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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
But we are Nomads after all and God knows we love to say what we think!
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And read things from our own perspectives, read around what others are saying, say the same things over and over and still not be understood because
we all understand our own statements from our own perspective, and in the end, change absolutely no one's opinion about anything.
Taking anything seriously would be the real mistake.
[Edited on 1-14-2009 by jdtrotter]
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
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Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
Dennis' mention of Americans seeking to raise the standard of living. Americans can be blind and think that only they live correctly. It's more like
American's seeking the change others' standard of living. Not enough American actually get out and see the world; and many who go, only look but do
not see. |
I don't recall reading a single post of anyone here seeking to change their standard of living, only recognize and support their right to do so over
our opinions as foreigners as to what we "think" should happen here. Nobody here is going to be able to make any significant impact on what happens
either way.
You really don't think the folks down here would love to improve their stake? Why do you think so many try to head north? If you don't think the
locals would like to have more job opportunities just ask some of them your next trip down...
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fishbuck
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Again why do you care if they raise their living standard or not? That is their business and responsibility.
I'm not a dogooder or a malcontent. I'm just a guy trying to live a peaceful life in a beautiful pristine place. If the locals can benefit from me
spending money there good for them. If not then that is their problem.
But if they "ruin" the place with a bunch of ugly commercial developement they won't see another of my pesos. So that is their choice to make.
Time will tell what kind of choices they make.
By the way, an article in todays Long Beach Telegram says shipping traffic is down 10% from last year and expected to decline more.
So my bold prediction is that the Colonet Megaport will be "delayed" for quite a long time.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishbuck
By the way, an article in todays Long Beach Telegram says shipping traffic is down 10% from last year and expected to decline more.
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I don't suppose anybody here would like to comment on how we're ruining the Chinese standard of living.
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Paulclark
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Location: Castillo de Arena
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as of this afternoon ---
Mexico port plan on track
Updated January 14, 2009 4:49:33 PM
Bill Mongelluzzo / The JOURNAL of COMMERCE ONLINE
Mexico’s plans to construct a $5-billion container port at Punta Colonet in Baja California are still on track, contrary to reports in the U.S. and
Mexican media that the government is considering delaying the project, a developer said.
Ernesto Ruffo Appel, president of Puerto Colonet Infr aestructura SA, said his firm as well as other companies interested in participating in the port
and rail development project must secure official registration forms from the Mexican government by Jan. 26 and file by Feb. 4.
Companies later this year will face another deadline to announce their affiliation with a consortium. The various consortia will then compete through
a competitive bidding process for the right to construct the port and rail line, Ruffo said.
Punta Colonet, which Mexico views as an alternative Pacific Coast gateway to the United States market for the Asia container trade, has been discussed
for years, and developers have staked out claims to the site, about 150 miles south of the U.S. border.
At a press conference Tuesday in Mexico, Luis Tellez, minister of communications and transportation, said that due to the global financial crisis and
the difficulty the private sector is encountering raising money, the government is considering delaying the construction process.
Ruffo said the reports interpreted the minister's remarks to mean the Mexican government is postponing the bidding and construction process. “[The
government] is not postponing the project,” he said.
In addition to being a private developer, Ruffo is a former governor of Baja California, mayor of Ensenada and federal government representative in
the northern border zone.
Many of the Mexican, U.S. and foreign companies that have indicated interest in the project have their own capital or access to guaranteed sources of
funding, Ruffo said. The bidding process is legally open, deadlines are set and progress is underway toward the date when official bids from consortia
will be solicited, he added.
The massive price tag is only for the container port and 200-mile rail line that will connect with a U.S. carrier at the border. Punta Colonet is an
isolated, undeveloped site that will require many billions of dollars in order to construct a city, schools, utilities and other infrastructure needed
to support operations.
Two recent developments have cast doubt on the urgency of the project. In addition to the global financial crisis, container volumes at U.S. West
Coast ports dropped by almost 10 percent in 2008.
When container volumes were growing at 10 percent a year, terminal operators had projected that Los Angeles-Long Beach would reach capacity around
2012. It now appears that the Southern California port complex as well as other West Coast ports will have sufficient capacity for years to come, and
that Pacific Coast ports in Canada will also expand their market share.
Nevertheless, Mexican and international maritime interests are convinced that the existing North American gateways will become congested sometime in
the coming decade, opening the door for construction at Punta Colonet.
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BajaGringo
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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I agree that the port will be delayed due to the current economic fiasco and whether it is ever built lies heavily on how fast the economy does
recover.
Why do I care? I guess that is the difference in our perspectives. I have spent the majority of the last 35 years living and working in Latin America
and my interaction with the locals has been very up close and personal, not just passing through as a tourist, ordering a beer and pumping gas. My
wife and all of her family are Mexican, we speak only Spanish in our home as well as with 95% of my friends I associate with here.
I care what happens to them and I am trying to figure out why that bothers any of you so much? I think they have every right to seek the same economic
opportunities as we did north of the border. If you lived in California you know that most of that came from the coastal areas. That is just a fact of
life and while I wish the essence of Baja could forever remain exactly the same it is impossible to imagine how that could really happen. I can only
hope that the development that does come can find a way to keep a balance.
I am curious though why so many of you are so concerned about the Colonet area? How many of you have even made the trip out to the point? I have made
the 8 km drive from the highway and have never seen signs of any gringo resort getaway or escape. It is primarily just agriculture with tomoates,
chiles and some onions as I recall next to a couple of local fishermens pangas. As far as it turning into another Long Beach, you need to know a
little more about Long Beach Mike. I owned a testing lab for over 15 years that did a lot of air and water analysis of the Long Beach area. The air
problems are from the cars and refinery stacks, not the port. The underground water issues are big but are from the 100+ years of oil production in
the area as well as natural oil seepage from the ocean floor. If you live in Long Beach I would never drink the tap water. You will consistently find
detectable levels of aromatic solvents (carcinogenic) like Benzene, Xylene and Toluene as well as some other nasty organics that would show up on a
mass spec scan but not even cataloged in the current EPA organic test library.
Peace, love and fish tacos...
[Edited on 1-15-2009 by BajaGringo]
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Don't bother me
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
I care what happens to them and I am trying to figure out why that bothers any of you so much? |
Don't think it bothers anyone else. Where did you get that idea?
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
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I guess I am just reading between the lines...
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fishbuck
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Ofcourse I care about the people. I care about all people in the overall scheme of things.
I've even helped out with a little charity stuff and felt very good about it.
But it really isn't up to us to help them. It's up to them to help themselves. The same way it is in the US.
Bajagringo, I have read reports that state the giant carcinogenic air plum that blows off the harbor is from the 100 or so giant ships that pass
through the harbor everyday. The ships run very dirty fuel and run 24 hours a day to power the ship in port.
You should be a bit concerned because you will see ships going into Colonet from you house. And they will be at fullspeed when they really pump out
alot of exhaust. Plus all the trash that falls off or is thrown overboard will be washing up on your beach.
It's amazing how all this SoCal developement never seems to be able to pay for itself. The cities and counties are continuosly running in the red
here. And the infrastucture is crumbling too.
Do you think developement in Mexico will do any better?
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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BajaGringo
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I hear you man and I am not trying to push for any of this happen, but what I want here isn't what is most important.
Back when we did analysis for the APCD, the bulk of the air quality issues in the Long Beach area were car and refinery related. We did a few stack
tests on some of the ships in the harbor but when you added the mass weight of all their emissions combined back then, it paled in comparison. Maybe
since Wal-Mart began building all their factories in China and importing more, things have changed. I haven't seen any of that data since the mid-90's
when I was spending more time working on contract for some water projects in Central and South America. That is why I eventually sold out my interest
as I was spending very little time back stateside.
I remember reading in previous threads dealing with the illegal immigration issue numerous posts from Nomads that Mexico needs to do more to create
jobs for her people back home. Now when Mexico tries to do that very thing all the naysayers come out against it.
I find it to be a very frustrating catch-22 situation and with familiy members of my wife living caught up in the middle of this catch-22, it does
become very personal to me.
Sorry if I stepped on any toes...
[Edited on 1-15-2009 by BajaGringo]
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805gregg
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This is good news.
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Dave
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Why?
| Quote: | Originally posted by 805gregg
This is good news. |
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fishbuck
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I love most of the people I meet in Baja too so it's very difficult not to feel their pain.
I certainly don't know what their answer is. But I do always hope the money I spend there will help people. Really not much else to be done about it.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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Dave
Elite Nomad
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Registered: 11-5-2002
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Not job creation...but more wealth creation for Mexico's oligarchy
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaGringo
I remember reading in previous threads dealing with the illegal immigration issue numerous posts from Nomads that Mexico needs to do more to create
jobs for her people back home. Now when Mexico tries to do that very thing all the naysayers come out against it.
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Paulclark quotes:
"The massive price tag is only for the container port and 200-mile rail line that will connect with a U.S. carrier at the border. Punta Colonet is
an isolated, undeveloped site that will require many billions of dollars in order to construct a city, schools, utilities and other infrastructure
needed to support operations."
This development won't amount to much in the way of permanent jobs. The new megaports are almost totally automated as well as the rail lines that
transport the containers. Given Mexico's track record on educating and providing health care for its people the idea that they would spend millions to
construct schools, hospitals and other infrastructure is laughable. The port may provide services, but it will be for a select group of their
employees.
Thus far, the bulk of jobs Mexico has been creating mirrors the low skilled jobs that illegals find in the States...Only at a much lower pay scale.
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
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Location: La Chorera
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Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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Well now that those really "in the know" have cleared things up I guess that issue is settled. I should have just asked you guys...
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
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Registered: 11-7-2002
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Continually, I hear for us not to worry about these things too much because it is their country. Who is the "them" as in their country. Is it the
ordinary folks who have a say in any of these events? They've been dis-empowered from the very beginning. Could you imagine would would happen if
townsfolk in any particular town stood up to development that would mainly benefit some distant family's quest of profits and/or vain and provide
McJobs for the rest of the people? How would the authorities of Mexico handle what the common people of the coastal town of Bolinas here in the U.S.
have done to protect the character of their charming/maybe-not-so-charming hippy hamlet north of San Francisco? I'll tell you what would happen: the
soldiers would be sent in to establish order so that progress can proceed to the point where the town's inhabitants could not even keep incandescent
light bulbs outdoors due to theft. I'm sure you know what I mean by this. Mark my words, the town of Colonet and even Asuncion could turn into drug
towns if development occurs to the point where outside construction workers are deemed necessary. They just don't have the protection factor of a
Fonatur town. This sort of thing hasn't been fun to watch, and I wouldn't wish it upon anybody - regardless of which country. Also, you know that
Americans have first hand knowledge of the effects of gentrification...
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Bajahowodd
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This thread appears to be growing weirdly nasty. Here's the truth. Mexico is a soverign nation. Too many of us view the country by our contacts with
waiters and Pemex pump jockeys. Mexico has a political infrastructure that includes people educated in the finest universities of the world. Calderon
is Ivy league. Whatever we feel about an affinity to Baja, we must respect the fact that Mexico is a soverign nation, and will hopefully do what is
best for its citizens.
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Packoderm
Super Nomad
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Bajahowodd, I definitely take that to heart as far as my actions in Mexico go. I, however, do not feel compelled to suppress my views on a free,
conversational forum. Words of that come from the heart hurt nobody.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
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Amen. A free and open conversation is necesary. I love Mexico and its people. I spend almost all of my free time visiting Mexico.
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David K
Honored Nomad
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skipjack Joe
In his autobiography Ansel Adams writes about the new road built to Tioga Pass in the 30's. The Army Corps of Engineers decided it had to blast the
glacial polish through what is now Olmsted Point to build that road. To a man who grew up loving the Sierras the distant thunder heard in yosemite
valley was nervewracking. Anyone who has stopped at Olmsted Point and climb that smooth rock can now sympathize with AA's feelings.
That's how I felt driving the last leg of the San Felipe to Gonzaga road this winter. Knowing, that in the not too distant future Gonzaga will no
longer be the place it had been for so long.
What local population is going to benefit from that? Papa Fernandez? Coco's Corner? |
No local population exists except for a very few... mostly it is gringos... and they like the isolation...
If you walk into Rancho Grande's store and look above the counter you will see the proposed resort hotel... This is Rodriguez property (Los Pinos
tomato fortune). A highway would benefit him and other land owners seeking development fortunes.
Also, a gulf coast highway would be a great mileage savings for those in Mainland Mexico and Mexicali/ San Felipe wanting to drive down the peninsula
on pavement.
[Edited on 1-15-2009 by David K]
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