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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
the best tech in this case would be to have flyers everywhere...especially in the places he is known to frequent.... which it appears they are
definitely not.
I suggest either the family send someone down to do that or have someone already in baja do the job which includes talking to locals in every place
they ask to put up flyers. You really have to personally put them up not just leave them with someone. |
I second Shari's assessment.
There has been no valid or verified information since September 3rd. The longer one waits, the less clues or information are available.
There needs to be a concentrated and coordinated effort to work the area between the border and at least Loreto.
It is time for professional help. The family needs to hire someone who has experience, who lives here, who has the connections and who knows what to
do and how to do it.
If anyone of my family or friends went missing in Mexico, my first call would be to Lizard Lips (Dan) and I would hire him immediately.......the
Patton family should do likewise.
[Edited on 10-19-2013 by bajaguy]
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BajaDixon
Junior Nomad
Posts: 71
Registered: 10-30-2011
Location: NORTHERN BAJA
Member Is Offline
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I agree that it would help to have a coordinated effort to canvas the peninsula. There have been a lot of people helping out but without someone
overseeing the efforts the right hand doesn't know what the left hand is doing. I think that is why there are so many areas where there are not
flyers.
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captkw
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3850
Registered: 10-19-2010
Location: el charro b.c.s.
Member Is Offline
Mood: new dog/missing the old 1
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What we in SAR....DO !!
And start looking backwords/forwards from the last Anything...
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
Member Is Offline
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Absolutely good advice here
| Quote: | Originally posted by bajaguy
It is time for professional help. The family needs to hire someone who has experience, who lives here, who has the connections and who knows what to
do and how to do it.
If anyone of my family or friends went missing in Mexico, my first call would be to Lizard Lips (Dan) and I would hire him immediately.......the
Patton family should do likewise.
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Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Maybe they don't have the $10,000 upfront to give him.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Maybe they don't have the $10,000 upfront to give him. |
I believe there was a pro bono offer of assistance on the table. That may no longer be the case.
None the less, Dan's business dealings should be kept out of this. They aren't our affair.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Maybe they don't have the $10,000 upfront to give him. |
Dan NEVER said HE would charge them $10,000. He said that would PROBABLY be the fee a private investigator would charge.
And since you brought this up........what would you pay if it was your son or daughter???
[Edited on 10-20-2013 by bajaguy]
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Dennis, in all honesty, I think it is our affair in the sense that people are on the bandwagon for the family to hire Lizard Lips, and it could be a
financial reason that the family doesn't want to hire him at this time and not for a perceived apparent lack of motivation to find Gary. | Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Maybe they don't have the $10,000 upfront to give him. |
I believe there was a pro bono offer of assistance on the table. That may no longer be the case.
None the less, Dan's business dealings should be kept out of this. They aren't our affair. |
[Edited on 10-20-2013 by EnsenadaDr]
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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They were talking about mounting an air search, which obviously is an expensive undertaking.
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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I am just saying that finances might figure into the equation here. My son was kidnapped to Australia for 4 years by his paternal grandmother
when he was 13. I did not have the money to hire expensive attorneys but I did go to court against his father's attorney that was educated at Brown
University and George Washington Law school. The attorney was from La Jolla, California and was probably quite pricey. I also would not have been
able to hire ABG a group that specializes in recovery of kidnapped children either but I did all I could do at the time within the means of my budget
and placed considerable pressure on the Australian government and the California Family Court system which did finally order the father to give me
visitation rights. The upshot of all this was the grandmother came back to California to die from terminal lung cancer and my son called me one day
to say "Mom I'm back in the US" which probably was the most joyous and at the same time shocking phone call I have ever received in my life. | Quote: | [Originally posted by bajaguy
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Maybe they don't have the $10,000 upfront to give him. |
Dan NEVER said HE would charge them $10,000. He said that would PROBABLY be the fee a private investigator would charge.
And since you brought this up........what would you pay if it was your son or daughter???
[Edited on 10-20-2013 by bajaguy] |
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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You could probably hire a plane for a few hours for a few hundred dollars, or am I quoting too low? | Quote: | Originally posted by tripledigitken
They were talking about mounting an air search, which obviously is an expensive undertaking. |
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mcfez
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8678
Registered: 12-2-2009
Location: aka BN yankeeirishman
Member Is Offline
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Running around posting flyers and all that is great. Not hiring out someone that knows the game......is a mistake.
Flying around in a plane would take HOURS. Not only do you have to follow the Mex 1.......but every offshoot road and beach shore from TJ to BoLA.
What is bothersome is the fact that this gentleman carried a wad of cash.
I encourage the family to look for a private investigator. Perhaps contacting ELINVESTIG8R elinvestig8r@yahoo.com (seriously stated) would be a good
idea...he has experience and he partially grew up in Mexico.
Or
______________________________________________________________________
Thank you for choosing ICS. Please fill out the following confidential and secure form (4 step process). A professional agent will contact you within
your requested time-frame to provide you a no-cost and no-obligation consultation. Your information is held strictly confidential. Please be thorough
it will help us accurately help you.You may call anytime (800) 828-9198 USA/CAN or 011 480 990 8888 International
http://www.icsworld.com/Find_Local_Private_Investigator/Mexi...
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Maybe they don't have the $10,000 upfront to give him. |
[Edited on 10-20-2013 by mcfez]
Old people are like the old cars, made of some tough stuff. May show a little rust, but good as gold on the inside.
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CaboMagic
Super Nomad
Posts: 1109
Registered: 4-30-2005
Member Is Offline
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... continuing to think good thoughts ..
A question for the Pattons - has Gary ever been gone for extended periods of time before?
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Dennis, in all honesty, I think it is our affair in the sense that people are on the bandwagon for the family to hire Lizard Lips, and it could be a
financial reason that the family doesn't want to hire him at this time and not for a perceived apparent lack of motivation to find Gary. | Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by EnsenadaDr
Maybe they don't have the $10,000 upfront to give him. |
I believe there was a pro bono offer of assistance on the table. That may no longer be the case.
None the less, Dan's business dealings should be kept out of this. They aren't our affair. |
[Edited on 10-20-2013 by EnsenadaDr] |
If it was me I'd rather put up the $10,000 dollars for an reward leading to the finding and location of Gary, than paying a Private detective. This
way you'll have hundreds of people helping you, although it would probably attract a few nuts and false alarms, but I think there have already been
those types of things happening in this thread.
I would also put the reward poster in Spanish, not English like I have been seeing in this thread with the flyer.
There seems to be a lot of concern here for Gary, and I'm sure many Nomad posters would be willing to kick in a few dollars for the reward?
There are a few unanswered questions that I have. Did Gary carry a debit or credit card, and if so, were they used since his disappearance?
I know it's a family matter, and the family's call. But without knowing more about Gary's mental condition and how functional he is, it just makes it
much harder to try to determine what happened. For example, if he was suffering from some type of Alzheimer's, disease and has wondered off before?
This would be scary, but at least you would know there was a better chance of finding him, where he was last seen. If Gary is 80 to 100 percent
lucid, you could be dealing with a whole range of issues especially if there was no rhyme or reason for his disappearance.
[Edited on 10-20-2013 by JoeJustJoe]
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EnsenadaDr
Banned
Posts: 5027
Registered: 9-12-2011
Location: Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Move on. It is just a chapter in the past, but don't close the book- just turn the page
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Joe the family did mention that there was no activity on his bank card since the disappearance. The other thing is they don't know Lizard Lips only
from word of mouth, like most of us do reading this board and knowing his background. I have met him in person, and his father Ed is a very standup
type of guy. If they are just hearing of him for the first time, they might be hesitant to hire south of the Border. However, They could contact
Dennis for a reference on him and allay their doubts. I would imagine they don't come down to Mexico themselves either for fear or being employed
full-time. In any case, I am sure they are doing their best. Contacting this board was a good first step. I think all of us should consider getting
SPOT and giving a close family or friend member access to it just in case.
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lizard lips
Super Nomad
Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
Member Is Offline
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I have only talked to the Patton family on one occasion and that was to offer my help and give them advise on what to do initially to find Gary and
that was posted earlier in this thread. It appears that they may have done some these things but I have not heard about it. For those who do not know
me my experience with investigation started with my father who was a Private Investigator when I was born. When I obtained my drivers license at age
16 my dad had me on surveillance watching Thrifty Drug Store employees who were suspected of employee theft. I went to work for my father after my
military and college working on everything related to Private Investigation. We also were involved in many serial murder cases in Souther California.
When I moved to Baja 25 years ago I began working for US life insurance companies only doing foreign life investigations and now I have worked in 92
countries and all of the Mexican states. I have worked many missing person cases in the US as well as Mexico and a few other countries. The Patton's
asked me what it would cost to help them and I told them it could cost as much as 10k. This is where the $10,000 came from and I never asked them for
that to start my investigation. The way I have always worked is to obtain a payment and work within that payment and when the funds are close to being
depleted to ask for more only after a complete report is forwarded to the client. After the client reviews my first report then they can decide if my
work is satisfactory and want to continue. PI's now charge as much as $150.00 per hour. I would never charge that amount on a case like this and also
would not charge for down time such as having a meal, during sleep, and just a minimum for drive time however many investigators do charge for this.
My experience and ethics in dealing with clients is always up front and honest. I would never guarantee a positive out come. I am not a wizard but if
you know what to do and are tenacious you can get the job done. My dad always told me that investigation is like walking down a long hallway with all
the doors open. When you complete certain necessary work close that door and go to the next door and keep closing doors until you feel satisfied you
have done everything you can.
If the Patton's decide not to pursue hiring an investigator then what needs to be done is to coordinate those of you who have offered to help to close
doors.
When I worked a missing person case in Baja with Bajaguy, who was the interpol operative for the state of Nevada, I did everything I could and learned
a lot of what to do and who to contact in Baja. I even spoke with a doctor down south who had reported that two people were found in a ravine dead and
that one of them was a woman. Because the doctor said it was a woman, and we were looking for two men, I continued to search. What happened, I later
learned, was that the doctor said it was a woman because she had long hair. I assumed the physician knew what he was doing but apparently he missed a
few medical classes when it came to bone structure and it was a man with long hair and was our guy. If I would have had our missing guys dental
records with me it would have been over. That is why I put in my first post that the dental records are necessary NOW.
Again, I am not attempting to solicit my help in a monetary manner. I have offered the Patton's my help in anything I can do for them and my thoughts
however they have decided not to call on me. I don't know why? What they need to do right now is to post everything that has been done to date. Where
they have gone and also what you guys have done so that a concentrated effort on what has been missed is completed. Time is so important and immediate
contacts with all in government is necessary. The longer this goes on the harder it will be.
Hiring a plane with an observer is costly and will not turn up what is needed unless the plane is flying over every square inch of Baja. You need
boots on the ground and to send out a sense of urgency to those you speak with.
Since September 04-05, which has been 46 days, there has been no confirmed sightings of Gary which leads me to believe that either he does not want to
be found or has met his demise.
If the Patton's want my help I am here and you have my phone number. As I said many times already I will do what I can from here and also if you want
to send down another family member to search please call me and I can tell you what I would do and help you. Lets keep hope alive for Gary. My prayers
are just not enough right now.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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Remember this case?
http://forums.bajanomad.com/viewthread.php?tid=46144#pid5225...
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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TripleA
Newbie
Posts: 1
Registered: 10-20-2013
Member Is Offline
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The Baja 1000 pre running starts Oct 25th. There will be lots of folks down there in some remote areas. Maybe a Flyer, Photos in Ensenada at
Registration or where the racers hang out might be helpful.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TripleA
The Baja 1000 pre running starts Oct 25th. There will be lots of folks down there in some remote areas. Maybe a Flyer, Photos in Ensenada at
Registration or where the racers hang out might be helpful. |
Good thought, AAA. Welcome to BajaNomad as well.
Maybe a flyer to the organizers so they can put out a heads-up in advance.
"YOU CAN'T LITTER ALUMINUM"
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
Member Is Offline
Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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This is the case Lizard Lips was referring to......
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/1998/jan/10/2-nevada-men-fou...
"When I worked a missing person case in Baja with Bajaguy, who was the interpol operative for the state of Nevada, I did everything I could and
learned a lot of what to do and who to contact in Baja. I even spoke with a doctor down south who had reported that two people were found in a ravine
dead and that one of them was a woman. Because the doctor said it was a woman, and we were looking for two men, I continued to search. What happened,
I later learned, was that the doctor said it was a woman because she had long hair. I assumed the physician knew what he was doing but apparently he
missed a few medical classes when it came to bone structure and it was a man with long hair and was our guy. If I would have had our missing guys
dental records with me it would have been over. That is why I put in my first post that the dental records are necessary NOW.
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