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DENNIS
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Correct me if I'm wrong or outdated, but aren't working papers still in a category of their own, and a visa a prerequisite to obtaining those working
papers?
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Alm
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Quote: Originally posted by gsbotanico  |
I'm not sure about the cash-cow theory. I spent a lot of money through the years with the annual FM-3 and then five years with the FM-2. I have to
add in the cost of using a public notary when doing it by myself got too complicated and time consuming. And there were multiple trips to the
government offices. |
Money paid to notaries, facilitators and bus companies are your problem, unfortunately. It's not going to the govt - except for whatever taxes they
pay. Govt is only getting visa fees and application fees.
For ground-crossing, spending ~6 months a year and in winter only, there isn't much difference in revenue whether you remain a tourist or get RP.
Could be that RP is slightly more beneficial, since the govt is getting +5,000 MXN at once, not in $25 increments spread over many years, and some
tourists coming without pay.
For frequent visits all year round and/or if you're flying, visitors visas bring more money.
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Alm
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| Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS |
Correct me if I'm wrong or outdated, but aren't working papers still in a category of their own, and a visa a prerequisite to obtaining those working
papers? |
Articulo 60 simply states that RP can work. Working papers are in category of their own, yes, - for those without RP.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: Originally posted by Alm |
Articulo 60 simply states that RP can work. Working papers are in category of their own, yes, - for those without RP. |
I strongly believe that is an incomplete interpretation. There are many foreigners who cross the line daily from the US to work in Tijuana who have
no residency in Mexico.
Any foreigner planning to work in Mexico with only residency permission should seek legal advice.
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Alm
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I am not a lawyer, and my Spanish is still "muy poco". It is possible there exist a different interpretation, but here is what I see:
RP are listed in Art 60 of INM in the paragraph "Las condiciones de estancia que cuentan con permiso de trabajo". This means "Status that includes/has
work permit". I don't see any other conditions mentioned for RP in order to be able to work. Work permit comes with the status. Hypothetically, there
"could be" an additional work paper that is yours for asking, mere formality. Not much interested, don't plan to work 
[Edited on 11-5-2016 by Alm]
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DENNIS
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The mention of a "work permit" indicates the existence of such. Translations are less than conclusive and readers do have a tendency to interpret and
believe what they choose as desirable at the moment. That "fact" has been the basis of real estate nightmares, such as Punta Banda, forever.
Ok...I'm done with it all.
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Alm
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Let's not forget that "permiso" also means "permission". When a status includes such a permission, it doesn't necessarily have to be finalized in the
form of a separate paper "permit".
The document - Lineamientos - is rather lengthy. On a (very) brief glance I didn't notice any mention of the process of applying and processing work
permits for PR, or expediting such a permit like for some other categories.
Doesn't "look" that PR holders are in any danger when working without official paper permit - since a "permission" to work is a feature that comes
with the status. I would inquire if this was important to me. Though... it's not uncommon for 2 different lawyers to have 2 different opinions on
certain paragraphs of INM law
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DENNIS
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I have seen, and personally found that laws and regulations interpreted with a US mindset, can and probably will end up as a disaster for the
interpreter. Mexico law is, by tradition, written for the benefit of those able to buy or coerce decisions at the moment.
Don't ever rely on that swinging in your favor.
Get a lawyer.
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gsbotanico
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| Quote: Originally posted by Alm | | Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS |
Correct me if I'm wrong or outdated, but aren't working papers still in a category of their own, and a visa a prerequisite to obtaining those working
papers? |
Articulo 60 simply states that RP can work. Working papers are in category of their own, yes, - for those without RP. |
I can only speak from my 25+ years of working in Mexico. I always kept my residency in the US. The work papers (FM-3) are in place of a visa. The
FM-3 used to be like a Mexican passport. I could fly and travel all over Mexico using only the FM-3. I never had to buy a visa. When the Mexican
government offered a path to Permanent Residency I converted to a FM-2. This converted to PR after 5 years. In my second or third year with a FM-2
the Mexican government switched to a credit card type of document.
I paid a lot of money to the Mexican government with absolutely no regrets. Of course, I understand that money paid to the public notary didn't go to
the government, although it did go into the local economy. The point I was trying to make, which perhaps I didn't make clearly, is that the Mexican
government didn't need to make me a cash cow, as I had already been one for a lot of years.
Interestingly I have never been asked to prove my legality to work in Mexico. I show the PR card at the airport. Crossing south at the border the
card is useful to speed the process if I'm sent into secondary inspection. If I'm walking, I get in the line with the Mexicans. It's also useful if
I'm stopped by a cop. It shows I'm not an easy mark without saying a word. And who knows? I may want to live in Mexico some day. I call this my
Plan B.
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DENNIS
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The day may be just around the corner [Nov 8] when it will be inadvisable to be caught working in Mexico without proper authority, and I still
contend RP status alone doesn't cover that.
INM may be inactive regularly, but when complaints come from Nationals, INM does respond.
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surabi
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Dennis, what is the point of sitting at your computer "contend"ing things of which you obviously have no knowledge?
RPs may work in Mexico. That is immigration LAW. No special permission necessary, no lawyers necessary, no interpretations, no grey areas.
I have had a business in Mexico for 15 years, first under an FM3 Lucrativa, then TR Lucrativa, now RP. INM only requires that you notify them of a
change in work status, or work address.
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surabi
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Soulpatch,
I live on the mainland. No, things are not different here regarding INM, which is Federal Law.
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DENNIS
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https://www.justlanded.com/english/Mexico/Mexico-Guide/Visas...
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surabi
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Soulpatch, Sorry, I didnīt realize you were being facetious- funny, cause I often am as well. Donīt know if itīs a character flaw- people like Bill
Maher make lots of $ being like that.
I live in Sayulita, and the INM I have had to deal with here (tho hopefully never again, since I am RP now) is in Nuevo Vallarta. I have always found
them quite nice and helpful.
And aside from having to give up my Canadian plated Japanese made car, I feel lucky in that I never had to show any financials, never had to go to any
consulates, since I have had a business here since the get-go, never let my FM3s or TRs lapse, so just segued right into RP.
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gsbotanico
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| Quote: Originally posted by DENNIS |
The day may be just around the corner [Nov 8] when it will be inadvisable to be caught working in Mexico without proper authority, and I still
contend RP status alone doesn't cover that.
INM may be inactive regularly, but when complaints come from Nationals, INM does respond. |
I can vouch in my case that RP does allow me to work legally in Mexico. There are reporting requirements placed on the employer. These include proof
of payment of taxes, of any required benefits, and that a certain ratio of Mexican to non-Mexican workers is maintained. I supplied all this
information to the immigration office yearly until I received my RP.
Over the years there has been a shifting interpretation of the Mexican law, depending on the administration in Mexico City and locally. I did all my
government interaction in Playas de Rosarito. Every time there was an administrative change in the local office, there was new interpretation of the
rules. It's the main reason I finally hired a public notary to help me.
If I choose to live in Mexico, I can become a Mexican citizen in about a year. It involves more paperwork, more money, and a Spanish language
competency test. I don't doubt I would be able to pass the test. I would then have dual citizenship.
I don't expect any change after November 8 that causes me any worry.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: Originally posted by gsbotanico |
I can vouch in my case that RP does allow me to work legally in Mexico. Over the years there has been a shifting interpretation of the Mexican law,
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Interpretation changes with the wind. Without getting into that, I've been searching for something...anything...that supports your assertion, and can
find nothing.
I realize most everybody can work legally in Mexico, but my question is, does RP status supersede all INM permits to do as such? I believe not.
[Hacienda requirements, a separate issue, are not being considered by me in this discussion]
.
[Edited on 11-9-2016 by DENNIS]
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DENNIS
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http://www.mexperience.com/lifestyle/living-in-mexico/visas-...
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gsbotanico
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From the link:
"You should apply for a Permanent Resident Visa commensurate with the economic activity you want to undertake. Some common examples of economic
activities which qualify for this visa are: a company-sponsored job, or an invitation to carry out academic or scientific research. If you have
~100,000 US dollars to invest in a Mexican company you can apply for an investors visa under this category."
I received my RP by a company-sponsored job. I didn't have 100,000 USD!
Some history. I had been working legally under a yearly FM-3 work permit. The permit said, "Con fines de lucro." In other words, "for profit," or
to earn money. Because of the large number of American living in the northern Baja coastal area, the Mexican government started a new program to get
an estimated 20,000 foreigners legalized. Call it amnesty, if you will. I always thought it was a quid pro quo for the cries for amnesty for all the
illegal Mexican working the the US.
The program of "legalization" included people like myself who were working, but not living full-time in Mexico. I enrolled in the five-year program
leading to the RP. The Mexican government was completely aware of my status as a worker, not a resident. This included an interview the fifth year.
I always used my US address.
There's a remote possibility that the RP could be taken away from me. Very unlikely because of the extensive cross border commercial interests
between California and Baja. If I were to lose mine, so would a lot of other people.
After all, it does say "permanente" on my card.
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Alm
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So far I don't see anything rebutting what Dennis said, i.e. that RP status in itself gives the right to work, automatically and unconditionally
(licensing requirements are not being discussed here).
Statements like "I know that this is so", are - well, I won't comment on those.
RP gringos "work", yes.
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capitolkat
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Well this topic has gone everywhere, but back to the subject at hand- do I need a new RP card because of a format change?
Looks like the answer is no. I checked with the local Immigration expert, in La Paz, who helped me get my RP card and he said no. He doesn't have a
clue why some random immigration clerk in the Guadalajara airport told me that I need a new card and not my wife - who also holds an RP card, issued
at the same time as mine.
So, for those who asked me to fill them in when I checked this out-- No known change in format for the RP cards.
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