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Bajahowodd
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
the lax enforcement |
It's always been lax. I just figured they didn't want to start any tit-for-tat nonsense with the US. God knows it's been lax up there.
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Laxity was mostly tolerated for two very different reasons. The first was that the business community benefited from low cost labor, especially in
onerous jobs like meat packing. The second was that during a long run of just about as full employment as we could achieve, no one really felt that
jobs were being taken by illegal foreigners. Just goes to show what 10+% unemployment can do to change a mood.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Until recently, entering Mexico without proper documentation was a felony punishable by up to 10 years in prison, as codified in the country's General
Law of Population.
In 2008, that penalty was reduced to a fine of up to 5,000 pesos, or about $400.
The punishments were reduced in 2008 partly because police were using the heavy penalty as leverage for extortion.
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Hey, Bro....How about a cease and decist on putting my name with quotes that arn't mine.
Thanks.
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tripledigitken
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Bajahowodd,
Economics no doubt played a part of the motivation, but seriously the kidnapping and the escalation of violence NOTB in AZ played the bigger role I
would wager. It's ugly over there.
Don't forget that 2 years ago the Feds were raiding meat packing plants. In San Diego County they went after Golden State Fence, a contractor doing
the Border Fence contract and numerous projects on Naval Facilities as well. That one floored me. Doing work on military bases you have to provide
ID's for all workers to get a pass to enter. Homeland Security goes over the records of all employees working on the Border Contracts. Gross
incompetance on the part of the Government, and huge huevos on the part of the contractor.
Ken
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MrBillM
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BUT, Fugly Janet says ...............
The Southern Border is now MORE secure than it's EVER been !
Nappy doesn't lie, does she ?
How could things be so bad ? Wasn't SHE in charge of Arizona ?
There must be something we're missing.
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Cypress
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Adopt Mexico's immigration laws and enforce them. A simple solution to all this BS. But, if they were enforcing the law???
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
Adopt Mexico's immigration laws and enforce them. |
Which Mexico border? North or south? Has everybody heard how they treat the undocumented travelers coming to Mexico from Central America? It ain't
pretty.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news-and-updates/report/widespread...
[Edited on 4-30-2010 by DENNIS]
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Bajahowodd
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They've got their own selfish reason. Primarily, immigrants coming from the South have little interest in staying in Mexico. Their goal is to reach El
Norte. Mexico views them as unwanted competition.
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Bajahowodd
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
Bajahowodd,
Economics no doubt played a part of the motivation, but seriously the kidnapping and the escalation of violence NOTB in AZ played the bigger role I
would wager. It's ugly over there.
Don't forget that 2 years ago the Feds were raiding meat packing plants. In San Diego County they went after Golden State Fence, a contractor doing
the Border Fence contract and numerous projects on Naval Facilities as well. That one floored me. Doing work on military bases you have to provide
ID's for all workers to get a pass to enter. Homeland Security goes over the records of all employees working on the Border Contracts. Gross
incompetance on the part of the Government, and huge huevos on the part of the contractor.
Ken |
Ken- Totally understand what you are saying. Phoenix, in particular has witnessed a mini Juarez. However, my comments were based more upon the
national change of heart on illegals.
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mtgoat666
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Registered: 9-16-2006
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Desert Derangement Syndrome
NYT
April 28, 2010, 9:00 pm
Desert Derangement Syndrome
By TIMOTHY EGAN
PHOENIX — Driving south from the high, age-worn plateau of northern Arizona, where the earth seems to have turned itself inside-out, I pulled over to
take in the full sweep and wonder of this place during one of its better moments. The infinity of sky, the open gallery of sandstone masterpieces — it
never fails to amaze.
Arizona is full of ancient communities — the Hopi, the Papago, the Havasupai, the Navajo — and outsized geology, with the Painted Desert, the
Superstition Mountains and the big slit of the Grand Canyon.
From Show Low to Tombstone, from Snowflake to Casa Grande, from the tiny Indian village at the bottomof the canyon to the Colorado River town that
reassembled the old London Bridge on its desert edge, this is the American West of singular scenery and goofy glory.
But for all its diversity of land and people, Arizona is also a lunatic magnet. As I drove, I listened to the radio blather of a state in mob-rule
frenzy of cranky old men. Once in Phoenix, I saw on television that sign in a car’s rear window, the new image of Arizona to the rest of the world:
“I’m Mexican. Pull me over.”
This week, Jon Stewart called Arizona the “the meth lab of democracy.” A few days ago, the governor signed the instantly infamous “show me your
papers” law, allowing authorities to stop and question anyone who looks Hispanic. Another new measure lets people carry concealed weapons without a
permit, following on the heels of the new-found freedom to pack heat in bars and restaurants, something that was outlawed in much of the Old West. And
the state house has just approved a bill that would require candidates for high office to show a birth certificate.
The birther bill is a sop to the flat-earthers who believe — without a shred of evidence, even after all the hard work of hard-right
opposition-research — that our president was not born in the U.S.A.
“It suggests that Arizona is a place where any crackpot whim can be enshrined into law.” That was the verdict from the sensibly conservative Arizona
Republic, the state’s leading newspaper, which had also urged the Republican governor, Jan Brewer, to veto the immigration bill that could foster a
police state. She signed it, of course.
Stewart, the Mark Twain of our day with a New Jersey quirk or two, got it right with his meth lab jab. But Arizona is more than a laboratory for
intemperate times: this place is a warning of what a state can look like when it’s run by talk-radio demagogues and their television cohorts.
The crackpot laws owe their genesis to the crackpots who dominate Republican politics, who in turn cannot get elected without the backing of crackpot
media.
Arizona has always had a Looney Tunes side: who can forget Governor Evan Mecham, the car dealer with the bad toupee who used a tired insult to
describe black children, told a Jewish audience that the United States was a “Christian nation” and canceled the holiday for Dr. Martin Luther King,
Jr. He made history of a sorts: the first American governor to be removed from office by impeachment in nearly 70 years.
But Arizona has also given us smart, competent, forward-looking governors who stopped the crazies at the executive door. Now, there is not single
adult with a spine — let alone a conservative in the mold of Barry Goldwater, who had a healthy distrust of handing the police too much power — left
among the Republican governing majority.
Can it get any worse? Well, yes. Somewhere deep in the Sonoran Desert is the lost soul of John McCain. He’s taken back nearly everything he ever said
or did that was admirable. He’s trying to get reelected to a fifth senate term by being just as grumpy, intolerant and wild-eyed as the aging white
voters who make up the primary voting base for Republicans.
His Republican opponent, naturally, is a former wingnut talk radio host and ousted congressman, J.D. Hayworth. To lose to Hayworth, who was thrown out
in 2006 from his safe Republican district in tony Scottsdale because of his immigrant-bashing and ties to a disgraced lobbyist, would be the lowest
form of ignominy, but perhaps fitting.
Hayworth is 250 pounds of broadcast-ready bile, a windbag hall of famer. He compared gay marriage to nuptials with a horse, said the birther bill did
not go far enough and wrote a book with the tells-all-you-need-to-know title of “Whatever It Takes.”
Still, a sane plurality may yet show its face. Arizona is home to more than 2 million Hispanics — about 30 percent of its population. They are much
younger than the average white voter, and do not show up at the polls in great numbers. They will now. Young people, business owners and retirees who
are not afraid of the demographic change washing over America — they have also been on the sideline.
While the fringe that controls state government goes after the fastest-growing ethnic group in the country with a law that makes a mockery of American
values, Arizona crumbles. Its state parks are orphans, left to volunteers. Its university system is being slashed and picked to death. They even
considered a plan to sell the House and Senate buildings. What business will want to relocate to such a place?
It will cost these hot-heads running the state. Probably not this year. But soon enough, because Americans have always considered the West a place
that looks to tomorrow through a lens of hope, instead of hiding in the past, in fear.
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Cypress
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Other than criticism, do any of our liberal posters have anything constructive to add to this topic or is it just another blame the Republicans
fest?
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
Other than criticism, do any of our liberal posters have anything constructive to add to this topic...? |
constructive criticism 
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Gypsy Jan
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This Is From Another Site
Made by an anonymous commenter, I thought it was worth sharing.
"The Arizona law is at its core a pro-crime piece of legislation. It is a gift from the Arizona legislature to street criminals and to the drug gangs
that operate along the US-Mexican border. It tells illegal immigrants that they should never call the police under any circumstances, and it tells
criminals that they can act with complete impunity as long as their victims are illegal immigrants. It ensures silence and prevents cooperation with
law enforcement agencies.
If the drug cartels did not lobby for this legislation, they should have. It definitely works for them."
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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Packoderm
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I don't believe that so many of the liberals are against curbing illegal immigration. They're just not as vocal about it as the ones who want either
unlimited immigration or at least for the U.S. to coalesce with Mexico. The true liberals would see the Mexican socioeconomic system as slanted toward
the haves and would want to stop the right's apparent agenda for the U.S. to adopt the same lopsided economic system dead in its tracks. You won't
find real liberals chatting about on the internet. Liberals on chat sites are mainly ideological liberals. Go to the job sites and union halls and ask
them about foreigners sneaking into this country. The same goes with the true conservatives - the very, very small percent of the U.S. population that
actually controls the strings on us puppets. They don't want to end the supply cheap labor and the devaluation of the labor that's here. In short,
this whole illegal immigration debate is a farce.
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Gypsy Jan
Made by an anonymous commenter, I thought it was worth sharing.
"The Arizona law is at its core a pro-crime piece of legislation. It is a gift from the Arizona legislature to street criminals and to the drug gangs
that operate along the US-Mexican border. It tells illegal immigrants that they should never call the police under any circumstances, and it tells
criminals that they can act with complete impunity as long as their victims are illegal immigrants. It ensures silence and prevents cooperation with
law enforcement agencies.
If the drug cartels did not lobby for this legislation, they should have. It definitely works for them." |
That seems like MORE great reasons people should stop violating our border and come here the legal way! Please respect our immigration laws!
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Packoderm
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There essentially is no legal way. You have to show you are highly educated and gainfully employed. That cuts out a big swath of the demographic that
wants in. The only real legal way would be a temporary worker program.
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Bajaboy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
There essentially is no legal way. You have to show you are highly educated and gainfully employed. That cuts out a big swath of the demographic that
wants in. The only real legal way would be a temporary worker program. |
Are you suggesting this for Mexico? I'd love to pick up a seasonal bartending job.
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Packoderm
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajaboy
| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
There essentially is no legal way. You have to show you are highly educated and gainfully employed. That cuts out a big swath of the demographic that
wants in. The only real legal way would be a temporary worker program. |
Are you suggesting this for Mexico? I'd love to pick up a seasonal bartending job. |
If our two countries were to work out a successful worker exchange program, the workers would have to work within established job categories. For
instance, a Mexican holding an alter-resistant U.S. guest-worker card would have a card indicating agriculture or food processing for a firm licensed
within the program. [Same goes for U.S. workers working in Mexico.] Sadly for you, this would likely not permit freelance jobs such as bar tending.
[Edited on 5/1/2010 by Packoderm]
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MrBillM
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Be OUR Guest
A Guest-Worker program has ALWAYS been the proper way to deal with the "supposed" need for immigrant labor.
The Liberals, bowing to their Union constituency, have always been the opposition.
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Packoderm
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
A Guest-Worker program has ALWAYS been the proper way to deal with the "supposed" need for immigrant labor.
The Liberals, bowing to their Union constituency, have always been the opposition. |
That certainly would be the case. They could possibly change their tune if the program could assure that guest workers would be working only in
determined capacities such as agriculture harvesting and other seasonal jobs. The problem (not a problem for employers) comes when immigrants come in
and take over job sites and entire vocations. We don't need guest workers working in fast food. The fast food industry can pay market wages just like
In & Out Burgers does.
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David K
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Packoderm
| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
A Guest-Worker program has ALWAYS been the proper way to deal with the "supposed" need for immigrant labor.
The Liberals, bowing to their Union constituency, have always been the opposition. |
That certainly would be the case. They could possibly change their tune if the program could assure that guest workers would be working only in
determined capacities such as agriculture harvesting and other seasonal jobs. The problem (not a problem for employers) comes when immigrants come in
and take over job sites and entire vocations. We don't need guest workers working in fast food. The fast food industry can pay market wages just like
In & Out Burgers does. |
Hey Packo, can you make it to join us at Mision Santa Maria? We haven't seen you since Camp Gecko New Years 2005! (That was Baja Angel's first trip
with me to Baja)...
(Hope it is okay to hijack this thread and talk about a Baja trip! LOL)
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