas cortafuegos look like - these were no fire breaks
Harald Pietschmann
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Rancho Arroyo Grande, 1955
From Howard Gulick, 11-25-55
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Emerson
Junior Nomad
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The quality makes it look like it was taken yesterday.
Great pics.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
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theft and vandalism and increased offroading have brought undesirable elements of civilization to many rural areas of baja. unfortunately, that means
local people are now fencing off many old roads. these roads are not really "public" thoroughfares, just old roads to ranches,... perhaps the only
people with rights to these roads are local ranches that have informal or formal easement rights
unfortunately, if offroaders cut locks, disrespect gates/fences/signs, the remaining public access will disappear.
a theme repeated all over: a few offroaders often spoil everything for everyone else
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4x4abc
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4289
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Location: La Paz, BCS
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Mood: happy - always
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| Quote: Originally posted by mtgoat666 | theft and vandalism and increased offroading have brought undesirable elements of civilization to many rural areas of baja. unfortunately, that means
local people are now fencing off many old roads. these roads are not really "public" thoroughfares, just old roads to ranches,... perhaps the only
people with rights to these roads are local ranches that have informal or formal easement rights
unfortunately, if offroaders cut locks, disrespect gates/fences/signs, the remaining public access will disappear.
a theme repeated all over: a few offroaders often spoil everything for everyone else |
why do you say "a few offroaders"? It's not just a few - most of them behave badly. After almost 30 years on the Rubicon Trail and in Baja, I can tell
you it's not the 5%. It's most of us.
Harald Pietschmann
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