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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
For Mexicans, besides the high cost of obtaining a US visa, and now it appears a Canadian visa there is the wait, the uncertainty, and often travel
expenses that may or may not result in a visa. |
Let me do some explaining, as the ignorance level is fairly high here. First of all, the visa application fee the US charges is $131. The US charges
the exact same amount for all visa application fees from anywhere in the world, not just Mexico. The purpose of the fee is to offset the cost of
processing the application. It is not a profit center for the US. $131 is not a lot of money. If it seems like too much to a Mexican, he probably
cannot afford to vacation in the US anyway.
After a visa application is approved, then the tourist has to pay the actual visa fee. The visa fee is based upon reciprocity --e.g. the US looks at
what the tourist's country charges US citizens for a visa. It just so happens that the visa fee for a Mexican to visit the US is "FREE", no charge,
gratis.
There is something more. About 30 countries in the world are on a visa waiver program with the US. Tourists from those countries do not need a visa --
nor do they pay any fee. In order to get on the visa waiver program, a country must meet various security and other requirements, such as enhanced law
enforcement and security-related data sharing with the United States and timely reporting of both blank and issued lost and stolen passports. The
tourists from that country also have to have a good record of not overstaying their visit.
Mexico will never get on the visa waiver program, which would make trips to the US from any Mexican with a passport entirely free. Too many Mexicans
have "screwed the pooch" with the US for that to happen.
[Edited on 7-17-2009 by arrowhead]
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
Somehow the point is being lost here. There is no longer a way for a Mexican to visit Canada or the U.S.A. without a complex VISA process which is
expensive, time consuming and almost prohibitive for most Mexicans. |
It's been that way for Mexicans wanting to visit the US for decades. What is new is the Canadian requirements placed on Mexicans. My understanding
that this was a direct response by the Canadian government to so many Mexicans trying to stay in Canada. If you want to read between the lines, it is
a direct response to the political and economic problems in Mexico. Canada is trying to lock the barn door before the horse is stolen.
[Edited on 7-17-2009 by arrowhead]
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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CaboRon
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| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
Somehow the point is being lost here. There is no longer a way for a Mexican to visit Canada or the U.S.A. without a complex VISA process which is
expensive, time consuming and almost prohibitive for most Mexicans. US citizens and Canadians are still able to travel to Mexico basically with ease.
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And, Your Point Would Be ?
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JESSE
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
For Mexicans, besides the high cost of obtaining a US visa, and now it appears a Canadian visa there is the wait, the uncertainty, and often travel
expenses that may or may not result in a visa. |
Let me do some explaining, as the ignorance level is fairly high here. First of all, the visa application fee the US charges is $131. The US charges
the exact same amount for all visa application fees from anywhere in the world, not just Mexico. The purpose of the fee is to offset the cost of
processing the application. It is not a profit center for the US. $131 is not a lot of money. If it seems like too much to a Mexican, he probably
cannot afford to vacation in the US anyway.
After a visa application is approved, then the tourist has to pay the actual visa fee. The visa fee is based upon reciprocity --e.g. the US looks at
what the tourist's country charges US citizens for a visa. It just so happens that the visa fee for a Mexican to visit the US is "FREE", no charge,
gratis.
There is something more. About 30 countries in the world are on a visa waiver program with the US. Tourists from those countries do not need a visa --
nor do they pay any fee. In order to get on the visa waiver program, a country must meet various security and other requirements, such as enhanced law
enforcement and security-related data sharing with the United States and timely reporting of both blank and issued lost and stolen passports. The
tourists from that country also have to have a good record of not overstaying their visit.
Mexico will never get on the visa waiver program, which would make trips to the US from any Mexican with a passport entirely free. Too many Mexicans
have "screwed the pooch" with the US for that to happen.
[Edited on 7-17-2009 by arrowhead] |
Its not $131.
The US consulate takes the dollar at 17 pesos. If your using pesos, add 40 dollars more.
Add about 30 dollars for your 1-900 call to set up your appointment. (50 pesos per minute)
Add 40 dollars to get your PIN number (again, 50 pesos per minute)
Add 40 dollars for shipping.
Consider losing two full days getting it. This doesnt take into account, traveling to Juarez, Tijuana or Mexico City, Hotel, Food, etc.
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Dave
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I don't think so
| Quote: | Originally posted by redmesa
Somehow the point is being lost here. There is no longer a way for a Mexican to visit Canada or the U.S.A. without a complex VISA
process which is expensive, time consuming and almost prohibitive for most Mexicans. US citizens and Canadians are still able to travel to Mexico
basically with ease. |
It is what it is. I sympathize with those who can't afford it. I'd like to vacation in the South of France but I can't afford that neither.
You seem to promote an implied right to international travel. There ain't one. I know it's not fair...
Life's not fair.
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
| Quote: | Originally posted by jdtrotter
For Mexicans, besides the high cost of obtaining a US visa, and now it appears a Canadian visa there is the wait, the uncertainty, and often travel
expenses that may or may not result in a visa. |
Let me do some explaining, as the ignorance level is fairly high here. |
While I will certainly admit to ignorance about many subjects, what is ignorant about that quote? OK, I forgot an important comma---
But, for many families who travel to the US to shop and or visit family, it IS expensive, there is a wait, it is always uncertain, and for many, there
are travel expenses and at times, for naught.
Even to renew a visa for the US, there is always the stress of will it or will it not be renewed.
Now, unfortunately, it sounds like Canada is following the US and I fully understand the regret expressed here by some Canadians.
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longlegsinlapaz
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Yes or no does not matter. The point is, if you lose your money on a Mexican application, its just 300 dollars or half a weeks worth of work for
somebody making 600 dollars a week. If your making 1000 pesos a week or its equivalent, 80 dollars. Your losing almost a months worth of work.
3 days vs 30 days is more than a significant difference that cannot be ignored with "drowning on tears" remarks.
An American would have to lose 2,400 dollars on an application in order to understand the economic impact this has on the average Mexican.
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I think that's all pure, self-serving bullcrap. You're taking the lower end of the Mexico economic scale and applying it to all Mexicans crossing the
border. That isn't the case and you gawwdam well know it.
The middle class in Mexico has come alive in huge numbers and have money to function much like her counterparts in the US. I live amongst you folks
and I see little difference in economic levels between myself and the thousands of others who shop at WalMart, Costco and Home Depot. Credit cards
everywhere.
The less fortunate arn't there nor are they at the border.
Don't do this "Poor Mexican" sht with me. My eyes are wide open. |
No, Jesse's correct in his argument; it's not "pure self-serving bullcrap", as you so eloquently put it! The poor is by far the largest economic
level in Baja. I paid the application fees for friends I took up to Long Beach several years ago for a Thanksgiving visit with his sister &
brother-in-law who'd lived in the USA for 15-20 years. My friends applied in Cabo & on the date assigned, we appeared at the US Consulate in TJ.
They had all the required paperwork with them, they were asked for a bank statement....they don't have a bank account because their total combined
earnings was in the $5,000 peso mo. range & there was nothing left to bank at the end of the month. They definitely do not qualify as
middle-class financially. My friends wouldn't qualify for a credit card!
Their visas were denied. They didn't have a bank account & they had family who legally lived in the USA. To the US Consulate that meant they
were making a one-way trip with no intentions of returning & that's what they were told in no uncertain terms!
I hadn't just driven two days to turn around & drive back straight to La Paz & TJ is not my idea of a fun city to spend time in. I was
furious at the rude & totally demeaning treatment they'd received from representatives of MY government! I took their denied
paperwork inside (an area they were denied admittance!) & talked with Consulate personnel who stood by the decision of the original screener
outside. I moved up the chain of command & eventually spoke with someone who believed me when I said I'd accept total responsibility & swore
that they'd be returning to BCS with me in two weeks. They initially offered to grant the couple visas for one week. I said that
wasn't fair, they'd had to pay an annual visa fee & could only use it for one week?! It took me several hours, but by the time I left, I had
visas in hand authorizing them to enter the US through December. We did return as promised & we even went back up to spend Christmas with their
family. Everyone that went North returned South!
So not everyone that applies for a visa is well-to-do, nor going to spendy tourist theme parks, or staying in expensive hotels....or even Motel-6!
Some are simply very-low income folks who have family there legally & want to see their family, see their homes, experience for a short time what
a little piece of the US is like, see a "real" shopping mall that goes on for block after block & has thousands of stores in it. To visit home
garden stores & discover different plants than they've ever seen. To experience food they'd never get a chance to eat at home. To visit fabric
stores & see all the different fabrics that aren't available in their area. They were in awe of virtually everything! The sheer immensity of
everything, the myriad of options available in grocery & department stores, the traffic, the heights of buildings!
Being there to see the looks on their faces, to share their amazement & their joy was something I wouldn't have missed for the world!
The processes & inequities between obtaining visas in the two countries are worlds apart. When I applied for my FM3 at the Mexican Consulate in
Portland, OR, I was treated courteously & respectfully, I left feeling like they truly wanted me to come & enjoy their country! That feeling
was NOT evident at the US Consulate in TJ.
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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Its not $131.
The US consulate takes the dollar at 17 pesos. If your using pesos, add 40 dollars more.
Add about 30 dollars for your 1-900 call to set up your appointment. (50 pesos per minute)
Add 40 dollars to get your PIN number (again, 50 pesos per minute)
Add 40 dollars for shipping.
Consider losing two full days getting it. This doesnt take into account, traveling to Juarez, Tijuana or Mexico City, Hotel, Food, etc.
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Oh come on Jesse. That is totally bogus argument. If you lived in a city that had a US Consulate, the cost would be $131, because you would stop at
the money exchange on the way to your appointment and exchange pesos at the market rate. All of the rest of your "expenses" would not apply. If I
lived in Montana and needed to go get a Mexican visa, I would have to travel through two states to a consulate and stay overnight at my expense, too.
You cannot use where you choose to live as a reason to complain about your costs.
Travel is expensive, everywhere you go. What about those sneaky airport exit fees in Mexico? What about the 15% VAT in Mexico on the mainland? Travel
is not cheap. If you don't have $131, you can't go very far anyway. By the way, you can make an appointment at the TJ consulate for free on the
internet and even fill in the visa application on the internet.
Here's what one of your paisano's said about the whole thing in Frontera. This is one Mexican who has his facts:
| Quote: |
jesuspmoreno
Una cosa es soberania y otra diferente es abuso.
Yo viaje y tengo algunos familiares legales en Canada y me han comentado como la gente tanto legal como ilegal ah abusado de los beneficios y apoyos
Canadienses, sobre todo en materia de seguridad social.
Esta medida de Canada ya se habia tardado y asi pasara conforme se vaya abusando de otros paises.
El tema es complejo, es culpa tanto de nosotros como mexicanos, como del gobierno.
Del gobierno por tener estructuras que son deficientes y que motivan a la migracion y nosotros como mexicanos porque siempre estamos buscando el lado
facil de las cosas, el lado chueco para hacerlo mejor, mas rapido o mas economico.
Es como el ejemplo tipico de la gente que va a San Diego a tener sus hijos alla de manera gratis, con tal de hacerlos ciudadanos americanos... ahhh
pero no desean invertir sino que ademas!!! les salga gratis.
Es por ello que cada pais y mas ante un escenario de crisis mundial, es totalmente razonable de proteger a sus propios ciudadanos y cuidar sus
intereses.
Concluyo comentando que es una verguenza la reaccion del gobierno Mexicano, de "vengarse" pidiendo a los funcionarios canadienses Visa, y espero...
espero que no lo hagan a los turistas canadienses... eso seria una tonteria.
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http://www.frontera.info/EdicionEnLinea/Notas/Nacional/16072...
The bottom line is like I said before, too many Mexicans have abused the system. Now they all have to pay.
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
The processes & inequities between obtaining visas in the two countries are worlds apart. When I applied for my FM3 at the Mexican Consulate in
Portland, OR, I was treated courteously & respectfully, I left feeling like they truly wanted me to come & enjoy their country! That feeling
was NOT evident at the US Consulate in TJ. |
I guarantee you that when you applied for your FM3 in Portland if you told the consular officer you had no bank accounts, your FM3 would have been
summarily denied. The US consulates' requirements are no different than Mexico when it comes to that.
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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longlegsinlapaz
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
Its not $131.
The US consulate takes the dollar at 17 pesos. If your using pesos, add 40 dollars more.
Add about 30 dollars for your 1-900 call to set up your appointment. (50 pesos per minute)
Add 40 dollars to get your PIN number (again, 50 pesos per minute)
Add 40 dollars for shipping.
Consider losing two full days getting it. This doesnt take into account, traveling to Juarez, Tijuana or Mexico City, Hotel, Food, etc.
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And those who don't hold a current Mexican passport have to get one before they can apply for a visa. Not absolutely positive, but it seems like that
was in the $2,000 peso range per, several years ago.
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DENNIS
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MEXICO SLAPS VISA REQUIRMENTS ON CANADA DIPLOMATS
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2009/07/16/cannon-me...
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longlegsinlapaz
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
The processes & inequities between obtaining visas in the two countries are worlds apart. When I applied for my FM3 at the Mexican Consulate in
Portland, OR, I was treated courteously & respectfully, I left feeling like they truly wanted me to come & enjoy their country! That feeling
was NOT evident at the US Consulate in TJ. |
I guarantee you that when you applied for your FM3 in Portland if you told the consular officer you had no bank accounts, your FM3 would have been
summarily denied. The US consulates' requirements are no different than Mexico when it comes to that. |
True....but then I was applying for a resident visa, not a short-term tourist visa to visit family.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by longlegsinlapaz
And those who don't hold a current Mexican passport have to get one before they can apply for a visa. Not absolutely positive, but it seems like that
was in the $2,000 peso range per, several years ago. |
Who do they have to blame for that?
Seems like it all comes down to one basic fact....either you can afford to travel or you can't.
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DianaT
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
I guarantee you that when you applied for your FM3 in Portland if you told the consular officer you had no bank accounts, your FM3 would have been
summarily denied. The US consulates' requirements are no different than Mexico when it comes to that. |
Yes, when we applied for our FM3s, we had to show bank statements----but in the past, we were NEVER asked for any such thing when just travelling in
Mexico---even when we entered from the southern most border.
FMTs are a VERY simple procedure---except the extra dog papers they wanted at the southern border.
[Edited on 7-17-2009 by jdtrotter]
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Dave
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More than that
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Seems like it all comes down to one basic fact....either you can afford to travel or you can't. |
It also has a wee bit to do with nationality.
Then again, I wouldn't want to travel anywhere I didn't feel welcome.
Maybe all Mexicans should boycott travel to the U.S. and Canada. 
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norte
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Oh good. then I can park a lot closer at Wallymart
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Dave
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Great!
| Quote: | Originally posted by morgaine7
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
You seem to promote an implied right to international travel. There ain't one. I know it's not fair... |
Right? International travel should be an obligation.
Kate |
Send me a check.
Warning: I travel first class.
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fishbuck
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My guess is that if it was too easy for Mexican people to enter either the US or Canada they simply would not leave.
I really don't think you will have that problem with Canadians or US citizens entering Mexico. They will want to return home and will.
"A ship in harbor is safe, but that is not what ships are built for." J. A. Shedd.
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. – Albert Einstein
"Life's a Beach... and then you Fly!" Fishbuck
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
Then again, I wouldn't want to travel anywhere I didn't feel welcome.
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That would be about half the cities in the US.
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Dave
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Not even close
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
Then again, I wouldn't want to travel anywhere I didn't feel welcome.
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That would be about half the cities in the US. |
Been to way less than half.
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