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surabi
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Quote: Originally posted by bajaric  | | In Mexico, colonized by Spanish soldiers, the young single men, as young single men are prone to do, noticed the beauty of the native women and
created a vigorous new race, that of the mestizo. [Edited on 6-24-2020 by bajaric] |
Gee, you make it sound so romantic. As if they were dating. Shame on you.
Let me fix it so it's accurate.
"In Mexico, colonized by Spanish soldiers, the soldiers, as invading armies are prone to do, raped the native women."
[Edited on 6-26-2020 by surabi]
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bajaric
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Quote: Originally posted by bajaric | | In Mexico, colonized by Spanish soldiers, the young single men, as young single men are prone to do, noticed the beauty of the native women and
created a vigorous new race, that of the mestizo. [Edited on 6-24-2020 by bajaric] |
Gee, you make it sound so romantic. As if they were dating. Shame on you.
Let me fix it so it's accurate.
"In Mexico, colonized by Spanish soldiers, the soldiers, as invading armies are prone to do, raped the native women."
[Edited on 6-26-2020 by surabi] |
My way of saying was it much nicer. Besides, I am quite sure that in many cases the offspring of Spanish soldiers and indigenous women was a result
of mutual attraction, not the brutal alternative that you suggest. It points out the difficulty of looking at history through the lens of modern
sensibilities.
[Edited on 6-26-2020 by bajaric]
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surabi
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Your way of stating it was much nicer? There's nothing nice about invading another country or raping the victims. And it's not often that you find
"mutual attraction" between colonizers and the invaded.
Yours is a case of magical thinking with no basis in reality.
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LancairDriver
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If the writings of Bartolome’ de Las Casas , who was in campaigns under Cortez, Pizzaro, and other genocidal actions of the early 1500’s had been
heeded we would be having an entirely different conversation today.He was outraged with the treatment of the Indians and carried his concerns all the
way to the top Spanish authorities including the King, for all the good it did. There is a short account that He published that was very popular in
Europe.
The “Short account of the Destruction of the Indies in 1542” describes atrocities then being committed to this day, and for the same reasons. This
is available in paperback or on Kindle. Very good read. Don’t waste your time complaining about the religious slant popular in that period.
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pmiller
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mtgoat666's recap of the friars and the Mexicans doesn't sound that much different from the Catholic altar boys of my youth or for that matter Penn
State Football.
"Mortal sin" and "burning in hell for eternity" were the more modern methods of coercion vs. beatings and stocks. Plus the parents were required to be
there every Sunday with money in an envelope to keep the abusers in liquor.
I am not sure it is a "white man" thing. Maybe more of a "gay" thing.
What it really is is a stupidity thing, then and now.
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Barry A.
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Good grief!!!! If you want to mentally agonize about the past, then that is your choice. People living today hopefully have evolved, knowing the
problems of the past in human history. Lets get on with today, and stop agonizing about the past.
Life is great!!! Enjoy it.
Barry
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Juan N.
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Quote: Originally posted by bajaric | | In Mexico, colonized by Spanish soldiers, the young single men, as young single men are prone to do, noticed the beauty of the native women and
created a vigorous new race, that of the mestizo. [Edited on 6-24-2020 by bajaric] |
Gee, you make it sound so romantic. As if they were dating. Shame on you.
Let me fix it so it's accurate.
"In Mexico, colonized by Spanish soldiers, the soldiers, as invading armies are prone to do, raped the native women."
[Edited on 6-26-2020 by surabi] |
Now there is a great example of overly simplified revisionists history. Bit to ideological. Native women readily married Spanish soldiers as it meant
an increase in status and a better life for them and their children. Did racism and sexism play a role in this dynamic? Yes, it is still considerably
more common for white men to marry non white women than white women to marry non white men, an example of how far we still have to go.
These women did have some agency and yes even fell in love,speant their lives with their husbands, and raised families. We are talking about human
beings. The metizo population of the Americas is not the result of mass rape.
[Edited on 6-27-2020 by Juan N.]
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by Barry A. | Good grief!!!! If you want to mentally agonize about the past, then that is your choice. People living today hopefully have evolved, knowing the
problems of the past in human history. Lets get on with today, and stop agonizing about the past.
Life is great!!! Enjoy it.
Barry |
When the white majority erect statues in the city center to venerate white supremacists, minorities who care about their community should tear down
the symbols of hate erected by the racist white majority!
When racists erect statues at city hall to honor racists, every moral person should strongly object and tear down the symbols of hate!
Barry, shame on you for criticizing people trying to right wrongs!
Trump and his hateful menagerie are on an an express train to hell, less than a year before we complete the exorcism of hate from government!
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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surabi
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| Quote: Originally posted by Juan N. | | Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Quote: Originally posted by bajaric | | In Mexico, colonized by Spanish soldiers, the young single men, as young single men are prone to do, noticed the beauty of the native women and
created a vigorous new race, that of the mestizo. [Edited on 6-24-2020 by bajaric] |
Gee, you make it sound so romantic. As if they were dating. Shame on you.
Let me fix it so it's accurate.
"In Mexico, colonized by Spanish soldiers, the soldiers, as invading armies are prone to do, raped the native women."
[Edited on 6-26-2020 by surabi] |
Now there is a great example of overly simplified revisionists history. Bit to ideological. Native women readily married Spanish soldiers as it meant
an increase in status and a better life for them and their children. Did racism and sexism play a role in this dynamic? Yes, it is still considerably
more common for white men to marry non white women than white women to marry non white men, an example of how far we still have to go.
These women did have some agency and yes even fell in love,speant their lives with their husbands, and raised families. We are talking about human
beings. The metizo population of the Americas is not the result of mass rape.
[Edited on 6-27-2020 by Juan N.] |
Thanks so much for mansplaining.
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Juan N.
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| Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Quote: Originally posted by Juan N. | | Quote: Originally posted by surabi | | Quote: Originally posted by bajaric | | In Mexico, colonized by Spanish soldiers, the young single men, as young single men are prone to do, noticed the beauty of the native women and
created a vigorous new race, that of the mestizo. [Edited on 6-24-2020 by bajaric] |
Gee, you make it sound so romantic. As if they were dating. Shame on you.
Let me fix it so it's accurate.
"In Mexico, colonized by Spanish soldiers, the soldiers, as invading armies are prone to do, raped the native women."
[Edited on 6-26-2020 by surabi] |
Now there is a great example of overly simplified revisionists history. Bit to ideological. Native women readily married Spanish soldiers as it meant
an increase in status and a better life for them and their children. Did racism and sexism play a role in this dynamic? Yes, it is still considerably
more common for white men to marry non white women than white women to marry non white men, an example of how far we still have to go.
These women did have some agency and yes even fell in love,speant their lives with their husbands, and raised families. We are talking about human
beings. The metizo population of the Americas is not the result of mass rape.
[Edited on 6-27-2020 by Juan N.] |
Thanks so much for mansplaining. |
That's a cop-out, a weak one at that. Cute.
[Edited on 6-27-2020 by Juan N.]
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MrBillM
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Pick up the Pace ?
While the continuing efforts to resolve the "mission-building Spaniards v. Aborigines" question is unquestionably critical to the future of
world relations and the discourse here is (at times) entertaining, with five centuries of social trivial pursuit still to be covered
.................. shouldn't we all just get along and move on ?
How are we going to resolve all of those historical ills at this rate ?
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bajaric
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Welcome to the sand box Juan, and I agree with you.
Don't mind the old codgers --
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David K
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Yes, welcome Juan... I have to bite my tongue to keep from reacting too quickly to the incredible amount of ignorance a few readily display here...
all in some kind of effort so that they get kudos from fellow 'newthink' re-education-camp graduates!
When one reads the history written by those alive at the time, a more direct understanding of both what happened and what was their reasoning, can be
made.
Most soldiers were good Catholics and married their mates. Things did change dramatically when the government took over the California missions (1768)
with the removal of the Jesuits, and like any big government program, life for the people went to hell. There was some bad apples. However, to lump
the entire 150+ years of the missions into the basket of bad stuff is very inaccurate. I won't go on, it is a beautiful day and I don't want to stay
indoors.
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MrBillM
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Judging the Past is a Blast
The GREAT thing about critically rehashing centuries-old ills is the lack of responsibility to actually DO anything.
From the comfort of one's keyboard, sipping a cuppa java (or a cerveza ?), guilt can be argued and judgement rendered without effort, inconvenience or
cost.
With all of the adversaries long ago dead, one is comforted with a satisfying glow of righteous self-esteem with no actual involvement.
Carry On, History Harpies.
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MrBillM
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Have FUN ............
With that "feel good" stuff.
In my own "Acerbic" manner, that IS what I'm saying.
Recognizing that Historical Hysteria of this sort accomplishes nothing beyond massaging egos while displaying piety in repetitious
restatements of moral rectitude, I wish them "Bon Chance" in their esteem-enhancement.
As I've noted long before regarding various verbal jousts of this sort, there are NO minds to be molded. This forum (like most) is populated with
confirmed advocates for adversarial positions. The goal is not self-enlightenment, but advocacy.
HAVE FUN.
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wessongroup
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Two really good ones
[Edited on 6-29-2020 by wessongroup]
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bajatrailrider
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Wondering if BLM people will want to tear down missions in Baja.
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David K
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The Past is what has made us who we are today.
To erase the past or destroy the artifacts of the past could remove our connection to it.
It doesn't have to be all rainbows and unicorns.
The bad that we overcame is what made us better.
To pretend events didn't happen can only lead to them being repeated.
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bajatrailrider
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Agree David but with today's problems . This info does nothing .
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: Originally posted by David K | The Past is what has made us who we are today.
To erase the past or destroy the artifacts of the past could remove our connection to it.
It doesn't have to be all rainbows and unicorns.
The bad that we overcame is what made us better.
To pretend events didn't happen can only lead to them being repeated.
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Nobody says we are to forget about our past People rightly think we should not venerate our past bad boys.
Woke!
“...ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country.” “My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America
will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man.”
Prefered gender pronoun: the royal we
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