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Barry A.
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Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Not knowing FOR SURE if global warming is man caused, I understand that many scientists agree that should we spend the billions (trillions??) to
impliment the "ideas" of the more radical environmentalists the most improvement we can expect is about a 1%, or less, in the results.
I don't believe that it is worth it, considering the damage we would do to the world economy long term, based on "inconclusive" evidence.
Barry
[Edited on 12-18-2008 by Barry A.]
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Skipjack Joe
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<yawn> Shees, did I write all that stuff last night?
What got into me?
I apologize.
Nothing more on the subject from me.
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gnukid
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Quite broadly here is a theory for which evidence exists. Sunspot activity causes changes in the earths average temperature. This warming and cooling
due to the Sun has occurred for eons. In the past the earth saw average temperatures much higher and at times lower.
The cyclical changes which we saw over the recent decades caused some warming and an increase in carbon dioxide. The warming has since reversed and we
see cooler averages now.
The affect of warming on ice cap is difficult to gauge as some scientists predict that warming causes increased humidity and increased snowfall while
other argue that warming causes artic glaciers to melt however when the average temperature is -50 and the average changes a whopping 10 degrees that
is still not significant to cause melting.
Again, there is data that some areas have seen increases in polar caps as you see in the links I provided which show increasing snow cap in Greenland
and in the Southern Ice Cap. And as I reported the data used by the proponents of Global Climate Change was ruled by the UK Supreme Court and the in
Hearings by the US Senate to be exaggerated and falsified. There is a long list of scientists opposed to Global Warming and a short list of pro Global
Warming proponents today.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110008597
http://www.icis.com/Articles/2008/05/19/9125103/31000-scient...
Now we also found out that Polar Bears are not in significant decline and that they do swim for great lengths to feed and periodically rest on small
ice formations.
So we can conclude based on the UK Supreme Court and the testimony of thousands of scientists that there is not significant scientific basis for
announcing a Global Climate Change while there is clearly a political and emotional argument to support a tax of each human being.
Now, why would I, a staunch ecologist and conservationist be against the politics of Global Change? Well because it is not science, the Carbon Tax
plan is not justified and instead is apparently a piece of the falsified push to increase taxes and legislation which puts controls on individuals, it
would hurt poor people the most and fail to cause a beneficial change as Corporations trade in a new market called Carbon Credits where they profit.
Finally taking a historical view, Carbon is an element of life that we require to fuel the growth of plants in the ocean and on land. Carbon is the
source of energy that plants need. Its no wonder that the Globalists Plan is to demonize and tax Carbon as this was written about for centuries, if
Rulers could control food and energy and even the air humans and plants breathe they control everything. Adolph Hitler wrote about taxing Carbon in
his works and our politicians today are of the same ilk as you may be aware.
There are other issues intertwined, as there are extensive operations to change the atmosphere and thus temperature with bioengineered chemical
trails. The US has a huge number of atmospheric chemical distribution planes and we see them flying over world population centers. Possible uses are
weather control, population control, inoculation. This artificial technique affects the data noted in regard to Climate Change.
Recently, a bill . HR 2977 was put forth to regulate Chemtrails use by the Government known as Project Cloverleaf or Geoengineering.
http://www.lightwatcher.com/chemtrails/smoking_gun.html
What is wrong with our skies?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1332178607299698024
http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/infoelect/e6/dash8.html
http://contrailscience.com/contrail-or-chemtrail/
http://artificialclouds.com/
From the large amount of evidence for and against the Man-Made Global Warming Theory we can conclude that the proponents have used falsified data to a
degree which is ludicrous in order to push for a new market called Carbon credits and tax the poorest people heavily therefore we must reject
increased legislation and instead do our part individually to reduce waste and conserve which is efficient and beneficial, such as methods to use
technologies which save energy and money, not increases costs and legislation on the backs of poor people.
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David K
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Location: San Diego County
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The world has warmed and it has cooled long BEFORE man and before fossil fuels... and will continue to warm and cool long after man and after fossil
fuels.
The earth produces far, far more 'greenhouse' and 'ozone depleting' gasses than man could dream of producing... and yet the earth is still full of
life, and more is being discovered every year.
Look to the volcano and natural methane release as what is outproducing man's contribution to 'global warming'... A NATURAL and NORMAL event...
DON'T worry... because NATURE is far more powerful than us humans and will get what she wants, in the end.
They predicted an ice age was starting just 30 years ago... and that didn't get them any special funding or power... So, let's say we are 'warming'
and scare the pants off those who react to every preceived crisis... and guess what, THAT worked... Gave scientists money, has-been politicians and
actors some fame, empowered the government to justify more control over us... etc. etc.
Sure we had a few warmer than normal years... now we are having some cooler thanm normal years... FOLKS, it all balances out... We have not lived long
enough to see what is 'normal'... Man hasn't been recording temperatures long enough to see what's normal, either...
Sea levels are rising from man made global warming? I can show you many places, in the desert, hundreds of feet above sea level with fossilized sea
shells from 5-15 million years ago. Seems to me, IF the sea levels were rising, it is only to get back to where they were before... LONG before man!
THINK BEFORE YOU REACT to the global warming hysteria. Maybe, just maybe it is all about some money and power for some people at the expense to the
rest of us???
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norte
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Posts: 1163
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Geeze.
first statement - long before the world has.....
6th statement - we haven't been recording blah, blah, blah
7th statement. couldn't be because the Earths crust is constantly rolling and moving could it.
Talk about making up your own scenarios. Maybe, just maybe its all about ignorance.
Sounds like the world is still flat doesn't it. Science...pooh pooh
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65297
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by norte
Geeze.
first statement - long before the world has.....
6th statement - we haven't been recording blah, blah, blah
7th statement. couldn't be because the Earths crust is constantly rolling and moving could it.
Talk about making up your own scenarios. Maybe, just maybe its all about ignorance.
Sounds like the world is still flat doesn't it. Science...pooh pooh |
You can't even get the first statement right norte... I said long before MAN, not the world.
I suggest you read some of gnukids links and understand how large and old the earth is. Man is a tiny blip in time here... man's activities that have
affected the enviroment an even smaller blip.
People are using hysteria and false science of man-made global warming to gain money and power... So, blame man for some of his evils... but they are
evils against other men!
Cheers!
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MrBillM
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Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: Out and About
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Mood: It's a Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah Day
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Neither Rain nor Snow nor Gloom of Night ?
We found out this week that the USPS motto is a Crock of Crap ! At least here in the High Desert.
NO delivery on Monday. NO delivery on Tuesday and NO delivery on Wednesday. Thursday doesn't look good, but the sun's out and MAY melt enough snow
to clear the street. Wouldn't bet on it, though. With the shortage of snow plows in the area, they don't bother with the residential streets.
Haven't seen this much snow in at least Ten years and maybe more. We've NEVER lost so many tree branches. Once again, we're reminded that Eucalyptus
trees are not meant for snow country. Broken branches everwhere, including the driveway.
Probably as a result of being old, a neighbor from across the street came over to check on us this a.m. because they hadn't seen our trucks move or
seen us in three days.
An amusing, but (momentarily) worrisome event yesterday was watching a 2WD F-150 try to make a U-turn in front of the house. As he slid sideways
towards our fence I wondered if he'd stop in time. He did (barely).
Getting ready to hose off the Dodge 4WD truck and head for the market (maybe).
This Global Warming is getting to be a pain in the butt.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
Hmm..baitcast, there is a plus side to all this bad news and supposition. I just went out front and checked the high tide marks I've made on my
seawall since 1971. According to my calculations I should have terrific red snapper fishing in my living room by 2025!
MERRY CHRISTMAS! |
Pompano, can you share the details of your 31 year research. How much higher IS that mark?
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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David K
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Posts: 65297
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pompano
Hmm..baitcast, there is a plus side to all this bad news and supposition. I just went out front and checked the high tide marks I've made on my
seawall since 1971. According to my calculations I should have terrific red snapper fishing in my living room by 2025!
MERRY CHRISTMAS! |
Pompano, can you share the details of your 31 year research. How much higher IS that mark? |
Now, how do we figure out if the sea level is higher OR the wall (beach) is lower???
In 30 years of camping on Shell Island (a barrier island beach not more than a few feet above high tide), where a sea level rise would easily be
noticed and make it a total island... NOTHING HAS CHANGED. 
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gnukid
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Posts: 4411
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This documentary has extensive data about sea levels. If you wish, click forward about mid-way toward the 24 minute mark and you can see extensive
data about sea levels.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295...
Reviewing the data across a variety of sources, counter-intuitively, a increase in global temperatures would precipitate an increase in humidity and
increased polar snowfall, conversely, a cooling of global temperatures would precipitate a decrease in humidity, decreased precipitation and a
decrease in polar ice caps which is what we see now, a general cooling and in some cases reduced polar cap.
[Edited on 12-18-2008 by gnukid]
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Sharksbaja
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 David, unless the wall sunk the water line mark would remain static wouldn't
it?
[Edited on 12-19-2008 by Sharksbaja]
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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norte
Super Nomad
Posts: 1163
Registered: 10-8-2008
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
| Quote: | Originally posted by norte
Geeze.
first statement - long before the world has.....
6th statement - we haven't been recording blah, blah, blah
7th statement. couldn't be because the Earths crust is constantly rolling and moving could it.
Talk about making up your own scenarios. Maybe, just maybe its all about ignorance.
Sounds like the world is still flat doesn't it. Science...pooh pooh |
You can't even get the first statement right norte... I said long before MAN, not the world.
I suggest you read some of gnukids links and understand how large and old the earth is. Man is a tiny blip in time here... man's activities that have
affected the enviroment an even smaller blip.
People are using hysteria and false science of man-made global warming to gain money and power... So, blame man for some of his evils... but they are
evils against other men!
Cheers! |
You miss the whole point. But I can't spell it out any better for you, Your right the world is flat.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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Norte-------"the world is flat"????
how can that be???? if the world was flat then all land forms would be under water----------and there would be nobody to even care about "global
warming".
Your "flat" inuendo (statement??), with no backup, that we who doubt man-caused global warming are ignorant is pretty presumptious, don't you think???
---your saying it does not make it so------I am looking for solid proof.
Barry
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
This documentary has extensive data about sea levels. If you wish, click forward about mid-way toward the 24 minute mark and you can see extensive
data about sea levels.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3309910462407994295...
Reviewing the data across a variety of sources, counter-intuitively, a increase in global temperatures would precipitate an increase in humidity and
increased polar snowfall, conversely, a cooling of global temperatures would precipitate a decrease in humidity, decreased precipitation and a
decrease in polar ice caps which is what we see now, a general cooling and in some cases reduced polar cap.
[Edited on 12-18-2008 by gnukid] |
Gnukid------
That is a great documentary film you have provided us-------thank you very much. It is very thought-provoking.
Barry
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65297
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sharksbaja
David, unless the wall sunk the water line would remain static wouldn't it?
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Corky, Pompano said his living room would be under water in 2025 if things keep moving at the rate he has noticed...
I said: Now, how do we figure out if the sea level is higher OR the wall (beach) is lower???
Now, to answer you I need to know what you mean... If Roger sees a rise in the water mark that means EITHER the water is rising or the wall is
dropping, dosn't it?
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Ricardo
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OK well a little more artic cold is on the way for this weekend, Gnukid is probably right on with the solar cycles etc. Hate to agree with him but he
seems to be calming down a little. Global warming is happening but will change to a cooling cycle ( I don't know when), nor do the scientists.
Lots of political BS out there but it helps curb pollution as they can blame global warming and work towards a cleaner planet.
Just a little bit of my opinion(I got lots more)
Rick
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Sharksbaja
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Yep! The water must be rising. Odds of the wall sinking that much seems unlikely. I wonder, is Baja rising, or what? We know a fault runs the length
and there is volcanic action occuring. It's situated on the Ring of Fire so a lot is possible.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65297
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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How is it the sea level can rise in Mulege, but not in San Felipe?
The land along Concepcion Bay sinking makes more sense... the ocean sea level is pretty standard.  
[Edited on 12-19-2008 by David K]
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Skipjack Joe
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Paulina
| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
...It felt real cold coming to work today. A full head of hair would have helped considerably. |
Thanks Igor for the smile your last line gave.
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Glad you liked it.
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 65297
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Here's what I drive across at low tide to get onto Shell Island (looking from the island west to the Baja peninsula)...
IF the sea levels were rising, this crossing would be getting more and more difficult... yet, in 30 years, it remains the same.
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