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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Remember to try and stash some firewood...
Elbeau, see you when you do get out west!
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TMW
Select Nomad
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Location: Bakersfield, CA
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Walking all the way to the Gulf is interesting. If you stay in the arroyo it's what 30+ miles. Some of it is tough miles over rocks etc. I've been
about a mile past the corral to the first horse shoe turn and it was reall steep and rocky. However, I volunteer for your support crew. I can send you
off and meet you on the other side. I'd even walk some of it.
I have a Spot so anyone who wants me to send an email ( it just says we are OK) back home while we are down there U2U me your email addy. Of course if
there is an emergency it will send an emergency response team to us too.
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elbeau
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Registered: 3-2-2011
Location: Austin, TX
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
Walking all the way to the Gulf is interesting. If you stay in the arroyo it's what 30+ miles. Some of it is tough miles over rocks etc. I've been
about a mile past the corral to the first horse shoe turn and it was reall steep and rocky. However, I volunteer for your support crew. I can send you
off and meet you on the other side. I'd even walk some of it. |
Sounds great TW. There are two ways to do the trip. One is to have someone drop us off on one side then pick us up on the other like you said. I
was hoping someone would volunteer to help with that, but if not then there is a point on the Olividada Mine road where it crosses the El Tule trail
(according to the 1905 map). We could also set up base camp there and then travel the trail from that point to the gulf and back, then do the other
part of the trail to El Marmol and back. The advantage of the second way is that if we get to a point where we don't think it's worth going further,
then the trip back is much easier. The disadvantage is that it's twice as much hiking.
Since you're going to go to the X-shaped feature and try to fix the mine road, I'll try to map out where the trail crosses the road and maybe you can
pick it out a little while you're there. The place where it crosses the mine road is very close to what appears to me to be one of the hardest parts
of the trail through a narrow canyon. It'd be nice to get a photo or two of what to expect in that area before the fall trip.
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mtgoat666
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Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by elbeau
No matter what your trip does or doesn't turn up, like I've said before, I'm going to make it down there myself just for the fun of it if nothing
else. I'm thinking of planing a visit this fall and doing an "El Tule Trail" backpacking trip...hopefully making it all the way from El Volcan to the
gulf coast. |
elbow:
you would find backpacking in that area kind of arduous and dull.
you seem to like antiquities - why don't you do your adventuring in the Sierra de San Francisco? the rock art is great (world class), and the
mountains are very scenic.
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elbeau
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by elbeau
No matter what your trip does or doesn't turn up, like I've said before, I'm going to make it down there myself just for the fun of it if nothing
else. I'm thinking of planing a visit this fall and doing an "El Tule Trail" backpacking trip...hopefully making it all the way from El Volcan to the
gulf coast. |
elbow:
you would find backpacking in that area kind of arduous and dull.
you seem to like antiquities - why don't you do your adventuring in the Sierra de San Francisco? the rock art is great (world class), and the
mountains are very scenic. |
Arduous? Probably so...but I doubt that it'll be boring. I'll definitely check out some other places on the trip, and I appreciate the suggestion,
but I think recreating a 100-year-old trail in an area where there's currently no known similar route will be fun itself.
I don't want to hijack this thread with talk of a different trip. After we hear how this week's trip goes I'll start an El Tule trip thread for this
fall.
[Edited on 4-26-2011 by elbeau]
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David K
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The 1905 map is hand drawn and not made from surveying or saterllites, so that trail actually follows El Tule Wash (El Volcan) to the gulf is indeed
in that arroyo and not somewhere else towards Olvidada. It is real rough and hilly country... water is a premium and the least amount of climbing up
and down those cactus covered mountains, the better. It would surprise me if they ever left the arroyo bed... only to get around a waterfall, perhaps.
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elbeau
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
The 1905 map is hand drawn and not made from surveying or saterllites, so that trail actually follows El Tule Wash (El Volcan) to the gulf is indeed
in that arroyo and not somewhere else towards Olvidada. It is real rough and hilly country... water is a premium and the least amount of climbing up
and down those cactus covered mountains, the better. It would surprise me if they ever left the arroyo bed... only to get around a waterfall, perhaps.
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Unless you have other maps showing the trail, I think the 1905 map shows that the El Tule trail very rarely actually follows the arroyo...possibly for
the same reasons that nomads have had difficulty traversing it. I'm not at home now with my graphics programs, but if you look back in this thread a
ways you'll see a GE overlay that I did with the 1905 map. The map lines up very well with well-known features like El Marmol where the trail starts,
"Landing" where the trail ends, the island chain, and I believe a few other places. The map may look very rough and hand-drawn, but it's angles and
distances appear to be very well documented. Once lined up with the known features, the trail winds in a surprising way through the hills and
valleys.
I "think" that what the author is trying to convey with the solid lines is what he saw when he was walking the trail. I haven't done a detailed study
of it, but I remember seeing that the solid lines seemed to line up with the hillsides that GE shows the trail walking past. Like I said, I need to
look into that claim a little more because I'm not sure of it yet, but he drew dotted lines for a reason (the trail itself, which is represented by
two parallel dotted lines while the trail was good to El Marmol and then mostly single dotted lines afterwards) and solid lines for a reason (I think
they mean hillsides next to the trail). I'll definitely spend some time on this subject tonight so that I can try to give TW some good information
for his visit.
I know there are other maps showing "El Tule", but correct me if I'm wrong, but the other maps don't actually show the trail...right?
[Edited on 4-26-2011 by elbeau]
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David K
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You may be right on Beau...
It just seems to me he was drawing the arroyo (Volcan/ Tule) and it is nowhere near 'Santa Isabel' true location on the arroyo. But the arroyo he drew
and the trail over it has to be El Volcan, as none other arroyo does what was needed... provide a route between Miramar and El Marmol.
I just hear you saying something about 'finding' that trail on the way to La Olvidada... and the terrain as seen from space doesn't allow for it to be
out that way... IMO.
TW, when you drive to Olvidada on Thursday or Friday... look for an old trail heading off to the left of the road!
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elbeau
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
You may be right on Beau...
It just seems to me he was drawing the arroyo (Volcan/ Tule) and it is nowhere near 'Santa Isabel' true location on the arroyo. But the arroyo he drew
and the trail over it has to be El Volcan, as none other arroyo does what was needed... provide a route between Miramar and El Marmol.
I just hear you saying something about 'finding' that trail on the way to La Olvidada... and the terrain as seen from space doesn't allow for it to be
out that way... IMO.
TW, when you drive to Olvidada on Thursday or Friday... look for an old trail heading off to the left of the road! |
Don't worry, I don't mean "finding" as in rediscovering the actual precise old burro trail...I just mean trying to follow the old map and see where it
takes us. From what other nomads have written, there is currently no documented way through this area to the coast.
I'm also not saying that the El Tule trail goes past my "mission site", in fact, when I originally posted that overlaid map I was trying to show that
the "mission site" may not have been found because the old trail --did not-- go near it.
Anyways, I stared at the solid lines on that map some more and got no closer to understanding them...but I did separate out the trail from the other
markings and make a KML file to try to understand it better. The yellow trail is the current road to the Olividada mine as best as I can tell. The
red dots represent the "El Tule" trail according to the 1905 map. The Blue lines and smudges are the other markings that I just don't understand.
Here's the KML File. It has a lot of other features in the file that are not visible unless you click on them, including the points to line up the map and
the original map overlay, etc.
Here's a snapshot:
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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Baja offers us plenty of exploration possibilities! That prospectors over 100 years ago were all over the area looking for gold and padres over 200
years ago were looking for souls (and perhaps gold), makes it so much more interesting!
We leave in less than 48 hours!
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TMW
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Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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I'm packed and ready. Plenty of grits and fire wood. Should leave Hemit at 8 am tomorrow.
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3288
Registered: 1-11-2007
Location: Buena Vista BCS
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Mood: Tranquilo
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My stuff is still scattered everywhere but I'm confident that I will have everything ready to go by tomorrow morning....or so.....dt
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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bajalou
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4459
Registered: 3-11-2004
Location: South of the broder
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Should get packing done this afternoon - heading south in the AM.
No Bad Days
\"Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference\"
\"The trouble with doing nothing is - how do I know when I\'m done?\"
Nomad Baja Interactive map
And in the San Felipe area - check out Valle Chico area |
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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Good luck boys (and girls?).
I seriously hope you find something cool there. One never knows.
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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TMW
Select Nomad
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Mcfez you'll have to join us in the fall for the walk down El Volcan, Nomads Rule.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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I have some work to do tomorrow, but all the camping gear is ready to go... Looking forward to El Vergel's arrival tomorrow PM and for Friday's
start... and then get BajaCat. See you down there Tom and Lou (and David, XRPhlang, etc...)
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BAJACAT
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 2902
Registered: 11-21-2005
Location: NATIONAL CITY, CA
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Im ready, gear is all pull apart from storage..will pack tomorrow afternoon...
DK are we taking the BLV 2000..to Popotla
BAJA IS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BE, FUN,DANGEROUS,INCREDIBLE, REMOTE, EXOTIC..JUST GO AND HAVE FUN.....
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64850
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BAJACAT
Im ready, gear is all pull apart from storage..will pack tomorrow afternoon...
DK are we taking the BLV 2000..to Popotla |
Doesn't matter to me... I will leave that up to El Vergel... we miss two toll gates that way, or if we stay on the free road all the way to Ensenada,
no tolls!
Can you Dodge make it to El Rosario on one tank of gas (225 miles from border)? Will you want to top off at Cantamar (south of the border area higher
price zone) or will your tank be topped in Chula Vista?
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
Mcfez you'll have to join us in the fall for the walk down El Volcan, Nomads Rule. |
Book me! I will be there indeed.
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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dtbushpilot
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3288
Registered: 1-11-2007
Location: Buena Vista BCS
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Mood: Tranquilo
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I'm outa here.....see you at the lost mission.....dt
"Life is tough".....It's even tougher if you're stupid.....
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