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Hook
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9009
Registered: 3-13-2004
Location: Sonora
Member Is Offline
Mood: Inquisitive
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I wish there were Mexican environmental organizations that were more interested in protecting more important aspects of their
ecosystem..............like the fisheries. More important in terms of livelihood of their people. More important in terms of the overall health of the
entire ecosystem.
And, yes, this wish is a tiny bit selfish, too............
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13043
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
Member Is Offline
Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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There were some very good points raised about changes in cultural traditions....change comes very slowly and sometimes painfully but they are
necessary to protect endangered species. Several people lately have been busted for turtle, lobster and abalone and it seems the locals are now taking
it much more seriously as convictions and jail time are resulting.
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
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Well, Baja Gringo, that is the problem, I am citing court cases, and you cite me newspaper articles with personal opinions; if you call personal
opinions evidence equal to court cases, then a problem arises; I am citing Public registry data, no newspaper opinions; I myself checked the legal
data and found the public documents where they are supposed to be, in a public office and there you find Police investigations and the result of
those, you find the Ejido La Purisima droping the claim that Munoz property is illegal and theirs, since he bought the land from the Federal
government and part of the procedure was conducted with the Ejido signature and seal.
On Semarnap, Munoz is not on Federal Zone, his property is the land on the side while Olivia is holding a Federal Zone concesion that allow her only
to have a Restaurant and palapas, her rent of bungalows ai unlawful as is to sell alchoolic veverages there; also and clearly selling turtle is not
allowed and is unlawful.
Clearly to obtain a right opinion we have to compare the same kind of proff to one side or the other.
What I am saying is that Munoz have all kind of legal verifiable and solid proffs while Olivia has only newspaper opinions sent by herself and her
husband.
Also, some of you sy you smell a rat; as if somebody had put the turtle on her, but remember that she was caught cooking it in her restaurant with the
heads in the restaurant kitchen by herself and her cook who was also detained; if somebody put her up to that she must have participated and accepted
to cook it and that is her own action, not something put there by somebody.
She was caught by a Marine commando operative, with a Propesca representative and Semarnao representative who were looking to all the commercial
kitchens and she was one of the two catched in the act; they argue that the turtle was for their own food but they had 2 big turtles for a couple of
people that is incredible; that is why she is in trouble, not because her land problems; lest not loose objectivity.
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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" Caught by a Marine commando operative" ? Where was the "health inspector"?
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baitcast
Super Nomad
Posts: 1785
Registered: 8-31-2003
Location: kingman AZ.
Member Is Offline
Mood: good
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Turtles have long been a favorite and not likely to change anytime soon,stew is fine but steaks and tacos are much better,the family was invited by
PaPa Fernandez and son for a taco feed and a great time was had by all
Rob 1965
Note the shell.
[Edited on 4-15-2009 by baitcast]
[Edited on 4-15-2009 by baitcast]
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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"She was caught by a Marine commando operative, with a Propesca representative and Semarnao"
That's what I call inside information. Not just a random check.
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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tripledigitken
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4848
Registered: 9-27-2006
Member Is Offline
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Mexicans big consumers of US exported turtles
It can't be assumed that all turtles consumed in Mexico are illegally taken animals.
http://www.chelonia.org/articles/us/Observations.htm
Ken
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
Member Is Offline
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As we know, they checked El Burro, the Hotel Buenaventura and several other kitchens, but in Bahia Concepcion only Olivia Higuera Aguilar in
Restaurant El Zargazo and another Lady named Gorosabe on Requeson beach were caught selling and cooking it for sale, they caught another place near
Constitucion, but they say they checked about 200 places with only those 3 catches.
The Propesca commisioner was in Baja for 3 days only coming from Sonora, so the operative was staged to take him to as many places as they could in
those 3 days, his visit was published and only a fool may have been catched selling sea turtle, but aparently Olivia didn't care or didnt know of the
area operative, but it was obvious, it was easter vacation, it happen all over Mexico, besides, those operatives should be more frequent.
Also, looks like a lot of people are very willing to accept sea turtle as food and don't mind people selling it, some sound like they are even hurt
that she was caught in the act of cooking 2 big sea turtles, with a big pot of stew, 2 blody shells and 2 heads in her posesion.
My friends, that is a federal ofense and a hideous crime and more for sale, lets get our values straight and avoid double standards.
it is not up to us to decide how criminal this act is, it is a criminal act agaisnt nature, no way around.
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Diver
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4729
Registered: 11-15-2004
Member Is Offline
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So ramuna53, who are you and why have you suddenly appeared on Nomads and other boards for the apparent singular purpose of feeding us your "facts"
and attempting to "stomp" then down our throats ?
On another board it has been said that you are Sr Munoz.
Is that where this is all coming from ?
Who are you, really ?
Care to explain your real motivations ??
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
Member Is Offline
Mood: undecided
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ramuma53, You've made your point. I agree.
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mulegemichael
Super Nomad
Posts: 2310
Registered: 12-24-2007
Location: sequim,wa. and mulege
Member Is Offline
Mood: up on step
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Oops!....i think diver has hit on something here.
dyslexia is never having to say you\'re yrros.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Diver
So ramuna53, who are you and why have you suddenly appeared on Nomads and other boards for the apparent singular purpose of feeding us your "facts"
and attempting to "stomp" then down our throats ?
On another board it has been said that you are Sr Munoz.
Is that where this is all coming from ?
Who are you, really ?
Care to explain your real motivations ?? |
While I think it would be interesting to know why ramuna53 suddenly appeared, but maybe it does not discredit all of his posts, IMHO.
Oliva may be a fantastic, wonderful person, but if she was cooking and selling turtle, that is against the law. Even if it was, as some suggest, a
sting operation, well lots of people are caught in sting operations when they are breaking the law. While I really feel for her and her family and
the possible consequences, it appears that there was a personal choice made here.
And, when dealing with the land issue, well, it may well be a very grey area---I know the situation my sister found herself involved with in the San
Quintin area was a world of grey.
So, while ramuna53 may have his own personal motives, he does offer a different perspective.
Diane
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
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As far as the land issue it's time for the extranjero to hire some gun toting security men who are not afraid to shoot if it comes to that. I read
somewhere that homes were invaded by the mano negro. If it were my home I would not go gentle into that goodnight.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
Member Is Offline
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I think Diver is right, the grammer, spelling and pronunciation are all spanish oriented. So since we can assume that ramuma53 is not the Minnow,
then it only seems logical that this is Sr. Munoz.
I think the point that we miss frequently is that we are visitors in Mexico and if we do not want to be considered "arrogant" we might want to keep
a lower profile when it comes to making judgements about things that are illegal. It is their system and they have the responsibility to make sure it
works and functions and a bunch of Norteamericanos passing their judgements and throwing their attitudes does nothing but inflame the division.
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
I think Diver is right, the grammer, spelling and pronunciation are all spanish oriented. So since we can assume that ramuma53 is not the Minnow,
then it only seems logical that this is Sr. Munoz.
I think the point that we miss frequently is that we are visitors in Mexico and if we do not want to be considered "arrogant" we might want to keep
a lower profile when it comes to making judgements about things that are illegal. It is their system and they have the responsibility to make sure it
works and functions and a bunch of Norteamericanos passing their judgements and throwing their attitudes does nothing but inflame the division.
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From several years of teaching students for whom Spanish was their first language, I agree with you. Spanish, IMHO, is the first language of
ramuma53.
I also agree about us being visitors and keeping a low profile is desirable.
But, curious, do you think it is wrong, or dangerous to support the enforcement of Mexican law? Just curious.
Diane
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
Member Is Offline
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Well Diver, even if I don’t write very often, that doesn’t make me new, I am registered since 2003 and that makes you the newcomer, not me, so I am
not exactly new here, I am a tenant of Mr. Munoz who live in Buenaventura Beach and I am not stomping it down your throats, I just don't like wrong
statements circulating without commenting on them and those are not my facts, those are public facts, legal facts that I know and that I have not just
extracted from an newspaper; of course, I investigated it because it affect me, I live there, but I went to the bottom of it with my attorney and if
you do that, you will find that Mr. Munoz simply is the land owner and that Olivia used to work for him and had only a power of attorney, then she was
fired and got the Federal Zone on her name, while the Hotel that has never been hers, paid for it, and the bills are in the Hotel accounting to prove
that fact; we the Buenaventura tenants have been there since 1994 and Munoz have been the owner since 1971 for what I know and with the Ejido
knowledge and consent, I am not alone living there, Mr. Thad Braxton and Mr. Murphy and Mr. Stan Valentine also live there and all of them pay rent to
Mr. Munoz not to Olivia, just ask to Mr. Stan Valentine how much money was extorted from him by Olivia and her husbands and if he has lost a penny
with Mr. Munoz.
It just revolt my stomach to see how people just believe what Olivia print in the clearly interested party newspaper; just write to that newspaper and
see if they print first page 8 columns 7 times what you said but they print even false statements from Olivia every time; yes there is a rat, but it
is not Munoz and time will give me the reason, just wait for it, we really have time on Baja to wait for anything, or not?.
My question may be, why so much interest to protect a criminal? What I tell is a public true supported by public documents; why sustain the Olivia's
myth as a victim when she is really the attacker and the known criminal; at this time she has 8 criminal prosecutions in Mulege and one Federal now;
from wounding an American with intent to kill to robbery and damages and lying to authorities, just ask the district attorney in Mulege, not me; she
was even sentenced for stealing from an American couple a few years back but anyway she never paid the money back; those are known facts by all the
people who live near us and now you, because you asked suggesting a bad intention; if you ask, you will get hard facts about Olivia all over the
place.
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ramuma53
Banned
Posts: 793
Registered: 2-27-2003
Location: Mulege B.C.S. Mexico
Member Is Offline
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El iNVESTI8 of course I am Mexican by birth and my name is Eduardo Villa Arellano, I will never deny it, just worked hard in American and came back,
my main language is Spanish, that fact is not a secret or the point here.
About protecting our houses, you are right because every year our houses get robed in October when we go to America, but armed guards are expensive
and that is why we don't do it, but we really need them, that is true.
About calling Mr. Munoz "Mano Negra", it is a disrespect act, but it is because he always use a black glove, because of an industrial accident; also,
as I told you, he has never taken anything from nobody here in Buenaventura Beach, just ask the hometenants here.
About the newspaper article saying that he took some houses in some other place, we laugh about it here, because he does not even know the place where
those houses are, as they are shown on the newspaper and if you segest he took a house here, these houses are his property, we are just renting them
from him, but anyway he has not taken anyone's house here.
Those are the lies I was talking about, printed in the newspaper without even corroborate them as true facts, clearly Olivias is trying to discredit
him and she has a lot of expensive help and that is something that smell like a rat, but people who know him personally will always give you the real
thing, he is not bad at all and will help anybody who need it, as many people can tell you here and in Mulege, we just don't care about the newspaper.
The other fact is that Olivia commited a crime by her own acts, may be a sting, but she fell for it, it is like as if I ask you to kill somebody and
you do it; you will only do it if you are an assasin, even if it is a sting and stings are used to catch criminals all over the world, just ask Mr.
Delorean.
The fact is that those sea turtles are dead because she cooked them to sell them as food and that is a crime, here in Mexico and in the USA too, she
may had just refused to cook them as anyone of us would have done, I am sure.
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Sharksbaja
Elite Nomad
Posts: 5814
Registered: 9-7-2004
Location: Newport, Mulege B.C.S.
Member Is Offline
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Well you said plenty and I'm sure there are two sides to the coin. Either way, she has never gone after Munoz or you, whoever you are on this forum as
far as I know. You mention everyone by name except yourself and that isn't playing fair. If you want people to actually believe you here, you have to
be a real person with a real name.
Anyhoo, can you tell us the state of affairs as it relates to the closing off and fencing of the area beaches. You seem to know everything going on
there.
The closings deeply saddens beach goers and campers, swimmers and others wanting to enjoy federally protected shorelines. Many generations and
countless travelers have made those beaches their destination for special times. A place they will always remember.
So terribly sad to see it fenced for private concerns. A real shame. I don't suppose Mr Munoz understands the gravity of forever changing the face
and feel of those "Special Places in the World"
I say, don't become a greedy Donald Trump, just be proud to own and share your paradise with the world. Just the way it should be with special
places.
It would be kind of you to share any knowledge concerning the changes occuring at several beaches in that immediate area. Are the beaches to be
closed permanently? Thanks in advance.
(edit for sp.)
[Edited on 4-16-2009 by Sharksbaja]
DON\'T SQUINT! Give yer eyes a break!
Try holding down [control] key and toggle the [+ and -] keys
Viva Mulege!
Nomads\' Sunsets
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ELINVESTIG8R
Select Nomad
Posts: 15882
Registered: 11-20-2007
Location: Southern California
Member Is Offline
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Eduardo I'm sure Sr. Munoz has been called worse than Mano Negra. Disrespectful or not it makes the stories about him a little more sinister. I am
sure this was done on purpose by journalists who I'm sure wanted a sexier story by portraying him as a mafia person. I am just thankful I never bought
land in Baja California because of all the land problems and greed that goes along with it. My only connection to Baja California occurred when I was
a starving homeless 14 year old Gringo who traveled down the pacific side of the peninsula some 42 years ago and was finally rescued by a wonderful
lady. I have a strong connection to Baja California based on that. As far as Sr. Munoz is concerned if he is doing things lawfully through the courts
I do not have a problem with it. But if he is doing business in an underhanded fashion with threats and intimidation along with court action then I
hope he does not prevail in his quest. Of course this is just my opinion and like everyone else’s opinion I’m sure it stinks too. Saludos, David.
P.S. As far as that lady Olivia who was caught cooking cahuama the federal government can do with her as they see fit and lawful. There is no sorrow
for her arrest.
[Edited on 4-16-2009 by ELINVESTI8]
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meme
Senior Nomad
Posts: 756
Registered: 8-20-2003
Location: San Felipe,BC
Member Is Offline
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Question Please?
Is it also against the law to be found in possesion of a discarded(no turtle) Turtle shell?
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