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ramuma53
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elinvetigat8tor
Nice to see that you are still arround.
Some times I think that what you propose, may be the best solution, but after observing how the representative for the San Diego Union acted on
Rosarito, I think that they may just substitute the city police on guarding the unloadings.
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JoeJustJoe
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I haven't heard from Ramuma on Baja real estate matters for awhile. Although I was shocked in the Turtle thread that I found most interesting. I think
Ramuma's real estate knowledge is unmatched around these parts on "Nomad" land.
I wanted to get his advice on the "Las Gaviotas" area in Baja. I know he said it's a disputed land area or something like that in a previous post in
this thread, but I don't want to go back and look for it, because this thread is too long as it is.
But I was interested in the "Las Gaviotas" area because I know this acquaintance not a friend, but I know a lot about him. I know he has this 3
bedroom two bath place in Las Gaviotas, but I don't think he even visits Mexico anymore because he is too scared of the violence as he scares easy. I
know he tries to rent this place out, but it rents for about 30 percent less than other places in the area, and he is probably not renting it too
much.
I wanted to make a offer on the place because in two years I want to semi retire and I'll have a lot more time to visit Baja if I have a place to live
down here.
But I want a run down again on the problems in the area in terms of Mexican real estate. I don't want to hear about the violence in Mexico because
that's overrated, and as long as I"m not involved in illegal activity with the drug cartels I should be alright.
I sure hope that Ramuma could come back and answer a few questions I have about the area and what price should I offer or not offer because it's too
risky to buy in the area?
[Edited on 6-4-2011 by JoeJustJoe]
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Woooosh
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JoeJustJoe
I haven't heard from Ramuma on Baja real estate matters for awhile. Although I was shocked in the Turtle thread that I found most interesting. I think
Ramuma's real estate knowledge is unmatched around these parts on "Nomad" land.
I wanted to get his advice on the "Las Gaviotas" area in Baja. I know he said it's a disputed land area or something like that in a previous post in
this thread, but I don't want to go back and look for it, because this thread is too long as it is.
But I was interested in the "Las Gaviotas" area because I know this acquaintance not a friend, but I know a lot about him. I know he has this 3
bedroom two bath place in Las Gaviotas, but I don't think he even visits Mexico anymore because he is too scared of the violence as he scares easy. I
know he tries to rent this place out, but it rents for about 30 percent less than other places in the area, and he is probably not renting it too
much.
I wanted to make a offer on the place because he two years I want to semi retire and I'll have a lot more time to visit Baja if I have a place to live
down here.
But I want a run down again on the problems in the area in terms of Mexican real estate. I don't want to hear about the violence in Mexico because
that's overrated, and as long as I"m not involved in illegal activity with the drug cartels I should be alright.
I sure hope that Ramuma could come back and answer a few questions I have about the area and what price should I offer or not offer because it's too
risky to buy in the area? |
Why not start a fresh thread and give Ramuna53 a heads-up via U2U?
[Edited on 6-3-2011 by Woooosh]
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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Lobsterman
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"The Gull must be ecstatic about having you as a potential neighbor"
Now that's funny!
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ramuma53
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Hello,
I finally was able to meet with the abogado that a real estate firm in rosarito uses to give advice to potential buyers ... I met with him for 2 hours
yesterday.
I shared with him the concerns that you have told us about. He seemed sincerely interested in addressing these and he spent a good week preparing. I
would like to share his feedback with you so you can see what the so called professionals are telling people. I will list them but that does not mean
I believe him or accept his advice.
1. First, he said the issue of "National Land" is false and that there is no such thing as "National Land Title". I referred him to the Article 27
of the constitution and he challenged me to show him where it says there must be national title. I was not able to show this, so he says it is just a
scare tactic.
2. He said there is no entry with any Registro Publico for any current lawsuit by the Mexican Company you said that is currently suing in Mexico City
to get the land back. He said that if there was such a case, the people suing would definitely register their complaint with the public registry.
3. He showed paperwork of some large transactions after the year 2000 and said that places would not invest those large sums of money if there was
any chance of there being any potential risk with the title.
4. He showed the paperwork of a legal case started by Sr Corona, of the Corona Hotel, that he lost in trying to get the land.
5. He showed some paperwork of a permit to build a water treatment plant and it shows that that there are no liens on any of the property.
6. He showed more history of the land going back to 60s and how the transactions were all fine. He showed the transactions after 1994 and it was too
complex for me to follow. I remember Machado family being mentioned, Elize family a company called PDI which then changed its name ... it was very
technical for me to understand
He then tried to explain the title history. It was very complex and technical. He mentioned a "Master Title Trust" held by Bancomer. And he
mentions that Grupo Lagza has retained a block of land inside puerta del mar for future development and that they are not going to sell this block of
land and that it is separate from the master trust. He says that people who have bought, then get title from Bancomer and are then not in the master
trust once they get their title. He mentioned that the company who owned the land was not able to pay property taxes for about 5 years and that
Bancomer stopped issuing titles because of this. Now he says that a group of owners paid Bancomer the back taxes owned and now they are issuing
titles.
This is all very technical for me. I decided to only rent for now. If you have time, I would be very interested in your responses that this attorney
made.
Thank you,
My friend
Mexican Constitution, in its article 27 in its main text say[ All the land inside of Mexico´s borders, by origin belong to National Property} that
mean, that any land lot inside of mexicos border, is National Property; there are two kinds of national property, Public National property and Private
National property; Public National Property is like the Federal Zone, they can give you a concession, but they cannot sell it to you, because it is
public property; Private National Property is land that belong to the nation but that the nation is able to sell it to create the private property and
this is the kind it of national land the strip between the Rosarito to Ensenada old highway and the Federal Zone is, National land; there is a
Presidential decree dated October 7, 1952, that state this Strip as national land, it was published in the Official newspaper dated November 13,
1952, and this you can look at in any public office in Rosarito or Tijuana.
Also, to confirm this and giving constitutional ground to the Presidential decree, Constitutional Article 27, section XVIII, state that any title
issued between the years 1876 and 1917 is subjected to review by the Presidential decrees named Declaratorias Globales de Terrenos nacionales like one
I mentioned above; please note that the Machado title was issued in 1879, exactly in the period mentioned in this Constitutional article.
There I am demonstrating that the attorney lied to you and that he does not even know what Mexico´s Constitution say.
Also I should mention that The Juan Ernesto Corona lawsuit, was declined by the courts, because he showed no direct connection to Rosendo Victorio
Victorio, a fact that Inmobiliaria Real de Mexico S.A. de C.V. does have registered at the Public Registry and is undeniable.
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wessongroup
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Next !!! ... thank you for your time...
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ramuma53
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Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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JoeJustJoe
Concerning Las Gaviotas
That place is also included in the strip mentoned a National Land and is a place that perfectly know that land is National Land because I told them
personally; I also helped them with their Federal Zone problem and using my advise, they were able to avoid paying to the Federal Zone.
They are certainly in national land and they should not be able to sell the land, but, that place have been ther for decades and the posesion is well
stablished, proved and very importan not disputed by any other party yet.
They can at any time, just ask to buy the land from the National land office and correct the problem and nobody will ever even know, but they have not
done it to this day; why? it is amistery to me that people invest heavily and not check the land legality and when they know a problem exist, they do
not correct it and just wait for the problems.
Let me tell you what kind of problems:
Let say that you get greedy and decide to buy the whole Las gaviotas place, through a Mexican national you ask to buy it to the national Land ofcie in
Mexico city; they will look and find no other people asking for it and certainly they will sell it to you and then you will show up as the legal owner
and that will be a legal true; the ones who claim to own it today, will cry to heaven, but you will certainly have the legal reason and after a legal
battle like the Punta Banda one, you will be exactly at that point, getting the land from everybody.
That is the kind of problems this people are open today, just waiting for the wise guy to show up with the legal title and they they will try to
correct the problem, but too late.
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ramuma53
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Woooosh
Thank you, but it is not necessary, since I was seeing no interest in the thread, I was not giving more, but, now that I see there is an interest and
actually making a difference to some people who are avoiding being robbed by the illegal developers, I will continue.
This people when they answer the questions raised here, just go deeper and expose themselves as the fraud they are.
For me it is easy, because I have the law on my hand and I can show it to them.
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Paladin
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Ramuma
First....thank you very much for your time and expertise in helping us Gringos.
Second....please do not go away
Lastly a question.
My understanding that town/village "maps" subdivisions were done before the ejidos came into existence and therefore do not carry any of those (ejido)
potentional problems.
Using San Bruno as an example; I'm assuming title problems are easier to find by just having good title research done in
in the "County Court House" in Santa Roseilia???
Sorry for my use of Gringo terms and spelling.
Thanks again for your time and knowledge.
Terry....Fresno CA...
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bajatravelergeorge
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Ramuma,
You stated in an earlier post that most colonial titles in Baja had been voided. I can't find any other reference to that in english on the web. Can
you go into a little more detail about how and when they were voided and where I can find the documentation to back this up.
Thanks in advance for your help.
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ramuma53
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Paladin
Mulege area is plagued with Ejido problems; just ask Mr. Johnson at Serenidad Hotel and you will find a horror story; do not buy on anything that has
as precedent an ejido, it is just too complicated for an American and you will be too open for fraud; Mexican law handle Ejidatarios as children not
mentally fit and the reality is that most of them are very healthy and just take the opportunity that the Mexican law give them to take a big
advantage of you.
To complicate that, Baja is a Real Estate horror zone and please take note that this does not apply to every ejido in Mexico, Baja Ejidos are a
special legal horror case.
All, but absolutely all ejidos in Baja, were created in the 1940s, during President Lazaro Card##as time in officer and he created so many ejidos and
Baja was then so far away, that they simply did not have the technical staff to do all of them in a legal way and Baja Ejidos were the farthest.
But they had a presidential order and they had to comply with it, General Card##as was not the kind of guy, you may tell him, that you had too much
work to accomplish all his goals, so the technical staff, just started to do them in bunches’ without any but any legal formality or respect for the
neighbors; an engineer came to Baja, for an afternoon and executed 10 ejidos without notifying anybody but the ejido people and executed them all
together, right there at the airport or while drinking a beer.
Let me explain to you, that to execute an ejido, you had to draw an exact topographical map, locate it through astronomical observations, walk each of
its sides accompanied by the neighbor, who you by law, had to notify in advance, so he was able to be there, with his own engineer to be sure his
limits were respected, make them sign the official paper and then, when every party agreed with the measurements, the Ejido was formally executed; of
course it is completely impossible for an engineer to execute formally 10 ejidos in an afternoon; those technical legal works may take months each, so
they simply invented the VIRTUAL EXECUTION and just did them in bunches, just hoping that in the near future, with more time on their hands, they
would be able to return and do it the lawful way; well, 70 years have gone by and they are still unable to do the legal work and most ejidos in Baja
today, are based on virtual executions and that mean, that they have no formal technical works and they did not follow legal procedure.
Legal precedents, named in Mexico Jurisprudencia, are Supreme Court ruled and executed cases, that are already legal precedents, and those precedents
say that an Ejido Virtual execution is NO EXECUTION at all, because they did not respected the neighbor´s rights consagrated on the 14 and 16
Constitutional articles, when they didn´t allow the neighbors to be notified and agree with the measurements.
That mean, that almost no ejido in Baja is legal and in fact has no land, because the government never gave them the land in a formal lawful way; the
ejido exist, but they have no land at all.
When the Ejido La Purisima sued me, I just proved that they have a Virtual execution and in a legal consequence, they have no land and their land
simply cannot be over any other land, because their land does not exist; they simply dropped the case and avoided suing me again.
I am sorry, but Baja need a lot of legal and technical work to be able to provide trouble free titles and that is why I advise Americans to buy only
from titles issued by Terrenos Nacionales, not issued between 1876 and 1917 and the 1963 to 1967 periods.
In the mean while, if you do not find a national Title at the end of the title´s legal chain, simply walk away and do not trust the attorneys and
sellers who tell you to go ahead and buy problems.
[Edited on 6-18-2011 by ramuma53]
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ramuma53
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bajatravelergeorge
Colonial titles, were a kind of concession, not really a private property title, like a kibut in Israel.
Why, because they were issued free of any cost.
Mexican Constitution forbid to give away land to create private property, it has to be sold at market prices.
So Colonial titles were created where people was not interested in buying because it was then too far from the civilization; they were created to
colonize land too far away; and because of that, they created the Colonial Law; you can find it in the ´Ley Federal de Reforma Agraria´ issued in
1950; the new 1992 Agrarian law, no longer consider Colonial land and the Colonial law no longer is included in it.
They created a lot of colonies in Baja, mostly Ensenada to San Quintin Area and La Paz and Los Cabos were covered by Colonial titles.
Since they created colonies to colonize the land, the law, obligate the colonial to live and work, the received for free land; but, to acomplish its
goals, the law obligated them to permanently live there and report land exploitation at least every year; you were unable even to change the kind of
plant you were growing, you had to ask permission to make any change and if you failed to do it or report for 3 years, the rights that the title gave
you, simply disappeared.
Most of Baja´s colonies just disappeared because they were abandoned and the land never were exploited and the colonials of course never reported the
exploitation; but many wise guys, simply registered the titles as private property at the local public registry, were of course the registrars were to
ignorant to note any difference with normal titles and that was exacerbated by the fact that the Colonial titles say on them PROPERTY TITLE and then
is small print they say, under the Colonial Law were all the conditions to exist were expressed.
That fact actually mean that Colonial titles are never a solid private property right, it was a conditional right, that existed only, while you
fulfilled all the conditions specified in the Colonial Law and actually disappeared as soon as you stopped fulfilling the conditions.
The land use right disappeared, but the anotation on the Public registry did not because it should hve not be there from the start or appear with the
warning anotation, but nobody cared to annotate that it was only a conditional right or that it existed only as long as the conditions were
fulfilled.
To sell one of those rights, it was not the same as with a private property title, that you just went to the public notary and state that you wanted
to sell and the other party to buy; with Colonial Titles, the Colonial law order a special procedure. You had to bring the buyer with you to the
Agrarian Department and make the contract there with the SRa as part of the contract, after demostrating that you always fullfiled the conditions
specified in the Colonial law; then your title was voided and a new Colonial title was issued to the buyer and that mean, that you cannot simply go to
the public notary to sell land coming from a Colonial title and if you do it, the act was nil under the law and the public notary must know that.
But of course the public notaries and public registrars in Baja didn’t do it that way, they simply started to create a title chain, where people just
sold and bought land based on Colonial titles, but tiles that were voided long ago; after all, nobody cared about Baja then.
Now, tell me, can you legally buy land that at the bottom of the title chain is grounded on a Colonial title that no longer exist or has any legal
effect, what right are you buying???? Nothing, zilch, zero, nix, but you can find that kind of property transactions all over Baja and the funny part
is, that some of them have American title insurance.
Here a fact that confuses people, is a difference in Mexican and American law and as a matter of fact, with all countries under England based law; it
is a Napoleonic remembrance; in Mexico the Public Registry IS NOT an irrefutable proof of land ownership by itself, while in USA, Australia and
England, IT IS a land ownership legal irrefutable proof.
In Mexico, it is only a partial legal proof that need and absolutely need, other partial legal proofs to constitute an irrefutable legal proof;
mostly it has to be supplemented with the Agrarian Public Registry, demonstrating that your land is no part of an Ejido, or the National property
Registry that prove that your land is not National property; but of course, it is an obligation for a Public registrar and a public notary to know
that and check on those, before allowing a sale, but in Baja, they just conveniently forget about those formalities.
It is the old fact, that in Mexico you have to demonstrate that you are innocent and considered guilty until you prove your innocence. In this case
you have to demostrate that your land does not belong to some ejido or the Nation before it is acepted that it is legally yours.
[Edited on 6-18-2011 by ramuma53]
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Paladin
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It seems that the colonials (non ejideos) that make up the little villages are as somewhat unsafe to buy but not as much as ejideos.
I'm just trying to get a "translation" that I understand.
I hear all the time about 2000 (plus/minus) meter lots in San Bruno, Mulege, Asuncion and San Lucas being bought and sold with no real problems.
As far as Johnsons problem in Mulege I thought his property south of the river was eijdo land whereas the town lots north of the river in Mulege
proper were different????
Please help clear up a dense Irish head....thanks again.
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Cypress
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Paladin, Does a can of worms have any meaning to you?
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ramuma53
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Paladin
Colonial titles, even if bought and sold as if nothing is happening, is a nonexistent right to the land and are a lot worse than ejido transactions,
because you are buying a nonexistent right to the land.
Ejido land on the other hand, is extremely difficult and dangerous, but it is a right to some land, it is a real right that can materialize after some
legal work. It is difficult because it needs some very complex legal works that expose you to possible fraud, when they simply change their mind after
receiving your money, but this does not happen every time, there are some honest people out there.
All Ejidos around Mulege have the problem, that the SRA never corrected the Virtual Execution capital problem and now it is extremely expensive to
complete those technical legal works, I have notice that they would have to pay up to USD$500,000.00 to do it and take up to 1 year to complete while
it may only be a year or it may take 10 years, but I think that they will find 1000s of problems with private property neighbors, not agreeing with
their technical legal works and every problem would have to be settled before the technical work ends and the Ejido is formally executed.
It is so difficult, that they may go for other options instead of going that way; just selling their rights as is and let the buyer solve the problems
and that is what they are actually doing, but if you buy in to that can of worms, be prepared to spend years in Agrarian court but you will and with a
real right to some land if you do not have a conflict with a private property title and that of course if you are a Mexican national by birth.
Based on Colonial rights are impossible,
Based on Ejido rights are difficult.
Based on recently issued National land private property titles are safe.
Based on historical National land private property titles issued on the period 1876 to 1917 are correctable, but dangerous because they are reviewable
and may be nil, if not issued according to every article on the 1863 national land law (find it in 5 siglos de legislacion Agraria, Manuel Favila)
specially not over 2500 Has.
Based on National land private property titles issued on the period 1963 to 1967 are dangerous because those may be falsified (signed by Adolfo Lopez
Mateos President) those were signed by a machine and a lot were falsified, so many that those titles were declared nil, also during that era, the law
forbid the national Land sale to private citizens.
BASED ON NATIONAL LAND PRIVATE PROPERTY TITLES ISSUED ON THE PERIOD 1918 TO 1962 AND FROM 1968 TO DATE ARE COMPLETELY SAFE AND I HAVE NEVER SEEN ONE
OF THOSE LOSE A LEGAL BATTLE, INCLUDING THE PUNTA BANDA FIASCO WAS WON BY ONE OF THOSE.
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ramuma53
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cypress
A can of worms is an ugly place to swim, but if you are a wise guy, you can use it to get a ton of fish.
Problems are out there, we cannot deny it and we should not hide it, like in Rosarito are trying unsuccessfully to do, but if you have the right tools
and information, you can come on top of the problems and get a property that you will not be able to get any other place in the world.
Problems are there to be solved not to run from them, but if you do not have the right information, other people may take advantage of you or you may
simply be fortunate and never have any problem.
What I do not condone, is that people with title chain problems, just sell the land without correcting the problem and in fact committing a fraud to
the buyer and that crime is even worst when people take advantage from American tourist that think the law is like in their country.
That is like the dog that bites the hand that gives him food.
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ramuma53
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bajatravelergeorge
On the web you will find nothing about that, in fact, you will find it difficult to find an attorney in Mexico that know about this knowledge area and
in Baja, it is almost impossible; to solve the legal problems I had, I had to became an attorney at Mexican law and spend years investigating and then
years in court.
To disentangle the Rosarito´s problem, I spent a lot of years and money; when I started, the Machado title was upheld as the true thing, Ejido
Mazatlan everybody thought was a legal ejido.
As an example: Some old people knew that ´Compañia Explotadora de la Baja California´ bought the Machado title rights, but that was it.
I investigated and found the place where that Mexican company was created, in Mexicali B.C. and found that the partners were not Mexicans, that the
social capital was 99.8% owned by a Canadian born named Hugh Francis Collins, that the 0.2% was owned by 2 Mexicans but one was living in San Diego
California.
I also found the 1863 National land law on a book that is only sold in Mexico City and there only outside the SRA and only from time to time; the 1894
National Land law I found in a very old book that I found in a very old library in Mexico City.
The fact that Joaquin Machado Valdes was born in San Diego and died as an American citizen by birth and is buried in California as an American,
California resident, took me years to learn.
Those facts, that were buried in history and mostly forgotten, had a legal consequence, that the Joaquin Machado Valdez, that cover Rosarito Beach
violated the 1863 law in several articles and was in consequence nil.
When I started, nobody even at the SRA knew there was a presidential decree, issued in 1952 that declared national Land the strip between Rosarito
beach and Punta Banda in Ensenada, between the old highway and the Federal zone.
Those legal historical facts were investigated and learned by me at my cost, were exposed on my newspaper ABC and now are the base to correct the land
legality in Rosarito Beach, but after years demonstrating that those facts were true and sustainable in court, the Estate government choose to hide
them to avoid a panic and then Punta Banda exploded.
But I found out, that the people being harmed but the lack of information was not the Mexican guy, the real harm was being done to the American buyer
and nobody, including me, was paying much attention to inform the American buyer.
The only one, brave enough to disseminate the information and to inform the American buyer about the problem, was Nacy Conrroy from the Gringo Gazette
and you know her sad story on the hands of Hugo Torres Chavert; even the San Diego Union reporter was bought by the Ejido Mazatlan.
To this day, this is the only place, where you will find this information and if any one of you needs where to find in the public record, legal proof
for any fact I give here, I will direct you to it or I will provide it for you.
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Phil S
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ramuma53
Your a treasure chest of knowledge, and experience. You should be teaching classes to interested buyers for reasonable rates, where you live.
do you practice 'other' law beside 'land use'?????
I hope that you are having a great Fathers Day today, and with your family.
God Bless!!
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baja1943
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ramuma53
Just curious, You come across as a philanthropic angel who devotes his life to advising americanos "at your own expense" on mexican land issues. Just
wondering where you derived the wealth in order to make this your life cause. In other words do you have a vested interest in all this?
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MitchMan
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ramuma53
The fideicomiso is a glorified lease contract, collateralized by the bank, the bank serves as the legal rights depository for the life of the
fideicomiso. |
Who is the lessor?
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