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rts551
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here barry. maybe this will provide more than anecdotal info
In 2009, the most authoritative study of charter schools was conducted by the Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO) at Stanford
University. The report is the first detailed national assessment of charter schools. It analyzed 70% of the nation's students attending charter
schools and compared the academic progress of those students with that of demographically matched students in nearby public schools. The report found
that 17% of charter schools reported academic gains that were significantly better than traditional public schools; 46% showed no difference from
public schools; and 37% were significantly worse than their traditional public school counterparts. The authors of the report considering this a
"sobering" finding about the quality of charter schools in the U.S. Charter schools showed a significantly greater variation in quality as compared
with the more standardized public schools with many falling below public school performances and a few exceeding them significantly.
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Iflyfish
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| Quote: | Originally posted by rts551
here barry. maybe this will provide more than anecdotal info
In 2009, the most authoritative study of charter schools was conducted by the Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO) at Stanford
University. The report is the first detailed national assessment of charter schools. It analyzed 70% of the nation's students attending charter
schools and compared the academic progress of those students with that of demographically matched students in nearby public schools. The report found
that 17% of charter schools reported academic gains that were significantly better than traditional public schools; 46% showed no difference from
public schools; and 37% were significantly worse than their traditional public school counterparts. The authors of the report considering this a
"sobering" finding about the quality of charter schools in the U.S. Charter schools showed a significantly greater variation in quality as compared
with the more standardized public schools with many falling below public school performances and a few exceeding them significantly.
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Two points.
Public schools must take ALL students and that includes an epidemic of Special Education Students. Any idea what it is like to teach in a traditional
classroom with a couple of kids with ADHD and an Autistic child to boot? Let the Charter Schools take these students too and then compare apples and
apples.
The elephant in the room as far as education is concerned is that children have less support at home now and parents are less engaged than they have
been historicaly in reading to their children, eating meals at the table and backing the discipline of the school. We have many more single parent
families and since our war in Viet Nam it requires two working parents to support a family and that means less parent/child time. Many families do not
discuss the issues of the day and their child's experience of school over the dinner table. Few families eat dinner at the table any more.
In societies with more intact families, like Mexico, there are fewer disciplinary problems and more parental involvement. I know, this is a
generalization, but I do have significant experience in this arena in both cultures.
READ TO YOUR CHILDREN!!! and GRANDCHILDREN
Iflyfish
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Bajafun777
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Unfortunately, Public Schools have taken on the role of parenting that they cannot do nor is it working. The system allows those students that do not
want to learn but to disrupt, as they take up prime teaching time. In they past when we were kids this resulted in sending them to the office and
then on their way but this is no more. The almighty ADA, average daily attendance, monies for the school keeps those trouble makers disrupting all
day long.
We need parents to definately step up with involvement in the schooling of their children and not crying their B.S. of blaming the teachers and the
world for their poor parenting skills.
Why any professional would want to teach today with all of the low starting pay along with endless State testing which does not increase anything is
beyond me. Teachers deserve more credit than they are given for having to teach using every new crazy idea that hits some politician's head. Reading
is the main steps to better school achievement that is for sure! Note that tenure will not always protect the bad teachers, as I have seen them fired
or voluntary resigning more than once. However, the tenure and unions do try their hardest to defend even the known bad teachers that they all talk
about when others are not around,LOL> Take Care&Travel Safe---------"No Hurry, No Worry, Just FUN" bajafun777
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Barry A.
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rts551----------so lets study the 17% that are doing "significantly" better in educating our kids, and implement their ideas and practices???
By the say, I challenge the notion that it "takes 2 working parents" to support a family since the Viet Nam era-----------neither of my wives ever
"worked" at a paying job until after our kids were long gone. And my daughter-in-law is a teacher in CA now, and she is the sole supporter of her
family------my son is a stay-at-home-Dad raising my two younger grandkids (6 & 8). I think that 2 parents work because they have made a decision
that they "want more stuff".
Barry
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oxxo
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
rts551----------so lets study the 17% that are doing "significantly" better in educating our kids, and implement their ideas and practices???
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That's easy, the Charter schools are culling the highest achieving students from the general public school population.
| Quote: | | By the say, I challenge the notion that it "takes 2 working parents" to support a family since the Viet Nam era................And my daughter-in-law
is a teacher in CA now, and she is the sole supporter of her family |
Hold on there a minute pardner! The average salary for a California teacher is $60K per year (http://www.teacherportal.com/salary/California-teacher-salar...). A single working parent earning minumum wage earns about $20K a year. Even if
both parents work at minimum wage jobs, they make a combined $40K per year, much less than the average California teacher. Plus the teacher works
less than 9 months a year so they have more time to devote to to their children! You are comparing cherries to watermellons
| Quote: | | I think that 2 parents work because they have made a decision that they "want more stuff". |
I would agree with that statement at the higher wage scales like California teachers. I disagree with that statement at the lower wage scales. Both
parents work just to support a family and pay basic bills with two children.
To quote Rick Perry, your analysis above is "heartless."
And to bring this discussion back on topic, the philosophy stated by Barry above (which is typical for a large number of people in the US) is exactly
why the Hispanic population is likely not to support conservative Teapublican politics in any great numbers.
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mtgoat666
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message for david k and other zombie partisan sheeple
[Edited on 11-8-2011 by mtgoat666]
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mtgoat666
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message for the sensitive types here that find civil disobedience disconcerting
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Barry A.
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When I retired from the Feds I was making, after 30 years, $40K a year and we lived just fine and even managed to save 30% of it and invest.
I am not convinced the "2 parents have to work to make ends meet", and stick to my guns in saying that " 2 parents work so that they can have more
stuff".
If the Latinos don't like that, then so be it. But I cannot and do not blame unthinking "minimum wage earners" from wanting Dems in power since they
do get more stuff and services under Dem Administrations, but of course we will go bankrupt down the line. Pretty short sighted, if you ask me.
Barry
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David K
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Goat, you are the biggest partisan here... I am a consrvative more so than a Republican. That means I vote on the issues not the letter next to the
name.
By and far, the ones with a D are for MORE GOVERNMENT CONTROL, more TAXES. The ones with an R are for MORE PRIVATE CONTROL, more FREEDOM.
But, like in 2007, if the Rs loose their way they don't get re-elected. The Ds have been in carge of spending since 2008... Look how good that has
been for us!!!
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Barry A.
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Goat------leaders are leaders, no matter the politics involved. You are going to get the same result after the "revolution" as history has long
proved.
What is accomplished??? (other than long lasting chaos)
Barry
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Alan
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Unfortunately we keep throwing good money after bad. Everytime we give the politicians more money they squander it (both parties) to curry favor and
buy more votes.
I watched in pure amazement and disgust when our local school district decided to build a new Intermediate school. Their first step was to seize
private property through the imminent domain process. After several of years in the courts and finally winning their case at the cost of nearly
$1,000,000 (legal fees only, property price not included) they changed their mind and decided to build elsewhere.
Then for the school they ended up building, they designed a circular 15,000+ sq ft auditorium. (Is there any more expensive way to build a wall?).
In that auditorium was a stage about 2 ft tall. Rather than desgning a ramp (for which there was more than adequate room) they installed an elevator
to travel the 2' up to the stage for handicap access. Finally they topped the whole thing off with a copper roof! Additionally they purposely
underbuilt the size of the school so they had to bring in portable classrooms before they even opened. (apparently they get even more funding from
the Feds if they have to use portable classrooms).
When do we finally say "Enough is enough! You have to live within your means". Instead we keeping giving them more and somehow tell ourselves they
aren't going to screw us "this time". It's like everyone is suffering from the battered wife syndrome, continually believing that this time he is
going to change. Hmmm, how did the bank bailout and Solyndra work for us?
In Memory of E-57
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mtgoat666
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
The ones with an R are for MORE PRIVATE CONTROL, more FREEDOM. |
Freedom? ha, ha! The GOP routinely places restrictions on people, using govt to rerstrict freedoms:
DOMA
Patriot Act
School testing/school uniformity
anti-choice for women
most recently, the GOP went crazy on defining life in mississippi, and GOP in House are defending DOMA in court.
ya, sounds like freedom brigade!
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
The Ds have been in carge of spending since 2008... Look how good that has been for us!!! |
the post-2008 spending did not cause the recession. the recession was unregulated wall st run amock! who deregulated every 1%er they saw? GOP.
the post-2008 spending has moderated the recession, kept it from being worse than it would have been in w/ no spending.
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Iflyfish
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Barry A.
When I retired from the Feds I was making, after 30 years, $40K a year and we lived just fine and even managed to save 30% of it and invest.
I am not convinced the "2 parents have to work to make ends meet", and stick to my guns in saying that " 2 parents work so that they can have more
stuff".
If the Latinos don't like that, then so be it. But I cannot and do not blame unthinking "minimum wage earners" from wanting Dems in power since they
do get more stuff and services under Dem Administrations, but of course we will go bankrupt down the line. Pretty short sighted, if you ask me.
Barry |
I understand that from the perspective of a successful person like both of us it is hard to imagine that the cost of the Viet Nam war was that it
required two parents to work in order to support a family. I think OXXO responded clearly and well to that issue. Where did the money come from for
that war??? Out of thin air??
Please read the following for an analysis of the real cost of war done by a Nobel Prize winning economist.
Our national treasure and that of our children has been squandered on wars of choice that we did not need to wage. We are paying the cost. The Soviet
Union was bankrupted by its 10 year war in Afghanistan and its arms race with the USofA. Wars have serious consequences, most not calculated in the
run up. Who do you think paid for that great light show in Iraq we called Shock and Awe and watched on our TVs. Hope every one enjoyed the show, our
grandkids will be paying for it.
We have made choices as a country and there are real costs to those choices.
Iflyfish
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MrBillM
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Posts: 21656
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I'm with Barry
During the many years I worked for GTE, the VAST Majority I saw of those with BOTH parents working were doing so for MORE and BETTER
"STUFF". Truly amazing (to me) were the number of Upscale vehicles in the parking lot each day owned by hourly "Clerks", including
BMWs (a favorite) and Jag XJ6s. No shortage of Motor Homes and GREAT Boats, either.
It was difficult not to laugh at times when I'd hear some of those "stuff" owners wail and moan about the daily grind and their inadequate pay.
NEVER appreciated was my oft-repeated comment that "they should get down on their hands and knees at the entrance and give thanks that they're working
for GTE because their job skills bring about half what they're now making in the REAL World".
I had NO friends among the Unionists.
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Iflyfish
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MrBillM
During the many years I worked for GTE, the VAST Majority I saw of those with BOTH parents working were doing so for MORE and BETTER
"STUFF". Truly amazing (to me) were the number of Upscale vehicles in the parking lot each day owned by hourly "Clerks", including
BMWs (a favorite) and Jag XJ6s. No shortage of Motor Homes and GREAT Boats, either.
It was difficult not to laugh at times when I'd hear some of those "stuff" owners wail and moan about the daily grind and their inadequate pay.
NEVER appreciated was my oft-repeated comment that "they should get down on their hands and knees at the entrance and give thanks that they're working
for GTE because their job skills bring about half what they're now making in the REAL World".
I had NO friends among the Unionists. |
You and I ate the heart of the water melon and it was very, very good. Excellent in fact. Try not to rub it in on those who are not as fortunate to
have lived in the time that we did. You cannot blame the unemployment of the Great Depression or the unemployment of today on lazyness. Oh, you just
did!?! Did you skip school the day they tought about the Great Depression?
Iflyfish
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wessongroup
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
[Edited on 11-8-2011 by mtgoat666] |
thanks... as that is really the bottom line... the people/citizens of this "Republic" .... called the United States of America ..
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MrBillM
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Unfortunately ..................
On Major Issues, a Victory or Loss by the Dems or Reps, DOES Constitute a Victory or Loss for the Republic.
There IS a reason why, at election time, 45 percent of the Electorate will be SOLIDLY on one side or the other with roughly Ten percent at issue.
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wessongroup
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Kinda interested in voter turn out in this election .... if the turn out get into the 80-90% range ... the results might get surprising ... for some
...
Should really prove interesting... given the current conditions of the Republic... and that would be that approximately 40% of folks below 65 years of
age net worth is zero (0) or less ... and there is not much on the horizon for those looking for work... in the fields which had supported them until
the "sub-prime" hit the fan...
Toss in the "shadow" inventory of ever increasing amounts of homes which will be coming on the already glutted market ... does not really sound all
that great at this time.... some say another 5 million homes, just what ya need ...
If this election's turn out, in 2012, is once again like most other Presidential elections.. one should be able to draw some pretty good conclusions
about the ...WHO, WHAT, WHERE, WHEN questions for this Republic...
Maybe we need another "super committee" HUH !! how many has it been... two... in three years... and who has followed the recommendations coming out of
either ... nada...
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Alan
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LO2eh6f5Go0&feature=share
In Memory of E-57
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MrBillM
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Depression Lessons
From FishFly:
"Did you skip school the day they tought about the Great Depression"?
Well, there was a lot TAUGHT about the Depression in school and from relatives who lived through it. For me, I thought it interesting that my
Maternal Great-Grandfather and his Brother-in-law (both cabinet-makers) were never out of work during that time. In addition, I ended up being given
the 1936 Chevrolet bought new at the height of the Depression.
They were all dedicated Republicans till they died.
On the other hand, my Paternal Grandmother, with no marketable skills, struggled through and remained a devoted Dem who idolized FDR.
It's all in your point of view and ALWAYS easier to blame your fate on something else.
[Edited on 11-9-2011 by MrBillM]
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