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JZ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9481
Registered: 10-3-2003
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Get over it
It amazed me 5 years ago the prices people were willing to pay to live in Tahoe and Palm Springs. And as it turned out, that was the time to buy.
I'm sure the people the 10, 20, and 40 years before that thought the same thing.
Moral of the story: buy as much property as you can.
But you must use your judgement what you think value is. I'm not sure there is value in Loreto Bay. I looked a bit and it seems suspect to me.
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elgatoloco
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4328
Registered: 11-19-2002
Location: Yes
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Wasn't it Will Rogers who said " Buy land, they are not making anymore of it". 
MAGA
Making Attorneys Get Attorneys
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Just arrived home after a 8 day turn around to La Paz. sorry I did not get to see those that I had attend to see. Next trip!
I will post some update info after I get unpacked and love my Wife and goats, Cows and Horse< All in that order!
Any one wanting to go private please u2u me are email at sonrisa@dospalos.org
Skeet/Loreto
"In God We Trust"
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3795
Registered: 2-9-2004
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JZ: the Loreto Bay development is not the same type of residential other primary home development you find in the U.S. and Canada, with people wanting
to purchase a home and raise their families and find a job in the community. This development is proposed to be built in an ecologically sensitive
area, with many promises from FONATUR (responsibility for the water and infrastructure - which has had little success with any of its past projects);
is overpriced compared with comparable labor rates and land prices in the U.S., and is not warranted by reason of need. Consider this excerpt from
Sam Quinones, Feb. 17, 2002, SF Cronicle: ?Cancun, a Fonatur project, is generally regarded to have wreaked widespread environmental damage. The
Baja Peninsula is dotted with smaller projects built with Fonatur funds in the 1970s and 1980s that either weren't finished or never attracted the
projected numbers of tourists. But those days are gone. Limited by slim budgets, Fonatur now mostly sells tourism ideas to the private sector. In a
Mexico of increasingly active media and civic groups, Fonatur also must lobby community business interests, local politicians, residents, academics
and environmental groups as well as investors.? To me, that does not guarantee that the portions of Loreto Bay that FONATUR is responsible for, will
ever get finished.
Nopolo has been around for years, and there has been little interest. These Canadian developers are pushing their agenda, peddling it from town to
town (they were in San Diego last month). In Loretobay.com?s hype pertaining to David Butterfield, President of The Trust for Sustainable Development
(a land development company), it stated that he undertook 7 years of research and design for the planned community of Bamberton, Vancouver island,
involving a metamorphosis of a derelict industrial site into what ?would have been? an ecologically responsible community. The entire project was
scrapped due to a mixture of political and financial difficulties. (see www.tombender.org/bamberton.html). Criticism of Bamberton?s ranged from appropriate architecture styles, sewage treatment, open space, to the
need to upgrade energy performance standards. Much of the Bamberton hype is the type of rubber-stamp project goals they now intend for Loreto Bay.
Butterfield is also credited with Tucson?s Civano ?sustainable? community - only now building Neighborhood 2 and 3, some 10 years after acquiring the
land. As early as August 2000, the Civano plan was beginning to diverge from its master plan, and Butterfield is no longer involved. This ?new town?
of Loreto Bay will not be finished (as envisioned) for many years, yet the first persons buying into it will be paying for all the promises in the
interim. And, unlike Civano, there is no partnership with the likes of City governments, and Fannie Mae to oversee progress and ensure some measure
of success.
Commenting on the price of property in Lake Tahoe 5 years ago, as a matter of fact, many homes were available at $170,000 or lower - the same price as
the lower priced homes in Loreto Bay. (Their online brochure lists home beginning at $150,000, but in San Diego the low-end price was advertised at
$170,000). Think about it - what you get at Lake Tahoe is a secure title, a home on your own lot that you owned (not leased) for life, infrastructure
already in place, a beautiful lake, mountains, recreation, entertainment, medical care, no HOA fees, etc. I just received a brochure for a retirement
development in Port St. Lucia, Florida, which includes golf courses, pools, spas, craft/meeting rooms, and a host of other amenities, starting at
$70,000, and topping out at $125,000. (The land has a fixed rate lease). $170,000 will go a long way in Baja in an authentic Baja California town ?
one which you can start enjoying immediately - not something in a false fa?ade of a Baja pueblo, with a lot of promises and "narrow streets" where no
cars will be allowed, and the view blocked. I agree that buying property is usually a good investment, but the value is only contingent upon a fair
price, which is usually based on current market value ? a dubious calculation at this time, as would be ?equity? and ?capital gain? on the same
premise. Renting to offset your monthly payment? Consider the competition and the fact that they?re not built yet. The project is speculative at
best, and a gamble for sure.
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
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Very accruate and truthful Post .
Skeet/Loreto
"In God we Trust"
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rogerj1
Nomad
Posts: 265
Registered: 4-29-2004
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
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Loreto Bay update
I just found this thread. You all have really thrashed this subject out! I've been in touch with a salesman from Loreto Bay. They weave a very
compelling story. Sales have gone quite well. They sold $8 million of real estate at their March sales event. I was recently emailed a projection of
rental income that I think you'll find interesting. Their assumption is based on a buyer puting 30% down and financing the rest at 8.375%, According
to this, one could break even at a minimum, or even make a tidy little positive cash flow! Their sample is based on a 2 bedroom village home with
Beach club membership($5000 extra) selling for $250k. They're projecting rental rates from $250 to $450 per night and 200 nights per year of
occupancy. Here are the costs:
50% split with property mgr. $25000
Furniture Reserve of 2% $1000 to $2800
HOA $1800
Utilities $2400
Maintenance and Misc. $1000
Taxes $1500
Insurance $900
Bank Trust fee $350
I've attached the document if you want to look at it. Have at it! I have no affiliation with this project, just posting this for information purposes.
[Edited on 5-15-2004 by rogerj1]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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rental rates
let's see, a sales person said there is a projection you could get $450 a night and you could get that for 200 nights a year...ask the manager of the
hotel at Nopolo ,I was there in Feb. and it was vacant...I do not think you could get $450 Pesos per night at Loreto Bay...
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aldosalato
Nomad
Posts: 183
Registered: 10-20-2002
Location: La Paz
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scam
This kind of project looks more like a scam to get a lot of money through loans out of banks. Many projects like this have failed in Baja in the past
but have replenished crooks developers in the past. For sure it is doomed to fail as numbers do NOT add up
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JZ
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9481
Registered: 10-3-2003
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Doesn't look promising to me
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dono
Junior Nomad
Posts: 91
Registered: 9-11-2003
Location: Los Barriles B.C.S. Mex
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sounds way overpriced, baja has so many more nice areas that you can get into for a fraction of these prices, plus loreto has got to be one of the
hottest places in the summer time, ive been through there when temps are in excess of 110*but it is a pretty place.
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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$450 a nite, 200 nites!!! ha ha ha
what a joke! that's why the chivato hotel is always empty.
no one will pay that, the realtors are scamming suckers again. buy yes , but don't expect it to flow cash!!
I can't wait for the next seminar they put on in Scottsdale, i will attend and goof them up with Q's from a baja regular!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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bajagrouper
Senior Nomad
Posts: 964
Registered: 8-28-2003
Location: Rincon de Guayabitos, Nayarit, Mexico
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy and retired
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Beach Membership!!!
I remember the days of camping,snorkeling and relaxing at Nolpolo,never thought by 2004 one would have to buy a beach membership for $5000...best
memory at Nopolo:the day a dorado chased a flying fish right up on the beach...
I hear the whales song
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richard nauman
Junior Nomad
Posts: 67
Registered: 10-1-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: Tranquilo
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Cost of Rentals
$450 a night to rent a house in Loreto? I laughed so hard when I read it beer came out my nose and now my key board is all sticky. At least for now
you can rent a nice house with a pool for a week for about $600 and have El Rey de Tacos just down the street. I think the Posada de los Flores is
only around $150/night with that nice roof top pool and bar. Or if you're like me you can stay at Palmas Altas for $25/night. I'll stay in town with
the Mexicans and the Roosters anytime its way more fun.
RN
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tim40
Senior Nomad
Posts: 574
Registered: 3-29-2004
Location: Manhattan Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: There yet?
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AMEN!!!
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El Almirante
Junior Nomad
Posts: 38
Registered: 9-14-2003
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Prices at Punta Nopolo
Do any of you in the Loreto area have an opinion on the prices and features of the Punta Nopolo condos? I know the first phase is built and I think
they're starting the second, so there is actually something there, as opposed to the promises to build of Loreto Bay. Also, the proximity to the golf
course and beach interests me. Thanks for any replies
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Phil S
Super Nomad
Posts: 1205
Registered: 10-28-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: After 34 years. Still in love w/ my wife
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Punta Nopolo
The builder brothers are friends of ours. We've visited several of the owners frequently. They are Mexican Nationals from the mainland. Their website
will show you Phase two has about four or five units left to sell, and not even broken ground yet (12 unit building) It also lists the prices. Any
other questions, come back with them.
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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loreto bay rentals
I am a resident with a business in tourism in Loreto and after eight years in the business and my knowledge of the local hotels pricings and
ammenities, this proposed rental program of which I read and hear about from buyers, will be the demise of this project.
I really want to see Loreto Bay work, Loreto needs the boost in the economy... but to tell folks that they'll be able to rent a 1,600 ft2 home out for
$300/night 200 days a year? Get real! Will never happen.
Its enough that they just sell the homes to these buyers, but they want to keep right on milking them out of 50% of their rental income. Bad
business. I sure hope they see this and change their policy.
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Sallysouth
Super Nomad
Posts: 1835
Registered: 10-9-2003
Location: Capo Beach
Member Is Offline
Mood: missing Baja...
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Research for us?
Hi Pam, How about if you go "have a chat" with the" big guys" and let us know what you find out? You are a reputable biz owner and know the laws of
the land.Give us all a report when you get the first-hand info,por favor.Gracias, Sally
[Edited on 5-22-2004 by Sallysouth]
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sling time!
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yes!! Pam, you need to get your input
etc. to Jim Grogan, the jefe of all that officed here in sunny ond HOTTT!!! Scottsdale where i live..... get his contact info off the web site for LB.
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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flyfishinPam
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Loreto, BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: gone fishin'
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DA big boyz
| Quote: | Originally posted by Sallysouth
Hi Pam, How about if you go "have a chat" with the" big guys" and let us know what you find out? You are a reputable biz owner and know the laws of
the land.Give us all a report when you get the first-hand info,por favor.Gracias, Sall |
I'll wait for those big boys to come to me.
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