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beercan
Senior Nomad
Posts: 670
Registered: 4-3-2005
Location: North of da Bear
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Mood: happy to be in Baja
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I see little businesses fail too---
not only restaurants , but many other businesses.
It's the "American Dream" to be your own "Boss', but most of the time you end up a slave to the system. Most of the the business failures I have
witnessed (many of them) are from under capitalization .I also have owned a restaurant support business , Hood and Duct cleaning and fire protection
, so I was closely connected with all different types of restaurants for over 20 years .
| Quote: | by sharks
I see mom & pops fail all the time. You say it has nothing to do with the big boys. You imply they can compete on an even playing field.
"Reasonable price" is the key word here. I would have to disagree. Little places typically are buried in overhead . Taxes, insurance and all the other
costs add up fast.
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As Bill says and is correct, the good ones survive and generally do well, even in the face of the national chains.
I know from my experience of extensive travel all over this country during the 80's and 90's as a board member of a major national construction
organization. We would ask for recommendations from the locals , and it always was successful local establishments with good service and food.
* libs, all about choice until you choose different
* B. Hussein Obama - an Empty Suit for Empty Minds.
* Annoy a liberal - Work hard and be happy!
* Arguing facts & truth to libs is like bringing a warm smile to a gun fight.
* Lets win the War on Terror
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Confusion says:
Shovels please.
| Quote: |
the good ones survive and generally do well, even in the face of the national chains.
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It's hard to argue with that statement.
But where and how did you arrive at this opinion?
I can argue but with someone who likes fast food what's the point. Food is so subjective. I've asserted this before.
Good = Burger King?  Yer killin' me.
So, let me get this straight. From the standpoint of being good, that that insures survival? Would you not agree that corporate food giants
(including Applebeees) have siphoned off biz from like competitors. Also would you agree that just cause you are good that that insulates you from
failure.
I would argue that current economics plays a major part in success. Cash flow drives the biz. Many factors can alter the climate of the food service
industry. The fact that some foods like salmon have had huge wholesale increases can and do affect those at the retail level.
For instance, a local upper-end restaurant that incorporates the word salmon in it's name attracts patrons due to the fact that their menu and
reputation for serving salmon is paramount to their biz plan. In other words if you take away their salmon you take them away so to speak. If you find
the price of Copper River Salmon has gone up to $34 bucks a pound YOUR COST, good luck. Consumers will only pay so much.At least in this state. You
can't mark up your product enough to make a profit in such a case.
You make it sound so simple. Fact remains that this industry is a grueling one. A cavalier attitude for someone not in the biz.
Seafood restaurants share many problems that fishermen do. If they suffer so do we. It's a mess out there..... Don't get me goin'.
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MrBillM
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Posts: 21656
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Do Sharks eat Cheese with their Whine ?
God, what a bunch of nonsensical self-pity. Life is so tough and unfair, too. It's just not fair to fail even though you had good intentions and
tried hard.
I've heard that lament from people who have struggled and failed in a variety of businesses. The fault always lies elsewhere.
The "Whiner" scenario fails to address the central question. WHY do so many small restaurants survive and succeed in close proximity to the
BIG guys serving similar menus while others struggle or fail ? In YOUR business model, the Giants should eat up everyone equally
since they have such an economic advantage. I've found that, wherever I have lived, EVERY new restaurant will be initially
successful in the respect that customers will come in to find out what the new place is like. They'll also come back if they like what they find. A
few years ago back home, there was a small coffee shop operating when Burger King built across the parking lot from them. They continued to do well
and still exist, albeit they have switched to a Mex Menu in recent years. That change was not a result of Burger King, though, since they had shut
their doors long before. How can this be ? As far as Raw product pricing effects, all who use those are affected. A BIG difference, of course, is
the ability of the larger chains to ride out a rough spot. One of the biggest mistakes most small businesses make is operating "under-funded". When
I first went into business, one of the things I took to heart was the advice that "once you get through the initial rough going and the money starts
coming in, there is the temptation to take too much money out of the business rather than plan for periods of lower cash flow".
That I saw occur many times in businesses that failed.
The BIG GUYS do enjoy buying advantages based upon their volume, but that's always been a fact of life in any business. I remember years ago, making
a delivery to a local Shell Station and the owner was haranguing the District Rep over the fact that Fedmart was selling Shell Motor Oil for a few
cents less than he (the dealer) could buy it. He complained that they were undercutting their own dealers. The Rep answered that the dealer could
buy at Exactly the same price as Fedmart so long as he bought in 5,000 Case lots like they did. Bob (the dealer) stood there without
a thing to say. That's LIfe.
Your lament about the Sea Food industry reminds me of a "restaurant" I tried while working on a Telecom project in Newbury Park (Thousand Oaks). It
was a small deli-type operation with a fish counter offering Fresh and prepared Seafood located in a Stater-Bros Shopping center. Their prices were
HIGH and they were always busy. I ate there at least twice a week and sometimes more. The Quality was superb and they had been there for years. I
doubt they were losing ANY sales to Stater.
I think the biggest obstacle for small restaurants is unrealistic expectations. I've seen time and again successful businesses bought out and the
menu changed to reflect what the owner likes, resulting in failure. One of which was a coffee shop located in a shopping center where I ate Breakfast
often. It was always crowded. The owner's wife became terminally ill and the owner sold to someone who immediately changed it to a Mexican
Restaurant. It failed within six months. You can't WISH yourself success.
Burger King AND Carls Junior DO make some GREAT Premium Hamburgers, but I guess anyone who likes Hamburgers is beneath contempt and can't be expected
to appreciate REAL Food.
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Slowmad
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Posts: 243
Registered: 3-24-2005
Location: Alta California
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| Quote: |
Burger King AND Carls Junior DO make some GREAT Premium Hamburgers, but I guess anyone who likes Hamburgers is beneath contempt and can't be expected
to appreciate REAL Food. |
Not hardly too elitist for burgers, but am no fan of the watery feedlot beef and government cheese the chains pass off on the rubes.
For three bucks I can build a bomber from succulent grass-fed beef, a slice of real swiss, and a bakery onion roll.
Or, when in Baja, am partial to a two-buck carne asada torta.
But that's cool...burgers are a subjective thing.
The only requirement for love or chorizo is confidence.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Mr Grills' brilliance shines again
You are so way off. Come in and visit. Get a seat(if you can) I speak for the struggling restaurants and I speak about the screwed up economy. I also
try to discuss dining habits and spending habits.
You know diddly squat. You really should check us out before you say such basura. You know nada.
Ten years and still successful. Take your head out of(edited) the sand and get real. You know nothing about the restaurant biz nor will you ever.
Talking rationally and with years of experience with the wrong person.
Why do you profess to know the biz?? It's obvious you have no clue. You speak about unrealistic expectations. Another crock.
Are you a republican?? Is that why you so rigorously defend big sleezy corps? There must be a reason.
Whine whine whine..... gag, gag, gag
BTW, I do enjoy a BK burger occasionally. See how much YOU DON'T KNOW!!
[Edited on 4-5-2007 by Sharksbaja]
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MrBillM
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 21656
Registered: 8-20-2003
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BS and Burgers
While no expert on THE Biz or Business in general, for that matter, I have my own experiences in other businesses to rely on. Nobody
said that being a small businessman was easy. Anybody who started one knows different. It is awfully easy, though, to blame those difficulties on
some outside source. You seem to fit the profile of many others I've seen who feel picked upon.
It doesn't take an Expert to look around in any town or city and see what I've seen. Small businesses competing successfully with
the "Gigantes". Many make it, more don't. That's life. Suck it up and quit whining.
Your reference about "Republicans" says it all. There's nothing new about the Dems, especially Liberals, who feel that the "Little Guy" is being
cheated and trod upon constantly by the Corporate Godzillas who deprive them of their rightful success. It gets old after awhile.
Speaking of Burgers, the absolute BEST Hamburgers I ever had (25 cents each) were at the Jai Alai Palace Snackbar in Tijuana back in
the mid-50s. Possibly the second-most enjoyed Hamburger was in the BVIs back in the early 90s. After sailing all over the Islands eating Lobster and
other great meals at the various Tourist stops, we were walking along the waterfront in Tortola and stopped at a small place called "Cell 5". After
not having a Hamburger for over two weeks, their Burgers and Fresh Fries were fantastic. I think of them everytime I hear "Cheeseburger in Paradise".
None of that Queso for me, though. I hate the stuff.
"Cell 5" was a good example of a small restaurant thriving among larger surrounding ones. Successful because of GOOD Food at the right price.
Interestingly, one of the first things you noticed when going into their establishment was a sign which said " If you're in a hurry, go somewhere
else". Now that's confidence.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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Thanks Mr Bill
For a frank and civil reply. Not that I deserved one. Maybe with all the thousands of ff places ya git a bit po-ed. On every trip down thru CA I am
just amazed at the number of them that are new or recently built. Mostly the 1-5 corridor. Of course everyone on the freeway is in a hurry so......
Hell, I could use 10-20 franchises. But then you can't replicate yourself well in this line of work. Plus you need deeeeeep pockets.
"Picked on"? hey, I never looked at it that way. Bravo!
btw....ain't no Liberal, I have voted ALL parties. I have conservative and liberal views but just uttering those two words hurts.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
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lizard lips
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Posts: 1468
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: EARTH
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Now getting back to Applebees! I ate there yesterday with the family and will admit that the food was'nt bad but the service was really lousy and the
prices were a little high but what the hell, it's close to where I live and I wont eat at Sanborns or Vips ever again.
I am going to let the service statement go because it was the second day and Im sure they are still learning how to really pee off the client......
The bar area looks very nice. Did'nt drink so dont know the drink prices.
Best hamburger I ever had was at a street vendor in San Pedro Sula Honduras five years ago.
[Edited on 01/10/2007 by lizard lips]
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Bob and Susan
Elite Nomad
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Location: Mulege BCS on the BAY
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why not Sanborns or Vips
vips is RIGHT next door
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bajaguy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9247
Registered: 9-16-2003
Location: Carson City, NV/Ensenada - Baja Country Club
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Mood: must be 5 O'clock somewhere in Baja
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Vips once, ditto comments
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lizard lips
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If you go to Mexico City there is either a Vips or a Sanborns on every corner and when I mean every corner it's true. There is a major intersection in
DF that has 3 Vips and one Sandborns. Guadalajara and Monterrey as well.
The food is terrible but the service is really pretty good. So what do you want. Tasteless food or great service with nice looking Mexican women. I
want Mexican women serviceing me! That's why I married my wife many years ago but I regress........It seems like every time I have gone to either one
of these restaurants they are almost always full. It must be the service.
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Sharksbaja
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What's the average entree at those places cost? Are they similar to Applebees'?
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lizard lips
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I think I know where you are going with this question Sharks. The Mexican people are satisfied with this kind of cusine or they would not go there and
yes, the entrees at Applebees are much more in cost.
You have ran a restaurant for many years and believe me I for one would never debate you. I think it's a matter of aquired taste that people go to
Vips or Sanborns as well as the cost. In fact their breakfast is'nt bad. It's hard to screw up a good breakfast!
This is really the first time that Ensenada has had a restaurant like Applebees and after being here for 20 years it's kind of nice to sit down in a
place that reminds me of up north. I will not make Applebees a weekly event in fact I have many special local establisments that we go to all the
time.
I for one moved to Ensenada a long time ago to get away from everything that was happening up north when I was 32 years old. I do not want to see this
change but there is NOTHING I can do about it. I want my old Mexico!!!. It's gone------------------
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Wiles
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Registered: 10-1-2006
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MrBillM
"Cell 5" was a good example of a small restaurant thriving among larger surrounding ones. Successful because of GOOD Food at the right price.
"was" is the key word here as this place CLOSED, probably not too long after your visit. Doesn't help bolster your point much.
"larger surrounding ones" Where Pusser's is the only 'chain' type restaurant
in the BVI (2 onTortola, Roadtown & East end and 1 on Virgin Gorda, North Sound). Not a bad burger.
Maybe you are confusing 'Cell 5' with the 'Bomba Shack' and their 'Full Moon party' where you feasted on one of their 'Island burgers'? You know the
one, loaded with island mushrooms?  Might of fogged your memory just a bit. Shrooms and Cruzan rum is known to do that  .
"right price" are you kidding me????. I lived there in the early 90's and if you
wanted a burger for less than $8-10 you better hop the ferry to St. Thomas for a Big Mac.
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rob
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This is trivia amongst so many expert opinions - but Applebees has the best (only) parking in downtown La Paz. That alone makes me hope for its
ongoing survival.
Do NOT venture from the set menu as I did and ask for a BLT . . .
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MrBillM
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Clear of the Fog !
I remember with great clarity my trips to the area. No Mushrooms in my diet (EVER). That's another item along with Queso on the LONG list of things
I don't eat. Although I drank my share of Heinikens, there were no extended bouts with the Rum, except for one late night at Foxy's on Jost Van Dyke.
When we went back to Foxy's the next afternoon, his daughter was surprised to see us since most tourists spend each day-night at a different
anchorage. We told her we enjoyed the area so much that we wanted to see more of it. The truth was that we felt so lousy, we didn't feel up to
heading out.
Our Sailing vacations were during the early 90s, so we're talking about the same time period. I don't, however, remember the Burgers costing $8-10,
but "Quien Sabe" ?
Too Bad about Cell 5, but I didn't have any future plans to get back there anytime in the future. Since you or I don't know what factors created
their demise, it's a world away and immaterial to any discussion. It is correct that there were not a lot of the Big Chain Restaurants in Roadtown,
Pussers being the closet thing, but there were quite a few substantially larger than the tiny Cell 5. Cost is always relative to the surroundings. I
found their prices quite reasonable considering the location. It is an expensive place to live. The cost factor was what discouraged any ideas I had
about retiring in either Puerto Rico, the USVI or BVIs, despite how much I loved the environment.
One of the ironies of this long ongoing discussion is that I don't even care for Applebees. They're OK and I've eaten there perhaps three times in
San Diego and Palm Desert. I prefer Chilis. In fact, the last dozen times I've been in San Diego, I've always gone back to Chilis even though
friends have tried to get me to sample somewhere else. As in most things in my life, once I find a place that I'm happy with, I'll usually stay with
them until something goes awry. In San Felipe, I've eaten at (perhaps) a half-dozen restaurants other than El Nido once or twice. El Nido, however,
I've probably eaten at more than a Hundred times over the past 26 years.
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