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Mexicorn
Senior Nomad
Posts: 772
Registered: 9-15-2009
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Guy's I think it's time to put this Subject to bed.
I really want to take the high road here and ask the administrator to lock this Subject since it has become very degrading to read no matter where you
stand on the subject.
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comitan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4177
Registered: 3-27-2004
Location: La Paz
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Strive For The Ideal, But Deal With What\'s Real.
Every day is a new day, better than the day before.(from some song)
Lord, Keep your arm around my shoulder and your hand over my mouth.
“The sincere pursuit of truth requires you to entertain the possibility that everything you believe to be true may in fact be false”
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wessongroup
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21152
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Mood: Suicide Hot line ... please hold
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goat1 doesn't get to this side to often... glad all are getting an upfront close view of what this individual considers as normal conversation.. a
pity, no... rather it brings out the true feelings of one... just that mine don't go where goat1 does...
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Pescador
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I just got the e-mail from a political forumn. Right straight from the horses mouth.
Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen
I'm Arizona State Senator Sylvia Allen. I want to explain SB 1070 which I
voted for and was just signed by Governor Jan Brewer.
Rancher Rob Krantz was murdered by the drug cartel on his ranch a month ago.
I participated in a senate hearing two weeks ago on the border violence,
here is just some of the highlights from those who testified.
The people who live within 60 to 80 miles of the Arizona/Mexico Border have
for years been terrorized and have pleaded for help to stop the daily
invasion of humans who cross their property . One Rancher testified that 300
to 1200 people a DAY come across his ranch vandalizing his property,
stealing his vehicles and property, cutting down his fences, and leaving
trash. In the last two years he has found 17 dead bodies and two Koran
bibles.
Another rancher testified that daily drugs are brought across his ranch in a
military operation. A point man with a machine gun goes in front, 1/2 mile
behind are the guards fully armed, 1/2 mile behind them are the drugs,
behind the drugs 1/2 mile are more guards. These people are violent and they
will kill anyone who gets in the way. This was not the only rancher we heard
that day that talked about the drug trains.
One man told of two illegal's who came upon his property one shot in the
back and the other in the arm by the drug runners who had forced them to
carry the drugs and then shot them. Daily they listen to gun fire during the
night it is not safe to leave his family alone on the ranch and they can't
leave the ranch for fear of nothing being left when they come back.
The border patrol is not on the border. They have set up 60 miles away with
check points that do nothing to stop the invasion. They are not allowed to
use force in stopping anyone who is entering. They run around chasing them,
if they get their hands on them then they can take them back across the
border.
Federal prisons have over 35% illegal's and 20% of Arizona prisons are
filled with illegal's. In the last few years 80% of our law enforcement that
have been killed or wounded have been by an illegal.
The majority of people coming now are people we need to be worried about.
The ranchers told us that they have seen a change in the people coming they
are not just those who are looking for work and a better life.
The Federal Government has refused for years to do anything to help the
border states . We have been over run and once they are here we have the
burden of funding state services that they use. Education cost have been
over a billion dollars. The healthcare cost billions of dollars. Our State
is broke, $3.5 billion deficit and we have many serious decisions to make.
One is that we do not have the money to care for any who are not here
legally. It has to stop.
The border can be secured. We have the technology we have the ability to
stop this invasion. We must know who is coming and they must come in an
organized manner legally so that we can assimilate them into our population
and protect the sovereignty of our country. We are a nation of laws. We have
a responsibility to protect our citizens and to protect the integrity of our
country and the government which we live under.
I would give amnesty today to many, but here is the problem, we dare not do
this until the Border is secure. It will do no good to forgive them because
thousands will come behind them and we will be over run to the point that
there will no longer be the United States of America but a North American
Union of open borders. I ask you what form of government will we live under?
How long will it be before we will be just like Mexico , Canada or any of
the other Central American or South American countries? We have already lost
our language, everything must be printed in Spanish also. We have already
lost our history it is no longer taught in our schools. And we have lost our
borders.
The leftist media has distorted what SB 1070 will do. It is not going to set
up a N-zi Germany . Are you kidding. The ACLU and the leftist courts will do
everything to protect those who are here illegally, but it was an effort to
try and stop illegal's from setting up businesses, and employment, and
receiving state services and give the ability to local law enforcement when
there is probable cause like a traffic stop to determine if they are here
legally. Federal law is very clear if you are here on a visa you must have
your papers on you at all times. That is the law. In Arizona all you need to
show you are a legal citizen is a driver license, MVD identification card,
Native American Card, or a Military ID. This is what you need to vote, get a
hunting license, etc.. So nothing new has been added to this law. No one is
going to be stopped walking down the street etc... The Socialist who are in
power in DC are angry because we dare try and do something and that
something the Socialist wants us to do is just let them come. They want the
"Transformation" to continue.
Maybe it is too late to save America . Maybe we are not worthy of freedom
anymore. But as an elected official I must try to do what I can to protect
our Constitutional Republic . Living in America is not a right just because
you can walk across the border. Being an American is a responsibility and it
comes by respecting and upholding the Constitution the law of our land which
says what you must do to be a citizen of this country. Freedom is not free.
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
Posts: 2116
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The vitriol she throws into her letter is enough to nullify the sensible material. Therefore, she's speaking only to her base.
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irenemm
Senior Nomad
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Location: vicente guerrero, baja
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Very well said Senator.
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k-rico
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An old adage comes to mind. "Don't believe everything you read."
I have reasonable cause to think it was not written by a state senator but by a poorly educated person. I demand to see the writer's high school
diploma.
"two Koran bibles" ??? That's like "two Chevy Fords".
The English is terrible.
Many statements are nonsense.
If a state senator wrote that then Arizona needs to pass another law that requires candidates for political office pass a literacy test and carry the
certificate of completion with them at all times.
It has to be a sophisticated document. If not the document forgers who are steaming into Arizona now to meet the demand will just produce fake
certificates.
[Edited on 5-5-2010 by k-rico]
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k-rico
Super Nomad
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Experts split on economic toll of illegal immigrants
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oxxo
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I had an interesting conversation last night.
My gringo neighbors invited me over for dinner last night. They live half time in Los Cabos and half time in Colorado. The evening discussion turned
to the subject of Arizona's immigration law. They are 100% in favor of it. I said that I did not support illegal immigration but that I did not
support the US business community hiring illegal laborers either. At that point they admitted they hired an undocumented Hispanic full time domestic
help at their home in Colorado. That puzzled me, so I asked them why. They said because they could pay them less, it was cheaper. They said they
couldn't find any gringo or legal immigrant who was willing to work for the amount they were willing to pay.
The conversation then turned to their complaining about how illegal Mexicans were getting free services in the schools, hospitals, and other public
facilities (all the arguments presented in this thread). I said why, they pay taxes too. They said no they don't, they are paid with cash under the
table. I asked if they paid in cash, they said yes because the employee had no Social Security number. I said they could get a SS card. They said
no, they didn't want them to get a card. Why? Because then they would have to pay taxes and it wouldn't be cheap labor anymore. This was now
becoming a circular argument!
At this point, I could see it was best to change the conversation to a different topic. But the evening still leaves me perplexed. Some gringos are
a major part of the illegal immigration problem and don't seem to care as long as their self-interests are met.
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Packoderm
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
An old adage comes to mind. "Don't believe everything you read."
I have reasonable cause to think it was not written by a state senator but by a poorly educated person. I demand to see the writer's high school
diploma.
"two Koran bibles" ??? That's like "two Chevy Fords".
The English is terrible.
Many statements are nonsense.
If a state senator wrote that then Arizona needs to pass another law that requires candidates for political office pass a literacy test and carry the
certificate of completion with them at all times.
It has to be a sophisticated document. If not the document forgers who are steaming into Arizona now to meet the demand will just produce fake
certificates.
[Edited on 5-5-2010 by k-rico] |
I was thinking the same thing, but in this age of Sarah Palin you never know.
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Charlie Daniels weighs in...
I don't know how everybody else feels about it, but to me I
think Hispanic people in this country, legally or illegally,
made a huge public relations mistake with their recent demonstrations.
I don't blame anybody in the world for wanting to come to the
United States of America , as it is a truly wonderful place.
But when the first thing you do when you set foot on American soil is illegal it is flat out wrong and I don't care how many lala land left heads come
out of the woodwork and start trying
to give me sensitivity lessons.
I don't need sensitivity lessons, in fact I don't have any-thing against Mexicans! I just have something against criminals and anybody who comes into
this country illegally is a criminal
and if you don't believe it try coming into America from a foreign country without a passport and see how far you get. What disturbs me about the
demonstrations is that it's tanta-mount to saying, "I am going to come into your country even if it means breaking your laws and there's nothing you
can do about it."
It's an "in your face" action and speaking just for me, I don't like it one little bit and if there were a half dozen pairs of gonads in Washington
bigger than English peas it wouldn't be happening.
Where are you, you bunch of lily livered, pantywaist, forked tongued, sorry excuses for defenders of The Constitution? Have you been drinking the
water out of the Potomac again?
And even if you pass a bill on immigration it will probably be so pork laden and watered down that it won't mean anything anyway Besides, what good is
another law going to do when you
won't enforce the ones on the books now?
And what ever happened to the polls, guys? I thought you folks were the quintessential finger wetters. Well you sure ain't paying any attention to
the polls this time because somewhere around eighty percent of Americans want some thing done about this mess, and mess it is and getting bigger
everyday.
This is no longer a problem, it is a dilemma and headed for being a tragedy. Do you honestly think that what happened in France with the Muslims
can't happen here when the businesses who hire these people finally run out of jobs and a few million disillusioned Hispanics take to the streets?
If you, Mr. President, Congressmen and Senators, knuckle under on this and refuse to do something meaningful it means that you care nothing for the
kind of country your children and grand-children will inherit. But I guess that doesn't matter as long as you get re-elected. Shame on you. One of
the big problems in America today is that if you have the nerve to say anything derogatory about any group of people (except Christians) you are going
to be screamed at by the media and called a racist, a bigot and anything else they can think of to call you
Well I've been pounded by the media before and I'm still rockin' and rollin' and when it comes to speaking the truth I fear not.
And the truth is that the gutless, gonadless, milksop politicians are just about to sell out the United States of America because they don't have the
intestinal fortitude to stand up to face reality.
And reality is that we would never allow any other group of people to have 12 million illegal in this country and turn around and say, "Oh it's ok,
ya'll can stay here if you'll just allow us to slap your wrist."
And I know that some of you who read this column are saying "Well what's wrong with that?" I'll tell you what's wrong with it. These people could be
from Mars as far as we know. We don't know who they are, where they are or what they're up to and the way the Congress is going we're not going to.
Does this make sense? Labor force you say? We already subsidize corporate agriculture as it is, must we subsidize their labor as well? If these
people were from Haiti would we be so fast to turn a blind eye to them or if they were from Somalia or Afghanistan ? I think not.
All the media shows us are pictures of hard working Hispanics who have crossed the border just to try to better their life.
They don't show you pictures of the Feds rounding up members of MS 13, the violent gang who came across the same way the decent folks did. They don't
tell you about the living conditions of the Mexican illegal some fat cat hired to pick his crop.
I want to make two predictions.
No. 1: This situation is going to grow and fester until it erupts in violence on our streets while the wimps in Washington drag their toes in the dirt
and try to figure how many tons of political hay they can make to the acre.
No 2: Somebody is going to cross that border with some kind of weapon of mass destruction and set it off in a major American city after which there
will be a backlash such as this country has never experienced and the Capitol building in Washington will probably tilt as Congressmen and Senators
rush to the other side of the issue.
I don't know about you but I would love to see just one major politician stand up and say, "I don't care who I make mad and I don't care how many
votes I lose, this is a desperate situation and I'm going to lead the fight to get it straightened out."
I don't blame anybody for wanting to come to America , but if you don't respect our immigration laws why should you respect any others? And by the
way, this is America and our flag has stars and stripes Please get that other one out of my face.
The Goat after a lawless immigration support rally.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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oldlady
Banned
Posts: 1714
Registered: 10-31-2005
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
If a state senator wrote that then Arizona needs to pass another law that requires candidates for political office pass a literacy test and carry the
certificate of completion with them at all times.
[Edited on 5-5-2010 by k-rico] |
Why limit it to Arizona? It's a good idea, probably problematic to get it passed amd enforced.
[Edited on 5-5-2010 by oldlady]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 18385
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oxxo
I said why, they pay taxes too. They said no they don't, they are paid with cash under the table. I asked if they paid in cash, they said yes
because the employee had no Social Security number. |
they pay sales taxes, a regressive tax that hits low income people relatively heavily, so often paying up to 9% of their salary in taxes.
they are a part of the economy, they are consumers, they get paid and they spend money, all contributions to economy.
some use false SS #s and employers pay payroll taxes on thes people.
also, wealthier people get advantage of off-the-books labor, so why is it bad if those wealthy people pay additional taxes due to their taking
advantage of off-the-books labor?
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oldlady
Banned
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Another convoluted, inaccurate, fallacious statement of finance/economic assumptions.
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DENNIS
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Posts: 29510
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CaptMike............Some excellent points. Thanks.
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
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I'll bet the Goat will somehow spin that the VAT (value added tax) that Obama is sure to push for is not regressive though.
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Cypress
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Not even liberals can be that stupid, at some point they must become intentionally deceptive.
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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I'll be darned, after further googling it appears that senator Sylvia did write the above words.
http://tucsoncitizen.com/the-cholla-jumps/2010/05/01/state-s...
Hmmmmm
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
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thx - can't take credit for all tho
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
CaptMike............Some excellent points. Thanks. |
but there was another protest in Phx last night, late afternoon actually - these guys were on break from their illegal jobs waiting their turn to
speak at the rally.
[Edited on 5-5-2010 by capt. mike]
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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monoloco
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Posts: 6667
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I want to know where I can get one of those Koran bibles.
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