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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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I just got back from a 3 week Baja trip and wrote a couple of posts (which JESSE replied to above) that I subsequently deleted after reading the first
half of this thread because my points had been already discussed. One point that I didn't see discussed follows.
Perhaps a year ago I saw on a local San Diego newscast a city official saying he didn't want San Diego police enforcing federal immigration laws
because by doing so they would lose the trust of the Mexican population, and that would be detrimental to the performance of their job.
For example, let's say that there is a serial rapist or child molester terrorizing a Mexican neighborhood. If the people were afraid of getting
deported they wouldn't come forward to report the crimes or present evidence/information they may have. If, on the other hand, they knew that San
Diego cops would not ask about citizenship, they would be more likely to participate in the apprehension of criminal and have a generally better
relationship with the cops on the beat.
I thought it was a good point.
Think about it. The nice hardworking Mexican family down the street. Dad has been here illegally for 10 years working construction jobs, the rest of
the family is legal. Are they now targets for criminals? If they call the police Dad will be arrested/deported. Probably best to not report the child
molestation.
[Edited on 5-3-2010 by k-rico]
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4332
Registered: 11-19-2002
Location: Yes
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| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Wait until all citizens have to start carrying a National ID card, as Obama would like to have happen |
I see you agree with the ACLU. Good for you. Have you sent in your membership fees?
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
Wait until all citizens have to start carrying a National ID card, as Obama would like to have happen |
He won't be happy until we all address each other as "comrade"! |
From Beck's lips to your ears?
DK, do you also believe your president is not an American citizen?
I doubt I can ever take anything you say about politics seriuosly again.
Viva Baja!
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
Bottom line is that our lazy, over-privileged youth is what has become a burden...Not immigrants. Legal or otherwise.
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I honestly don't know if that is widely true or not. The kids I am around are pretty industrious.
But the topic brought up an observation though that some may not be aware of.
In the 1970's in southern california if you didn't go to college there were well paying jobs available in construction. I knew friends that were
carpenters that worked in housing tracts. In driving through these tracts you would see the dog in the pickup and a boom box playing music. Anyone
familar will know what I'm talking about.
About 3 years ago when housing was booming here I had occassion to visit a few tracts again. No more surfer carpenters, no dogs, (and now for safety
reasons no more boom boxes). The labor force was overwhelmingly mexican.
Would american kids take those jobs, I can't say.
Ken
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
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Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
About 3 years ago when housing was booming here I had occassion to visit a few tracts again. No more surfer carpenters, no dogs, (and now for safety
reasons no more boom boxes). The labor force was overwhelmingly mexican.
Would american kids take those jobs, I can't say. |
I have been working in the construction industry for 40 years now.
What really happened is that contractors reduced the pay scale years ago in order to build cheaper houses since labor was about 50% of the
construction cost. American youth said I'm not going to work for "only" $25 per hour! Mexicans said. "we will."
That's the American system, Capitalism at its best and worst, Supply and Demand. It is what it is.
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
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I would agree that Mexicans will work for a lower wage than the local work force. That is precisely the point that many are making isn't it? With
regards to the component costs of housing, the builders profit in good times is a larger share than the labor cost. Builders will do whatever is
necessary to reduce the costs of construction. Supply and demand will dictate what the labor costs are. More people available to work the lower the
labor cost. (From what I understand framing and drywall is done piece meal, how that relates to an hourly cost I don't know). I too have been in the
construction industry for 40 years, (heavy civil not housing).
The fact is that there is a whole class of americans filling $10-$15hr jobs. Auto parts stores, home improvement retail, mechanics, etc. There are
many american kids that would love to work for $25/hr. At this time all ages and skill levels of workers would be tempted by a $25hr job. But that
is another topic.
Ken
[Edited on 5-3-2010 by tripledigitken]
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64743
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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I would love a $25/ hr. job and so would any of our kids... Where do people get these numbers at? San Diego is an expensive place to live, yet the pay
here is the same or less than other places... A 2 b/r apartment is about $1000 or more, a modest 3 b/r house rents for $2,000 or more... and the pay
for skilled labor is less than $20/ hr.
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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"I doubt I can ever take anything you say about politics seriuosly again."
DK - i think Matt only mentioned not taking you seriously over political issues - that doesn't mean he isn't a nomad friend.
let it blow off your back - i take NOTHING seriously here - its pure fun and entertainment.
i cannot believe this thread lasted so long as it is nada to do with baja.
stand by all - Sheriff Jose the notorious is about to announce on the governorship.... wow!!!!!!! 76 and he still wants to work.
who's watching the America the Story of US show on Hist ch?
those were great men!! just like Sheriff jose!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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durrelllrobert
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7393
Registered: 11-22-2007
Location: Punta Banda BC
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Mood: thriving in Baja
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| Quote: | DK, do you also believe your president is not an American citizen?
Viva Baja! |
maybe a Mexican citizen
Bob Durrell
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18105
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Online
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
It is so sad when people are not free to speak their ideas and interact without the slams and negative comments.
It is also so sad that people put politics ahead of friendships... Matt, I don't care if you like Obama or not, he won and that's it. For how many
years did we read the hate Bush comments here, yet I wouldn't let that get in the way of a good Baja time by saying things like you did above, to you
or anyone who is a Democrat? I have had Democrat friends and girlfriends and I can keep politics seperate from friendships.
Under Bush we were united as a people to save America... His popularity was so great, it was only a matter of time before the Democrats had to change
that, lest they never get in charge again. It was (afterall) the lack of leadership under Clinton that allowed the terrorists to become so brazen. So,
even though Congress was in the Democrats hands the last 2 years of the Bush presidency, and congress controls the budget, Bush got the blame for the
bad economy (which was booming before the change in congress).
So now, the Democrats have it all... and we have never been more DIVIDED as a people... Lies, lies, lies and government takeovers... It is all so
wrong and so un-American.
Come on Nomads, we all have our own views... but that shouldn't take away of our mutual love for Baja. This is supposed to be a fun place or a
learning place... Vent, say your views, but do it without attacking others... attack the subject. |
Saint David,
I am glad you have come here to martyr yourself in the cause of fighting back against the EVIL LIBERALS that so ruthlessly trample on your right to
free speech and are DESTROYING America. Your saintly deeds will be rewarded with 40 virgins in heaven. You will like heaven, they only allow in
LEGAL immigrants
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Mexicorn
Senior Nomad
Posts: 772
Registered: 9-15-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
It is so sad when people are not free to speak their ideas and interact without the slams and negative comments.
It is also so sad that people put politics ahead of friendships... Matt, I don't care if you like Obama or not, he won and that's it. For how many
years did we read the hate Bush comments here, yet I wouldn't let that get in the way of a good Baja time by saying things like you did above, to you
or anyone who is a Democrat? I have had Democrat friends and girlfriends and I can keep politics seperate from friendships.
Under Bush we were united as a people to save America... His popularity was so great, it was only a matter of time before the Democrats had to change
that, lest they never get in charge again. It was (afterall) the lack of leadership under Clinton that allowed the terrorists to become so brazen. So,
even though Congress was in the Democrats hands the last 2 years of the Bush presidency, and congress controls the budget, Bush got the blame for the
bad economy (which was booming before the change in congress).
So now, the Democrats have it all... and we have never been more DIVIDED as a people... Lies, lies, lies and government takeovers... It is all so
wrong and so un-American.
Come on Nomads, we all have our own views... but that shouldn't take away of our mutual love for Baja. This is supposed to be a fun place or a
learning place... Vent, say your views, but do it without attacking others... attack the subject. |
Saint David,
I am glad you have come here to martyr yourself in the cause of fighting back against the EVIL LIBERALS that so ruthlessly trample on your right to
free speech and are DESTROYING America. Your saintly deeds will be rewarded with 40 virgins in heaven. You will like heaven, they only allow in
LEGAL immigrants |
WAY TO GO GOAT !!!!
That had me rolling on the ground in laughter!!!
Saint David!!!LOL!!!
Hey just a quick second thought Comrads!
Maybe through our Joint efforts we could lobby the Arizona Minute Men into erecting a Statue of Dave and the captain and put it right on the border
near Yuma. Both full size in bronze right arm extended pointing thier index fingers in a southern direction. Yea that's the ticket... and maybe a
small plaque at the base that says Mexicans go home!!
[Edited on 5-3-2010 by Mexicorn]
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
Member Is Offline
Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Some Good News
Santa Cruz Immigrant Rally turns to Riot. Great Video.
Looking forward to more.
Keeping the pot Stirred.
Until November.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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There's really no point in discussing current issues with '60's era liberals. They're still fighting battles won, with a lot of help from current
conservatives, 50 years ago. The song "Glory Days" comes to mind. Their idea of a debate consists of hurling insults. Best to keep it on the light
side and not venture past local weather conditions. It'll keep 'em
content and you won't, out of courtesy, be subjected to nonsense.
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
Member Is Offline
Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oxxo
| Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
About 3 years ago when housing was booming here I had occasion to visit a few tracts again. No more surfer carpenters, no dogs, (and now for safety
reasons no more boom boxes). The labor force was overwhelmingly mexican.
Would american kids take those jobs, I can't say. |
I have been working in the construction industry for 40 years now.
What really happened is that contractors reduced the pay scale years ago in order to build cheaper houses since labor was about 50% of the
construction cost. American youth said I'm not going to work for "only" $25 per hour! Mexicans said. "we will."
That's the American system, Capitalism at its best and worst, Supply and Demand. It is what it is. |
That $25/hr came through hard fought UNION efforts over many, many, years.. as did many other "benefits'" enjoyed by workers today, legal and
illegal..
Some folks paid some heavy dues.. to get the working conditions up... not blaming illegals.. everyone wants to work, and most Business take advantage
of the working stiff .. that is the way it is.. always has, and always will..
Be they be poor Irish, German, Chinese or Mexican .... it is how the game is played... the Golden Rule.. He who has the gold rules...
The working man.. it's a tough row to hoe...
[Edited on 5-3-2010 by wessongroup]
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4332
Registered: 11-19-2002
Location: Yes
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DK, I apologize for making the assumption that you believe that Obama is not an American citizen. That was wrong for me to do that.
Unfortunately politics has become a blood sport for some on the fringes in this country and for me something I no longer care to discuss with most
people, kind of like religion and whatever else goes on in the privacy of one's own home. It's personal.
The comment you made about Obama wanting us all to call each other "comrades" was probably made in jest, no? A baseless kneejerk comment like that
does make it hard to objectively absorb whatever else is said and that is why I responded the way I did.
There are many things said here that I don't agree with and many opinions on some subjects I refuse to take seriously. As Mike said it's just the
internet, after all.
The immigration situation is one of many in this country that is very complicated and made more so by the total lack of action by anyone in Washington
for decades. Like many other problems we face it will not be an easy fix. I think the Arizona law is overreaching and will be watered down or thrown
out completely. If it helps jump start discussion about serious immigration reform in DC that would be a good thing.
Obama is doing what he can with the pile of crap he stepped in to on January 20th. He is upsetting a lot of folks on the far left and the far right in
the process but.......... he is governing from the middle as much as possible which is what I predicted and hoped for all along (you can look it up).
John McCain lost any hope of holding onto my support when he sold out and made the single worst decision in any election ever, but that is another
subject and I don't want to highjack this very informative thread which will hopefully be heading for the off topic black hole soon.
Tecate is much more drinkable then Pacifco ever was and I can prove it!
Don't sweat the small stuff.
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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Mexicorn
Senior Nomad
Posts: 772
Registered: 9-15-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | | Quote: | Originally posted by durrelllrobert
DK, do you also believe your president is not an American citizen?
Viva Baja! |
maybe a Mexican citizen
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In all honesty It does not get more Racist than this!
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Mexicon, How's the weather?
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Mexicorn
Senior Nomad
Posts: 772
Registered: 9-15-2009
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Your right Weathers great going outside to listen to the birds sing I'm done with this-
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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Mexicon, I'll drink to that. Good luck and good will.
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monoloco
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6667
Registered: 7-13-2009
Location: Pescadero BCS
Member Is Offline
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I don't know why this has to be a liberal vs. conservative issue. I don't believe anyone thinks that illegal immigration is a good thing. The question
is should we deal with it in scattered and reactionary ways or do we try to come up with logical and effective reform that works for businesses that
need imported labor and is fair and streamlined for foreign workers. It seems like both political parties and certain media outlets would rather this
be a polarizing issue to gain political advantage or to gain market share. This is something that could have been dealt with long ago if it hadn't
been more expedient to use the issue as a political football.
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