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jeans
Super Nomad
Posts: 1059
Registered: 9-16-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: Encantada
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Santiago
I've become aware that there is a small but significant population of folks who consider themselves way better than me. |
[Edited on 5-1-2009 by jeans to say "Nevermind"]
Mom always told me to be different - Now she says...Not THAT different
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DanO
Super Nomad
Posts: 1923
Registered: 8-26-2003
Location: Not far from the Pacific
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
We lived low to the ground down there. I knew I would one day be a superior person because of what happened when my Uncle-daddy Bobby Earl and I took
the wheels (almost completely) off our house and put metal all around to hide the innard. I'm not real clear on that idea now but he seemed pleased as
hell. He gave me a Lucky Lager all my own and smiled. Later in the day I was not so skippy-happy when some Puerto Ricos came by in a fancy car and
made fun of us. |
There you go again George. Poetry.
\"Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.\" -- Frank Zappa
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Mike99km
Nomad
Posts: 178
Registered: 5-23-2007
Location: San Dimas and ? in baja
Member Is Offline
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I love your list. I have heard it for years.
We call the snooty ones "The little roosters". At a surf spot they'll tell you they been coming for ?? number of years. How they are "whatever". They
will start to turn around and flap they wings like the chicken hawk in the old cartoons. Sometimes I just love to egg them on.
I love Baja and the people that live there from both sides of the boarder.
When I here something is the best and why, I know that is just the reason somebody else hates it.
Thanks for starting this thread
You live the life you settle for.
"Never teach a pig to sing it frustrates you and annoys the pig" - W. C. Fields.
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24baja
Senior Nomad
Posts: 952
Registered: 2-3-2009
Location: Grants Pass Oregon/Bahia de Los Angeles
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wishing we were in BOLA
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Nice tan Alan.....where is Julio?
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BajaGringo
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3922
Registered: 8-24-2006
Location: La Chorera
Member Is Offline
Mood: Let's have a BBQ!
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Julio is getting his nails done...
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24baja
Senior Nomad
Posts: 952
Registered: 2-3-2009
Location: Grants Pass Oregon/Bahia de Los Angeles
Member Is Offline
Mood: Wishing we were in BOLA
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oh well at least he's manicured, we could hope other areas are as clean!
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bajajudy
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6886
Registered: 10-4-2004
Location: San Jose del Cabo,BCS
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Paula
And I'm defineitely one of the ten coolest people in Baja
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Oh no you are not. I have been here longer, eaten more side of the road tacos, actually eat tacos de cabeza, have dogs named mochi, eta and pops who
are all puro mexicano, can see the beach from my place, blah blah blah
AND I can spell definitely
love ya
Kate yea right
love ya too
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estebanis
Nomad
Posts: 279
Registered: 11-11-2002
Location: Stuck North of the Border. They won\'t pay me
Member Is Offline
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I certainly agree with the Fishing Standards just wish I could meet them ($$$)! I figure you have to go through around a hundred A-holes to meet one
of the "Readers Digest" Memorable people! Being able to spend time with and get to know people that are the gems is worth all of the B.S. with the
snobs. I prefer to spend most of my precious baja time with the locals I just love how much joy they have. Most of them have nothing but are much
happier than any of the folks I run into here in Orange County.
Esteban
[Edited on 5-2-2009 by estebanis]
[Edited on 5-2-2009 by estebanis]
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Paula
Super Nomad
Posts: 2219
Registered: 1-5-2006
Location: Loreto
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajajudy
| Quote: | Originally posted by Paula
And I'm defineitely one of the ten coolest people in Baja
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Oh no you are not. I have been here longer, eaten more side of the road tacos, actually eat tacos de cabeza, have dogs named mochi, eta and pops who
are all puro mexicano, can see the beach from my place, blah blah blah
AND I can spell definitely
love ya
Kate yea right
love ya too |
Hey! I can spell, I just can't ttype!
And there's definitely room at the top for the three of us, and several others too!
love ya back
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Gypsy Jan
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4275
Registered: 1-27-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: Depends on which way the wind is blowing
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
I just completed a bottom to top commute and the one thing that stuck out was the extremely offensive, ignorant, self-centered gringos. This must the
reason that gringos have a horrible reputation in Baja. The lack of understanding and respect for Baja's people, it's origins, culture and art is
something unforgivable in particular in expats, many of which are nomads among us.
Gnukid: Hey I just met an indian who makes cool carved masks.
Gringo Nomad: There are indians in Baja?
Gnukid: Yes they make and sell art crafts at the tienda there on the street where you live.
Gringo Nomad: Its crap right?
Gnukid: Why don't you take a look.
Gringo Nomad: Oh no, our home is designed by Johnny Jones from Malibu and he isn't here now so I can't ask him if its okay to put that stuff in the
house.
Gnukid: Hmmm well you might take a look.
Gringo Nomad: No thanks.
Gnukid: Hey did you get a chance to see the traditional cave paintings, they are many.
Gringo Nomad: No. There weren't indians in Baja were there really?
Gnukid: Hey did you know there is a traditional dance celebration in the town square tonight?
Gringo Nomad: They will probably rob and steal from me and I don't like the music-its too loud.
Gnukid: Perhaps you might like to go to the quinceria of your neighbors daughter Lupita, she is turning 15 this weekend and everyone is invited.
Gringo Nomad: I don't like the music or the food and I don't speak spanish.
Gnukid: Hmmm. Is there anything about Baja you like?
Gringo Nomad: Yes I enjoy hamburgers and karaoke at the gringo bar.
Gnukid: Do you want try some scallops and shrimp ceviche, Juanito brought some by just now as a welcoming gift.
Gringo Nomad: Oh no, I don't trust mexican food I prefer to bring all my food from the States. I even have tv dinners still frozen in my huge freezer
from last year.
Gnukid: Golly, is there any chance you might want to visit the teatro, there is a free exhibit of local dia de muertos art this weekend?
Gringo Nomad: Hahaha Mexican Art, Hahahaha you have got to be kidding?
Gnukid: Oh well, did you see Ephraim is selling fresh veggies and bread door to door, its great stuff and fresh.
Gringo Nomad: I can't eat mexican food besides its all poisoned by salmonella I heard, isn't it.
Its quite a shock. I met so many gringos who live in Baja yet have no idea nor any interest in just about practically anything about Baja. Especially
those "baja wheel chair" riders in their quads who fire up to ride 20 feet. Worse of all yet, gringo communities like Barriles and Todos for example,
full of ex-pats who completely offend and insult Mexicans by looking down at them, those same Mexicans who in fact sold their land to gringos, built
their homes, maintain them, tend their gardens, cook their food etc...
Those expats who actually believe they are better than others because their house is bigger and their car is newer, they are such an offense to Baja
sensibilities, such a bore, so horrifically rude and inconsiderate to Mexicans, who could wonder why they are among the most hated and despised of all
and why that prejudice passes down through generations and encourages division. Or who can wonder why Mexicans can easily justify ripping them off
when they act so stupidly?
If the revolution comes which affects extranjero ownership, if it comes to blows between Mexicans and Gringos it will be because of these insular
gringo idiots who have few topics of discussion-themselves, their homes, sat tv, and why they are better than others.
Its pretty sad especially when the truth is the food in mexico is among the most tasty and healthy you will ever find, the people are the most kind
and generous, the art is so rich and the music so true, the community and family such a beautiful and integral part of life.
Its time for the Gringo Nomad community to step it up and participate, reach out, open up and get involved in Baja. |
A greater worldview would benefit all of us, even if we never leave our neighborhoods.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow mindedness.”
—Mark Twain
\"La vida es dura, el corazon es puro, y cantamos hasta la madrugada.” (Life is hard, the heart is pure and we sing until dawn.)
—Kirsty MacColl, Mambo de la Luna
\"Alea iacta est.\"
—Julius Caesar
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capn.sharky
Senior Nomad
Posts: 686
Registered: 9-4-2003
Member Is Offline
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I really don't give a crap what anyone does or thinks---just don't dis the Mexicans. Also, don't try to push your beliefs off on me. Other than
that, I could care less about gringos in Baja. Okay?
If there is no fishing in heaven, I am not going
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
Member Is Offline
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"I really don't give a crap what anyone does or thinks---just don't dis the Mexicans. Also, don't try to push your beliefs off on me. Other than that,
I could care less about gringos in Baja. Okay?"
No not okay.
What makes you so defensive???
Bad Gringo behaviour is an issue that affects all of us greatly.
That fact is that Gringos are creating a hostile enviornment through their actions, they are often too rude, self centered, egotistical, arrogant and
totally ignorant of their suroundings and offensive (care to add anything)?
Our collective impression is something worth discussing and as often as necessary to reduce the negative impact on everyone. So as much as you want
to squash open dialogue, you are going to learn your behavior affects everyone around you, especially so when you are rude, nor can we expect to
continue to live in a manner where we offend our hosts so often without suffering dearly for it. Perhaps to the point where we lose our right to visit
freely.
Basically here's a suggestion, "do not come to our Baja and act like a total self-centered arrogant Jerk."
Prejudice is based in misunderstanding, understandably so starting with Gringos lack of understanding of the people and culture of Baja.
We are community and we must reach out to each other, or suffer significant divisions.
Apparently we are the source of much of the problems in Baja, we are a source of hostility. Time to find out why? Why are so many Gringos so unwilling
to get to know their surroundings? Why do Gringos need to feel better than others? What's the source of this flaw? Is it based in a weakness and what
can we do to become better guests. How can we as a group make a better impression and change the perception that Gringos are jerks.
I know not everyone here is a jerk but far too many are and that's obvious.
My impulse to write here was based in a desire for greater consideration, openness, understanding and kindness where its lacking. Not only that, but
to engage and enjoy Mexico is really the greatest gift Mexico has to offer, perhaps many don't realize or are scared or have other reasons to be so
unwilling to accept and get to know Baja and its people who are truly fantastic.
Mexico is likely the greatest country in the world today and with the most potential. The people are among its greatest resource. Whats up with
Gringos who have no interest in their surroundings?
Perhaps there is a better way for me to approach this, but the point that is clear is that this cultural division problem is really sad and incredibly
overwhelmingly negative to our community. That is, Gringos might want to consider that they are in general perceived as incredibly ignorant and
arrogant and not very nice people.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
Member Is Offline
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It's far worse on the mainland. Just outside Guadalajara, by Lake Chapala, there are walled and gated communities of gringos, who maintain their own
social network and are totally insular. They have their own shopping and medical facilities. They could be on the moon, if you can get Direct TV on
the moon. I can absolutely understand why Mexicans might have a bone to pick.
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Mango
Senior Nomad
Posts: 685
Registered: 4-11-2006
Location: Alta California &/or Mexicali
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bajatastic
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gnukid,
I agree with a lot you are saying. I think it would be good for many here to get out of their air conditioned RV with satellite unlink and travel via
bus, ride in a combi people going to market, and meet/live with the locals.
All that being said. I am often very surprised at where/what/how many people here on BajaNomads have traveled in Mexico and Latin America. Really -
some people here have done some amazing stuff and have developed amazing relationships with the locals. Some of the knowledge and understanding is
truly amazing. On the flip side, ignorance, lack of compassion, or understanding is also very prevalent.. not only in regards to Mexico or Mexicans..
but in regards to humanity in general.
IMO - Baja suffers more than any other region in Mexico from gringos that do not make enough of an attempt to respect and learn about the people,
culture, and languages of Mexico. This has more to do with the proximity to the USA and the sparseness of Mexican
settlements/culture that makes it easy for people to avoid of limit their interactions.
I once met a tourist that was upset that the locals didn't learn English so she could have an easier time when she traveled to PV. I asked her how
well she was able to talk to the French and Germans in their native language that traveled to the USA. I mean really.. can we say self-centered and
selfish?
I know a few words of Nahuatl, Mixtec, and Zapotec and use them in the appropriate regions of Mexico. To me, it is important to be able to greet
someone in their native tongue when out for a hike in the forest. When you are able to say hello to a 70 year old man who does not know any Spanish
in formal Zapotec, it not only blows his mind.. it shows an insane amount of respect for him, his culture, and his ancestors.
I think we need to start our own "Compassionate Cultural Worldly" exclusive club and use double-reverse-inverse-psychology to further it's aggenda.
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lesliego
Junior Nomad
Posts: 30
Registered: 4-30-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: tired of rain
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Oh Mango, you give me goosebumps. I want to meet you, I think you have it right, no, I know you have it right. I was married to a Chilango for 5
years and learned to call his father papa. He called me hija; how I wish I could hear his voice calling to me "va" his catch-all for any occaison, or
"quiero opinar una cosa" and all of us responding every time "si apa, que quieres opinar?" it was a joke, but such a loving one...
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3533
Registered: 8-27-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by lesliego
Oh Mango, you give me goosebumps. |
OK - this has gone on long enough: I'm officially closing this thread.....sheeeesh.
On a final note, the rude guy I met was from CSL, not Abreojos. All you Abreojos guys can stop U2U'ing me now.
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vandy
Senior Nomad
Posts: 538
Registered: 10-10-2003
Member Is Offline
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Of course, there's the opposite snobbery...minimal impact people:
Pacific side to East Cape is better than SOC
>>>In hot weather, Pacific or mountains; in cold weather, SOC
Fido is better than leased.
>>>don't build...just enjoy!
Beach front is way, way better than, well everything else.
>>>You mean to build your POS house on, block access, ruin the scenery?
Full-time is better than snow bird is better than occasional visitor.
>>>Learn to say it in Spanish, and I'll listen to anything
Snow bird with cabin in Alaska is better than anyone on the planet.
>>>ditto
Fiberglass hull with extreme dead-rise is better than aluminum.
>>>You mean to row?
Center console is better than tiller.
>>>depends on what you're sailing
Custom ordered panga is better than used bought from a local.
>>>Aren't those hard to paddle?
Diesel is better than gas.
>>>You mean like Vin vs. beans? I choose beans
1 ton is better than ¾ is better than 1/2 is better than a car.
>>>Man, you guys are getting seriously fat! Try a bicycle.
Graphite is better than a fiberglass Uglystick.
>>>Handline. Mexicans aren't stupid. Try it
Custom wrapped is better than factory wrapped.
>>>Condoms or doobies? Tamales?
Braid is better than mono.
>>>dreads, definitely, before that kissing disease
2 speed lever-drag is better than one speed star drag.
>>>drag is drag; dress however you want
Trolling all day at the 100 fathom mark is better than inshore.
>>>I dunno. Lots of babes out there?
Pacifico is better than Tecate is better than Modelo light.
>>>You don't brew your own?
Having shared a beer with Graham is better than not.
>>>Sharing's good
Driving the road pre-pavement is better than never having done so.
>>>Ride a bicycle
Saying Mexico is S.O.S. is better than celebrating the differences.
>>>differences?
Hiding a pistol in the cab where it won’t be found but you can grab it real quick is better than driving ‘naked’.
>>>Again, riding a bicycle, even naked, stashing it in your caboose could be painful
Have a good time, y'all. Feel free to motor on up to my kayak if you see me being towed out to sea this summer
[Edited on 5-2-2009 by vandy]
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Osprey
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3694
Registered: 5-23-2004
Location: Baja Ca. Sur
Member Is Offline
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Santiago, can't close the thread until I answer your question about Wienie Water. My ma worked as a maid for some rich people just down the road from
our village, Redbone Slough. Once a week they would have a party for friends, cook up some hotdogs, afterwards give the water to us kids.
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fdt
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4059
Registered: 9-7-2003
Location: Tijuana, Baja California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Yeah, what if it all goes right
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| Quote: | Originally posted by vandy
>>>Again, riding a bicycle, even naked, stashing it in your caboose could be painful
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What about Julio?
A well informed Baja California traveler is a smart Baja California traveler!
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Santiago
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3533
Registered: 8-27-2003
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Osprey
Santiago, can't close the thread until I answer your question about Wienie Water. My ma worked as a maid for some rich people just down the road from
our village, Redbone Slough. Once a week they would have a party for friends, cook up some hotdogs, afterwards give the water to us kids.
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Wow-I grew up in Bakersfield, for goodness sakes, and can't beat that one. Best I can do is begging for ice from the milk man on hot summer days.
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