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JoeJustJoe
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Quote: Originally posted by David K  | Of course, but it is also illogical to create a traffic jam that goes back as far as San Clemente, which is what would happen if they stopped,
questioned, and made those without them park and get them.
So, a few of us go through the process and the other 90% don't.
If Mexico wanted to streamline this better, they would sell permits that go on the window, online, and monitors would scan them as they cross the
border. Every gringo car without a sticker would be sent to a huge parking lot. Naturally, it means another nail in the coffin of casual tourism with
these government regulations that only hurt tourist businesses in Mexico once they are enforced to this degree. |
So finally, I get David K. to admit the obvious.
David K. wrote: " So, a few of us go through the process and the other 90% don't."
So why are you and others keep insisting everybody stop and get a FMM even if they are just taking a day trip into Baja, when most everybody else just
drives right through, and do not stop and get a FMM, that even Mexican officials, admits they don't have the resources to make all foreigners comply
with any new laws, and therefore, they are only enforcing the FMM at the pedestrians walkway.
I don't want to get into the politics, and marketing in regards to Mexican immigrant laws, because that's not supposed to be the main concern when
determining immigration polices. Keeping it's citizens safe, is supposed to be the main concern.
I also have read some of your past posts David K. where you seem to believe, Mexico, should have a pretty much open border, when it comes to Americans
crossing over the border, because it really helps Mexico with those American tourist dollars.
If you feel this way, then why can't the USA, have a pretty much open border for Mexicans wanting to come over?
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David K
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Each country has a right to chose who can come in and how the process should work. Mexico and the United States are very different countries so to
think they each should have the same border controls is not realistic.
Because 90% don't have an FMM doesn't make it ok. It's about the law, not the majority (kind of like the difference between a republic and a
democracy).
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BajaTed
Senior Nomad
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K |
If Mexico wanted to streamline this better, they would sell permits that go on the window, online, and monitors would scan them as they cross the
border. |
This is the exact concept behind "Frontiers without Borders"
how can this be, truth isn't true? perfect, D5 would be proud
Es Todo Bueno
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: Originally posted by sancho | | Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe |
if they refused to honor a claim because you didn't have a FMM when you got into a accident, unless it was spelled out in their fine print
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Exactly my point, it IS spelled out in both HDI and the newer
Chubb Mex Ins. Co's fine print, referring to the policy holder 'has to be
in Mex legally', never did I say it has been used to avoid a
claim. As for taking the word of a US based Mex Ins. sales
broker, acting simply as a salesman for the Mex carrier, above the Mex Ins. clearly written policy clause is a naive position
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I doubt Chubb, insurance, would refuse to honor a claim if one of their insured driver got into an accident, and later Chubb, finds out they didn't
have an FMM.
That would be about equal if an insurance company refused to honor an auto policy, if a driver was engaged in an illegal activity, and that illegal
activity was running a red light, that resulted in the accident.
Now I can see the insurance company trying to deny a claim, if the accident happened during the commission of a crime, because that's something
material.
I believe David K. was accurate, when he said Baja Bounds, doesn't consider immigration status in their policies.
The Mexican police are not federal immigration agents either.
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Location: San Diego County
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It is Baja Bound, and I said their owner posted here that he conferred with the company (companies) they represent and the answer (he was given from
them) is that they will not deny coverage based on immigration status.
Baja Bound sells the policies of the Mexican Insurance Companies. They do go to bat on behalf of their clients if there is a problem. This is likely
true of other Mexican Insurance brokers, such as Discover Baja, Vagabundos del Mar, Lewis & Lewis, etc.
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bajarich
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No response from OP. The 16 passports was probably something he didn't think about.
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JoeJustJoe
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | Each country has a right to chose who can come in and how the process should work. Mexico and the United States are very different countries so to
think they each should have the same border controls is not realistic.
Because 90% don't have an FMM doesn't make it ok. It's about the law, not the majority (kind of like the difference between a republic and a
democracy). |
Since I still see other ultra conservatives are still pushing the FMM, on other threads, and on anybody that drives over the border, I want to once
again remind everybody that over 90% of people, including foreign Americans, do not stop to get a FMM, and even David K. admits to this fact.
You can repeat it's the LAW, all you want, but if Mexico, is not enforcing the law, because they do not have the resources to have everybody pull over
and get a FMM, if driving into Mexico. Nobody is getting arrested and being deported back to the US, if they don't have the FMM.
What you're doing is the equivalent of finding some old anti sodomy law in the US law, that the police do not enforce, but it's like you're telling
couples, you better not engage in any back door action, because the law says, you can't do it.
People can do what they want but when I drive in Mexico, I'm not going to get any stinking FMM, it would be a waste of time and energy. If I fly into
Mexico, I will get the FMM, because that's when it's enforced. If I walk in, I will also get the FMM, if required too, but more than half the time,
they give me back my passport, and allow me to walk in without the FMM, because I told them it's only a day trip.
[Edited on 12-21-2018 by JoeJustJoe]
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DaliDali
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Posts: 1132
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| Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe | | Quote: Originally posted by David K | Each country has a right to chose who can come in and how the process should work. Mexico and the United States are very different countries so to
think they each should have the same border controls is not realistic.
Because 90% don't have an FMM doesn't make it ok. It's about the law, not the majority (kind of like the difference between a republic and a
democracy). |
Since I still see other ultra conservatives are still pushing the FMM, on other threads, and on anybody that drives over the border, I want to once
again remind everybody that over 90% of people, including foreign Americans, do not stop to get a FMM, and even David K. admits to this fact.
You can repeat it's the LAW
[Edited on 12-21-2018 by JoeJustJoe] |
Well yeah......because it IS the law.
And you, as the defender of all that is Mexico, and a staunch defender of it's leader, toss a turd into your heros lap......."I don't need no stinking
FMM"
It is irresonsible to lead people to believe they don't need no "stinking FMM", when the LAW dictates otherwise, no matter the percentage of people
who don't stop to get one.
If YOU don't want to get a "stinky FMM" fine and dandy, but openly spreading that around here, as rule to be ignored is IRRESPONSIBLE.
STOP telling people what to do and what to think.
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KasloKid
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As an inmate put it so eloquently a while back:
"If you're in enough chit where you need an FMM, you better f**g well have one"
Trouble is, the public who get into enough chit for not having one will never admit to it, will they? It gives a false sense of security to ignore
what is legally required of every visitor to Mexico.
Although I've only been asked twice in Baja to produce my FMM (the last time was in November at the new Mexicali border crossing), I've been asked 4
times in mainland Mexico to do so. My personal experience and opinion is they are starting to ramp up enforcement of the requirement.
Bottom line, it's up to every individual to decide what works for them until it doesn't.
[Edited on 12-21-2018 by KasloKid]
[Edited on 12-21-2018 by KasloKid]
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Pacifico
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Posts: 1299
Registered: 5-26-2008
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| Quote: Originally posted by KasloKid | As an inmate put it so eloquently a while back:
"If you're in enough chit where you need an FMM, you better f**g well have one"
Trouble is, the public who get into enough chit for not having one will never admit to it, will they? It gives a false sense of security to ignore
what is legally required of every visitor to Mexico.
Although I've only been asked twice in Baja to produce my FMM (the last time was in November at the new Mexicali border crossing), I've been asked 4
times in mainland Mexico to do so. My personal experience and opinion is they are starting to ramp up enforcement of the requirement.
Bottom line, it's up to every individual to decide what works for them until it doesn't.
[Edited on 12-21-2018 by KasloKid]
[Edited on 12-21-2018 by KasloKid] |
Exactly...It's not a problem, until it's a problem. It's a roll of the dice most the time. But, I'd rather err on the side of having my ducks in a row
when it comes to the law; especially in Mexico. It's one less thing to worry about.
"Plan your life as if you are going to live forever. Live your life as if you are going to die tomorrow." - Carlos Fiesta
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caj13
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Thanks for all the input guys,
First I mispoke, we are crossing at San Ysidro, Yes we all have passports, and the kids belong to the parents on the trip, so thats all ok.
I am not keen on driving the first part in the dark, but making the trip in one day is preferable to stretching it out to 2 days each way, and if we
did extend the travel, now we are limiting the time in BA. Trying to find a time schedule that works for 4 different families, not easy!
and yeah 16 people is a headache, and really fun too! but it does require a sense of serentiy, and a sense of humor as well! watching kids
experience new stuff - thats priceless!
[Edited on 12-21-2018 by caj13]
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Pacifico
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That's good you are crossing at San Ysidro...Tecate could be a problem at 2 am getting tourist cards. Have a great trip!
"Plan your life as if you are going to live forever. Live your life as if you are going to die tomorrow." - Carlos Fiesta
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
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| Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali |
Well yeah......because it IS the law.
And you, as the defender of all that is Mexico, and a staunch defender of it's leader, toss a turd into your heros lap......."I don't need no stinking
FMM"
It is irresonsible to lead people to believe they don't need no "stinking FMM", when the LAW dictates otherwise, no matter the percentage of people
who don't stop to get one.
If YOU don't want to get a "stinky FMM" fine and dandy, but openly spreading that around here, as rule to be ignored is IRRESPONSIBLE.
STOP telling people what to do and what to think.
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DaliDali, you must have me confused with YOU! I don't have an authoritarian personality, nor do I believe I'm a traffic cop, who repeats IT's THE LAW!
IT'S THE LAW!
I only say, if there is any requirement around the border area, where the majority of tourist travel within. The Mexican government is not enforcing
any FMM requirement. I would go so far as saying, they don't even want you to park, get out of your car, and get a FMM, if you're only staying less
than 7 days, and staying within the so-called,official/unofficial free zone.
Mexico couldn't handle the traffic, if everybody was getting out of their car at the border and getting a FMM. The lines would be more than 3 hours
long! Now if you're going to do some serious traveling in Baja/Mexico, then it would make sense to get a FMM.
But I never tell others what to do, and only mention what I do.
I do often give this advice. Many things you see written on "Baja Nomad" and other sites is often wrong, and it doesn't matter if multiple people are
saying the same thing, that's just herd mentality at work.
So what I do is the opposite of whatever the herd is telling you, and you usually will not be sorry.
DaliDali, you remind me of this old guy who was in front of me at the pedestrian border at San Ysidro about a year ago. The Mexican customs agent
asked him a couple of questions, and then quickly handed the passport back to the old dude, and waved to him the other line that exits to TJ. (
obviously the old dude was staying less than 72 hours, but I didn't hear the exchange until the old dude raised his voice)
The old dude, then throw a fit, and then demanded the Mexican official give him a FMM! The Mexican official rolled his eyes, and handed the old dude
the FMM form, and made the old dude fill it out. ( usually the Mexicans officials fill it out for you) The old dude, was grumbling about how corrupt
Mexico is, and was going on and on.......myself and others in the line were just shaking our heads.
This is something I also do, if a Mexican official, tells me I don't need something, I take their advice, and I don't raise my voice and argue with
them like an ugly American.
[Edited on 12-21-2018 by JoeJustJoe]
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DaliDali
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Posts: 1132
Registered: 4-21-2010
Location: BCS
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| Quote: Originally posted by JoeJustJoe | | Quote: Originally posted by DaliDali |
Well yeah......because it IS the law.
And you, as the defender of all that is Mexico, and a staunch defender of it's leader, toss a turd into your heros lap......."I don't need no stinking
FMM"
It is irresonsible to lead people to believe they don't need no "stinking FMM", when the LAW dictates otherwise, no matter the percentage of people
who don't stop to get one.
If YOU don't want to get a "stinky FMM" fine and dandy, but openly spreading that around here, as rule to be ignored is IRRESPONSIBLE.
STOP telling people what to do and what to think.
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IT's THE LAW! IT'S THE LAW!
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IT IS!! ....IT IS!!
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JoeJustJoe
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So who is right, this site that offers car insurance to travelers to Mexico, or the ultra conservatives, who are color blind, and only see black and
white, and say, "it's the law, you always need a FMM," if you're traveling six minutes or six miles into Mexico, that you need a FMM?
Could both sides be both right and wrong, since Mexico, is not exactly a black or white country?
__________________________________
What is the Mexico Free/Border Zone?
The Mexico Free or Border Zone was designated by the Mexican government to make it easier for travelers to enter Mexico and improve tourism along the
U.S. border. Vehicles driving in these zones do not need a Temporary Vehicle Importation Permit (TIP). And, for stays less than 72 hours in the Free
Zone, a tourist visa is not required.
Additionally, goods—with the exclusion of alcohol, cigarettes, cigars and race horses—can be imported into Mexico duty free, as long as within
these boundaries. This way resources can be moved easily across the border for manufacturing and assembly plants. And, once produced, the items can be
exported outside of Mexico duty free, giving companies incentive to produce in Mexico, and in turn, creating more jobs for Mexicans living there.
The ‘Free zone’ designation is actually short for ‘Hassle Free Zone,’ but the area has many other names including: Border Zone, Perimeter
Zone, Liberated Zone, the Free Trade Zone and ‘Zona Libre’ (in Spanish).
What if I accidentally travel outside the free zone without a TIP?
It is illegal to travel outside the Mexico free zone without a TIP. Your vehicle could be confiscated and you could be escorted back to the border or
taken to jail.
https://www.mexpro.com/blog/mexico-free-border-zone
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caj13
Super Nomad
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Registered: 8-1-2017
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Nope, got that covered 2 months ago, just reading, listening and learning
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willardguy
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for those of you that live here and probably are doing so legally I can't for the life of me understand why you're so hell bent on tourists stopping
for a FMM.....for you tourists you should be applauding those that don't bother, quicker, easier crossing for you and more vacation time!
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sancho
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2524
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Location: OC So Cal
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Some here think because they reside in Mex their opinions on
Mex Imm regs supersede others. Who among us would welcome
standing on the side of the hwy, being involved in a serious
wreck, and due to a curious cop questions about our being
in the Country legally? And not being able to prove it. Don't
you think that may put one at a slight disadvantage?
I for one would never, due to lack of preparation, give
leverage to Mex Authorities.
The position some take, 'I've been driving Baja for some
(exaggerated) # of yrs., never had an issue, therefore this
would never happen' is shortsighted
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KasloKid
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Registered: 8-29-2009
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My grandkids keeps reminding me that just because I read it on the internet, doesn't make it true, no matter what the source.
My Christmas wish is for those who choose to assume what the law/requirements are as far as not getting an FMM, may never be in a position where they
have to produce evidence that they and their family are in Mexico legally.
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JoeJustJoe
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Again, there is no proof that you need a FMM to be insured to drive in the upper part of Baja, or the so-called free zone.
It's just a myth that takes on a life of it's own, and gets passed down from group member to group member, until it becomes an alternative reality
among the masses.
If you're an American tourist in Baja, with your passport, and without a FMM, you are not an illegal American, that should be deported and stripped
of your auto insurance rights. Read the declaration page carefully for the exclusions, but don't read anything into it that's not there. The
exclusions should be something material, not minor, like a traffic ticket.
My Christmas wish is for not everybody to not be scared of Mexico, and then act out of that fear, especially when things recommended do not make any
sense and waste your time.
_______________
Someone should call Mexpro, if their auto policy will cover you if you get into an accident in Baja, and you don't have a FMM.
"Absolutely. Liability insurance provided by a Mexican insurer is required to drive your vehicle in Mexico. Without liability insurance, you
could be detained until you can prove the ability to pay damages in an at-fault accident. Mexico laws continue to get stricter, so be prepared with
Mexico insurance."
[Edited on 12-22-2018 by JoeJustJoe]
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