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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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Why are you getting so nasty. I am only pointing out the facts. no one in gov't outside of the military gets 50% at 20. and 15k at 25 is not all
that good for being a FF. TW chill. You can't have a civil discussion. never mind....
| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Thar makes the median at 25000 a year as well. and 14710 for the FF?
And I hear this a lot "also why he probably never rose any higher in rank while a _____". As the head of a very large organization (1000+) I used to
have to remind employees that no matter how good you are, not everyone can rise to the top (its a pyramid dummy). |
Name a private company with a better retirement system for hourly employees. Only the military gets 50% of base at 20 years. The cops are getting 50%
or better (3% at 50) at 50 years old for 25 years and you don't think it's a fair retirement? Maybe you need to work harder to get into that 1% level
your so smart. |
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Breaking unions? They're already broken. Be afraid? Of what?
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Thar makes the median at 25000 a year as well. and 14710 for the FF?
And I hear this a lot "also why he probably never rose any higher in rank while a _____". As the head of a very large organization (1000+) I used to
have to remind employees that no matter how good you are, not everyone can rise to the top (its a pyramid dummy). |
Name a private company with a better retirement system for hourly employees. Only the military gets 50% of base at 20 years. The cops are getting 50%
or better (3% at 50) at 50 years old for 25 years and you don't think it's a fair retirement? Maybe you need to work harder to get into that 1% level
your so smart. |
Not in the 1% but happy where I am at. No need to work harder cause I worked smarter.
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Ken Cooke
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
You know, I am here for fun and Baja information exchange... as a conservative, I strive to be a happy person. In these political exchanges, I get the
'feeling' that liberals are quite unhappy and always seem to resort to name calling and insults of their opposition.
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I have camped with David a few times, and although I am not a Conservative, I tend to be very happy and enjoy visiting with my Conservative friends.
I don't like to bring up politics, because I know there will be disagreements. Instead, I like to argue about tangibles such as Jeeps vs. Toyotas.LOL
Backroad Baja with David K
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David was one of the first to welcome me on this board and sent me "Got Baja" stickers for my motor home, which I still proudly display. I too am of
the agree to disagree school. I value Nomads and the folks on this forum. I also appreciate a reasoned and civil dialogue.
Iflyfishwithmynomadbuddies
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
Speaking of Bucks for the Bang:
Military spending as a percentage of GDP is at a historical low and continuing to decline. |
I think we can find some very useful and unbiased info. here.
http://www.factcheck.org/2011/07/fiscal-factcheck/
Iflyfish
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: optimistic
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That's a good link, Fish. Very helpful, tho does not eliminate the arguments as is pointed out in the article..
It still comes back to phylosophy, and economic models as to how best to solve the problem of the high debt to GDP ratio.
Thanks.
Barry
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Iflyfish
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3747
Registered: 10-17-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
That's a good link, Fish. Very helpful, tho does not eliminate the arguments as is pointed out in the article..
It still comes back to phylosophy, and economic models as to how best to solve the problem of the high debt to GDP ratio.
Thanks.
Barry |
Glad you found it useful. I did also.
As I have said before, the USofA is a Mixed economy and the solutions to these problems will require mixed responses. My fear is that radical forces
in Congress, conservative idealogues, or if not them, then the Super Committee, driven by them, will cut spending with out providing stimulstion, a
ticket to even more unemployment. Unemployment is a very real problem and after the turn of the year hundreds of thousands will no longer qualify for
unemployment insurance, money that is pumped back into the ecomomy as soon as it is in the hands of the unemployed.
Time will tell.
I have appreciated this discussion and learned from it. I appreciate your allowing it to continue as you have.
Iflyfish
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Cutting Stimulstion ?
Please explain to what extent cutting Stimulstion affects the Budget Deficit and Debt ?
[Edited on 11-6-2011 by MrBillM]
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
Registered: 8-9-2009
Location: Mission Viejo
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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Thanks, liked the discussion too... and the link... does make one think hard on the realities "WE®" face going forward into this century ..
Population, Climate, Resources, Sustainable economy's and toss in astroids for gee whizz ....
Good luck youngsters .... not sure we left it as we found it ... just saying...
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Cypress
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
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Prohibit unions from contributing to political campaigns also!!
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Absolutely. All contributions from any and all Corporations, affilliations, organizations and associations including any all unions should be
prohibited. Political contributions should come only from individual voters in small amounts (specific dollar amount limitation per voter).
[Edited on 11-6-2011 by MitchMan]
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by krafty
DK, how can you have a friendly debate when you follow that up with how "seriously flawed" the opposition is? You know what they say about
opinions..... |
I was just about to make the same point. Well stated Krafty.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Military spending= jobs in the USA. Shipyards, aircraft construction, and all the other misc. items that keep our military up and running require a
skilled workforce.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Below is from a fellow NOMAD via e-mail----------just sometning to think about.
Barry
> This is one of the most under-reported fact of all time ... I wrote this to you previously, but here it is with a more detail. The Dems took over
the Senate and House on Jan 3, 2007 ... and Barney Frank and Chris Dodd took over Fanny and Freddy ... Not one bill or amendment of the Republicans
made it to the floor ... (for the next four years) and fifteen months later ... R
>
>
> The day the democrats took over was not January 22nd 2009, it was actually January 3rd 2007, the day the Democrats took over the House of
Representatives and the Senate, the start of the 110th Congress. The Democratic Party controlled a majority in both chambers for the first time since
the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995. Before that date the democrats controlled Congress for almost 50 years.
> For those who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is "Bush's Fault", think about this:
>
> January 3rd, 2007 was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress:
>
> At the time:
>
> The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77
>
> The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
>
> The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
>
> George Bush's Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB CREATION!
>
> Again- Remember the day...
> January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking
Committee.
>
> The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy?
> BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!
>
> Thank Congress for taking us from 13,000 DOW, 3.5 GDP and 4.6% Unemployment to this CRISIS by dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the
economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fiasco's!
> (BTW: Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie - starting in 2001, because it was financially risky for the U.S. economy, but
the democrats would not listen and in fact Barney Frank stated there was no problem with Fannie and Freddie).
>
> And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac?
>
> Then Senator OBAMA.
>
> And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie???
>
> OBAMA and the Democratic Congress.
>
> So when someone tries to blame Bush...
>
> REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007.... "THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER!"
>
> Bush may have been in the car, but the Democrats were in charge of the gas pedal, the steering wheel and they were driving. Set the record
straight on Bush!
>
> So, as you listen to all the commercials and media from the Democrats who are now distancing themselves from their voting record and their party,
remember how they didn't listen to you when you said you didn't want all the bailouts, you didn't want the health care bill, you didn't want cap and
trade, you didn't want them to continue spending money we don't have.
>
> I'm not forgetting their complicity in getting us into this mess, and I'll be marking my vote accordingly!
>
> "It's not that liberals aren't smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so" -Ronald Reagan
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64857
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have Baja Fever
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That's beautiful Barry.. but you know that FACTS only get liberals angry, as it spoils their concept of reality.
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Why are you getting so nasty. I am only pointing out the facts. no one in gov't outside of the military gets 50% at 20. and 15k at 25 is not all
that good for being a FF. TW chill. You can't have a civil discussion. |
You are right it's getting a little carried away and I apologize.
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Iflyfish
| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
That's a good link, Fish. Very helpful, tho does not eliminate the arguments as is pointed out in the article..
It still comes back to phylosophy, and economic models as to how best to solve the problem of the high debt to GDP ratio.
Thanks.
Barry |
As I have said before, the USofA is a Mixed economy and the solutions to these problems will require mixed responses. My fear is that radical forces
in Congress, conservative idealogues, or if not them, then the Super Committee, driven by them, will cut spending with out providing stimulstion, a
ticket to even more unemployment. Unemployment is a very real problem and after the turn of the year hundreds of thousands will no longer qualify for
unemployment insurance, money that is pumped back into the ecomomy as soon as it is in the hands of the unemployed. |
Most all respected economists on both sides of the political spectrum and big picture economic stats have pointed to the current economic malaise as
being a product of inadequate consumer demand. That is, not enough money in the pockets of the working class, and most in the working class cannot
even afford necessities. Ergo, economically and mathematically speaking, when you cure the inadequate purchasing power of the working class, you cure
the malaise in our market based economy.
Since 1980, the big picture stats and data show that our economy’s GDP and the nation’s income and wealth has grown at a steady clip. Those stats
and data also show that the proportional growth of the income and wealth at the top has grown disproportionately larger while the proportional wealth
and income of the working class has disproportionately shrunk.
.
Mathematically and economically that accounts for the fact that the working class doesn’t have enough money to buy what they have produced and the
corresponding and directly related fact that our economy suffers from lack of consumer demand. That, plus the near collapse of the financial sector
and the related great recession having hit the working class much, much worse than the top wealth and income earners were hit (actually the
concentration of wealth at the top actually grew as a result of the great recession) has further deteriorated working class consumer demand, and
according produced the overall weak demand of our economy.
The long-term and short-term fix must involve a fix to the way our economy has disproportionately under compensated the working class.
I mean over the last 30 years of the nation’s GDP and Income and Wealth growth, what good does it do to have an economy that has an annually growing
GDP where a disproportionate amount of the GDPs created wealth and income goes only to the few at the top while at the same time diminish the wealth
and income of 97% of the rest of the country?
It’s like the growth of an iceberg. As the iceberg grows, 90% of that growth goes under water while only 10% gets to float above the water. The GDP
growth over the last 30 years may define a growing economy, but its not growing for the working class that does all the work, it’s been shrinking for
us since 1980.
The economy is producing warped results and needs to be fixed. While the nation’s GDP, Income and Wealth has grown over the last 30 years, the
working class hasn’t gotten its earned share but the top holders of wealth and income got more than there share by the workings of a dysfunctional
economic structure.
This is not to say that the wealthy are all to blame. Not so. The economy has been hijacked by certain relatively few monied special interests who
were additionally successul in persuading complicity among some of the unwitted within the working class itself.
[Edited on 11-6-2011 by MitchMan]
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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Bill Moyers article in The Nation
http://www.thenation.com/article/164349/how-wall-street-occu...
I am enjoying the civil tone of this debate. This is a remarkable turnabout from many past Nomad debates.
Although Barry and I differ I told you he is a good man. He presents his philosophy eloquently and with passion. In spite of differences in ideology,
we are all occupying the planet together. You, whom have contributed so prolifically are to be commended. Thank you all! 
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JoeJustJoe
Banned
Posts: 21045
Registered: 9-9-2010
Location: Occupied Aztlan
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mad as hell
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This is a stupid chain letter right-wingers send each others.
It's so ridiculous it's not even worthy of any comments.
The facts is the President(s) usually gets all the credit or all the blame. The puck stops with the President. Bush was President during the build up
to the housing crisis, and the actual housing crisis bubble bursting. Sure things were OK for awhile because many Americans were using their house as
a piggy bank, however compared to the Clinton Administration's economy Bush's administration was no match. The Bush administration didn't see this
title wave coming, and Bush's regulators were asleep at the switch.
The fact is Barry A has admitted he lost over half the value of his stock market holdings during the Bush years, and didn't regain the value until
Obama came in and stimulated the economy. Barry A should be on his knees thanking Obama, and cursing Bush:
________________________________
The day the democrats took over was not January 22nd 2009 it was actually January 3rd 2007 the day the Democrats took over the
House of Representatives and the Senate, the start of the 110th Congress. The Democratic Party controlled a majority in both chambers for the first
time since the end of the 103rd Congress in 1995.
For those who are listening to the liberals propagating the fallacy that everything is "Bush's Fault", think about this:
January 3rd, 2007 was the day the Democrats took over the Senate and the Congress:
At the time:
The DOW Jones closed at 12,621.77
The GDP for the previous quarter was 3.5%
The Unemployment rate was 4.6%
George Bush's Economic policies SET A RECORD of 52 STRAIGHT MONTHS of JOB CREATION!
Remember the day...
January 3rd, 2007 was the day that Barney Frank took over the House Financial Services Committee and Chris Dodd took over the Senate Banking
Committee.
The economic meltdown that happened 15 months later was in what part of the economy?
BANKING AND FINANCIAL SERVICES!
Thank Congress for taking us from 13,000 DOW, 3.5 GDP and 4.6% Unemployment to this CRISIS by dumping 5-6 TRILLION Dollars of toxic loans on the
economy from YOUR Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fiasco's!
(BTW: Bush asked Congress 17 TIMES to stop Fannie & Freddie - starting in 2001, because it was financially risky for the U.S. economy, but no
one was listening).
And who took the THIRD highest pay-off from Fannie Mae AND Freddie Mac?
OBAMA.
And who fought against reform of Fannie and Freddie???
OBAMA and the Democratic Congress.
So when someone tries to blame Bush...
REMEMBER JANUARY 3rd, 2007.... THE DAY THE DEMOCRATS TOOK OVER!" Bush may have been in the car, but the Democrats were in charge of the gas pedal
and steering wheel they were driving. Set the record straight on Bush!
So, as you listen to all the commercials and media from the Democrats who are now distancing themselves from their voting record and their party,
remember how they didn't listen to you when you said you didn't want all the bailouts, you didn't want the health care bill, you didn't want cap and
trade, you didn't want them to continue spending money we don't have.
I'm not forgetting their complicity in getting us into this mess, and I'll be marking my vote accordingly!
"It's not that liberals aren't smart, it's just that so much of what they know isn't so" -Ronald Reagan
http://smartgirlpolitics.ning.com/profiles/blogs/in-case-you...
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rts551
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6699
Registered: 9-5-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Why are you getting so nasty. I am only pointing out the facts. no one in gov't outside of the military gets 50% at 20. and 15k at 25 is not all
that good for being a FF. TW chill. You can't have a civil discussion. |
You are right it's getting a little carried away and I apologize. |
No Problem . I am taking a break from this thread anyway. I think we have gone full circle.
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toneart
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4901
Registered: 7-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Skeptical
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
Why are you getting so nasty. I am only pointing out the facts. no one in gov't outside of the military gets 50% at 20. and 15k at 25 is not all
that good for being a FF. TW chill. You can't have a civil discussion. |
You are right it's getting a little carried away and I apologize. |
Thank you, TW. You too are a valuable contributor!
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