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Woooosh
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It's very sad the family was targeted, but not surprising. Many of the "corrupt" in Mexico are now claiming to be extortion victims themselves-
"Take our money and do what we tell you- or your family dies". What would you do faced with that type of threat? You take the money, you do their
work and you pray someone else takes the people who threaten you down soon.
\"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing\"
1961- JFK to Canadian parliament (Edmund Burke)
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k-rico
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Can't tell the players without a scorecard.
More about La Familia Michoacana - a snippet from a report.
the group is a powerful criminal organization able and willing to conduct attacks that stand out for their brazenness and gravity even by Mexico’s
standards.
LFM stands out among the various drug cartels that operate throughout Mexico for several reasons. Unlike other cartels that have always been focused
on drug trafficking, LFM first arose in Michoacan several years ago as a vigilante response to kidnappers and drug gangs — particularly those that
produced and trafficked methamphetamines — that operated in the state. With banners and advertisements in local newspapers, LFM made its anti-crime
message well known — along with its willingness to use extreme violence against suspected kidnappers, drug traffickers, and other criminals.
Before long, however, LFM members were themselves accused of conducting the very crimes they had opposed, including kidnapping for ransom, cocaine and
marijuana trafficking, and eventually, methamphetamine production. Currently, the group is the largest and most powerful criminal organization in
Michoacan — a largely rural state located on Mexico’s southeastern Pacific coast — and maintains a significant presence in several surrounding states.
The extent to which has succeeded in corrupting public officials across Michoacan testifies to the depth of its involvement in the state.
Beyond its vigilante origins, LFM has also set itself apart from other criminal groups in Mexico based on its almost cult-like ideological and
cultural principles. LFM leaders are known to distribute documents to the group’s members that include codes of conduct, as well as pseudoreligious
quotations from a man known as “El Mas Loco” (“the craziest one”), who appears to serve as a sort of inspirational leader for the group.
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wessongroup
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
I don't know the exact number, but the point is that it's a very small percent. |
got it
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oldlady
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| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
It won't work because there will always be somebody else to fill the void. As long as 1% of the population controls 90% of the wealth, the country
will be rife with corruption and there will be no shortage of desperate people to do the dirty work of the cartels. The only way out of this is to
create an economy that provides opportunities for people to pull themselves out of poverty. |
I assume that by the void you mean the supplier to the market. If that's the case, I think you are spot on. As long as there is a market someone
will supply it. The cartels are in a fierce battle for market share. The market is overwhelmingly in the US. I'd be tempted to lay off
them....completely. Just don't hurt people who don't participate in the market. How they get the crap to their primary market is their issue and the
US's. No help, no hindrance.
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wessongroup
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mexicorn
| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
After an hour of reading about La Familia Michoacana I better understand the reasons behind the drug war and think the rise of this organization is
the spark that lit Calderon's fire.
Their blatant and brutal socio-political engineering in the state of Michoacan, where Calderon is from BTW, is truly dangerous to the republic. Much
more so than old fashioned narcos. And their specialty is methamphetamine, the cruelest of addictive drugs. They are smart enough to prohibit its use
by their members and within the communities they control.
Perhaps what I thought to be hyperbole about the possibilty of a "failed state" is real if their ideas spread to other states.
My position to stop the war and let the drugs flow is changing.
Grrrrrr
P.S. For the life of me I don't understand why the handful of chemical companies in the world that manufacture ephedra which is necessary for meth
production aren't shut down. Well I do understand, cold medicine is big business, but it comes with a heavy price. Stuffed up noses, how horrible.
[Edited on 12-23-2009 by k-rico] |
If thats the case what do you expect us Americans to stuff up our collective noses, Slam in our veins and fill our lungs with?
Are you nuts. Drugs are Mexicos No. 1 GNP! |
both on target
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k-rico
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
It won't work because there will always be somebody else to fill the void. As long as 1% of the population controls 90% of the wealth, the country
will be rife with corruption and there will be no shortage of desperate people to do the dirty work of the cartels. The only way out of this is to
create an economy that provides opportunities for people to pull themselves out of poverty. |
I assume that by the void you mean the supplier to the market. If that's the case, I think you are spot on. As long as there is a market someone
will supply it. The cartels are in a fierce battle for market share. The market is overwhelmingly in the US. I'd be tempted to lay off
them....completely. Just don't hurt people who don't participate in the market. How they get the crap to their primary market is their issue and the
US's. No help, no hindrance. |
Yes, except the profits from the drug trade are being used to gain control of the government elected by the people, blatantly and violently in
Michoacan. At first glance that seems to be a dangerous development. These guys are way too violent. Benevolent dictators I think not.
[Edited on 12-23-2009 by k-rico]
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oldlady
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
Yes, except the profits from the drug trade are being used to gain control of the government elected by the people, blatantly and violently in
Michoacan. At first glance that seems to be a dangerous development. These guys are way too violent. Benevolent dictators I think not.
[Edited on 12-23-2009 by k-rico] |
I realize that. But, why? I'm basing on the assumption (and I know it may be a big one and it may be wrong) that their motivation is fundamentally
money much more than power per se. The desire to control a government may be born out of the need for a place to operate thier business. Yep,
manufacture and distribute. I am theorizing that if the government didn't get in the way of their business they wouldn't give a twit about who was
running the country or a state. Drugs are a business because there is a market.
A family was just wiped out, for what? The market still exists, there's still someone in the US who wants to use drugs and there will always be
someone to get it to them.
In some ways Mexico may have allowed itself to be used by the US as sort of a first line market regulator.
Hey....I know this all may sound completely nuts...in my case I s'pose it wouldn't be the first time.
[Edited on 12-23-2009 by oldlady]
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DENNIS
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A large hope at this point is that they continue to fight among themselves. If their differences are resolved, they would join and with their
extensive wealth be able to co-opt the disenfranchised in their fight against the government. Then...the big one will be on.
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oldlady
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One could argue the inevitability of that premise in any country?
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Bajahowodd
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Calderon is like a guy not wearing netting, who swats at a hornet's nest. I've read with interest, all the posts on this thread. In my opinion, this
mess is destined to continue. Oldlady is correct that despite the cult-like overtones, of the one cartel, it is really about the money. It would be
prudent for the government to dial it back a bit and let the cartels fight amongst themselves. Ultimately, decimated cartels will likely call a truce
and work as one. When the inter-cartel strife has diminished, one could posit that then would be the propitious time for the government to ramp up
their efforts. However, time is not on Calderon's side. He has a single six year term that began in 2006. Remembering that it was a greatly contested
election, it wouldn't take much of a crystal ball to predict that the Mexican left should be able to prevail in the next election.
One observation that can be made about winning contested elections and governing without majority support would be a parallel to GWB in the US. Bush
barely squeeked into office and immediately began acting as if he had a mandate. For Bush, it worked. Mexican culture and society are different.
Calderon thought he could be GWB, but can't pull it off. Frankly, I don't foresee much changing in this situation until after the next presidential
election.
And does anyone think much can be done, if anything, to diminish demand for drugs?
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k-rico
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re: controlling the government
"I realize that. But, why?"
Oh, I dunno, how about that means they control PEMEX.
Maybe they have ideologies.
Why do rich people want to control the government? - ask your state senator
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Dave
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
In some ways Mexico may have allowed itself to be used by the US as sort of a first line market regulator.
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That's certainly what it's become but I doubt planned. Why would the U.S. trade Colombia for Mexico? Makes no sense to move your dealer next door.
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JESSE
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This war on drugs is the result of decades of injustice and shutting the door on millions while a few families get rich. It isn't just about money,
theres a certain anger, a certain wish to get even or back at the power brokers in this nation. many narcos work for little money, they seem in my
opinion, to be willing to do almost anything in order to get a taste of power, of control over their lives.
I blame directly the Carlos Slim's of Mexico as well as the politicians from all parties for this.
They have taken the people of Mexico to a point where they don't give a damn anymore because they have nothing to lose. And they are finding crime in
the drug business, as the perfect way to get payback.
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DENNIS
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
And does anyone think much can be done, if anything, to diminish demand for drugs? |
Hermetically seal the ports and border. That would be a start. Legalization is such a worn out issue but, that would also help. The cartels just have
to be denied their market.
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oldlady
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I don't know very much about the drug business, Dave....I thought Colombia was primarily manufacturer with some distribution and that Mexico was the
opposite, primarily distribution. So the "dealer" in my scenario would be a combination of both.
As for why the US would trade....the market will go for the best price/performer...if by US you mean the government I'm not sure they have sufficient
control of the market components to make a "trade". These guys ain't GM and Chrysler.
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by k-rico
| Quote: | Originally posted by oldlady
| Quote: | Originally posted by monoloco
It won't work because there will always be somebody else to fill the void. As long as 1% of the population controls 90% of the wealth, the country
will be rife with corruption and there will be no shortage of desperate people to do the dirty work of the cartels. The only way out of this is to
create an economy that provides opportunities for people to pull themselves out of poverty. |
I assume that by the void you mean the supplier to the market. If that's the case, I think you are spot on. As long as there is a market someone
will supply it. The cartels are in a fierce battle for market share. The market is overwhelmingly in the US. I'd be tempted to lay off
them....completely. Just don't hurt people who don't participate in the market. How they get the crap to their primary market is their issue and the
US's. No help, no hindrance. |
Yes, except the profits from the drug trade are being used to gain control of the government elected by the people, blatantly and violently in
Michoacan. At first glance that seems to be a dangerous development. These guys are way too violent. Benevolent dictators I think not.
[Edited on 12-23-2009 by k-rico] |
I think that they control more than just the government of Michoacan, a
lot of people down here think they control the government of BCS. I am sure that their tentacles extend deeper than most of us realize. They have been
building their network for a very long time.
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Dave
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ABSOLUTELY
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
And does anyone think much can be done, if anything, to diminish demand for drugs? |
Harsh penalties--strict enforcement.
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JESSE
This war on drugs is the result of decades of injustice and shutting the door on millions while a few families get rich. It isn't just about money,
theres a certain anger, a certain wish to get even or back at the power brokers in this nation. many narcos work for little money, they seem in my
opinion, to be willing to do almost anything in order to get a taste of power, of control over their lives.
I blame directly the Carlos Slim's of Mexico as well as the politicians from all parties for this.
They have taken the people of Mexico to a point where they don't give a damn anymore because they have nothing to lose. And they are finding crime in
the drug business, as the perfect way to get payback. |
Exactly, the number of Mexican billionaires went from
2 to 24 under the Salinas regime while the actual wages of the average citizen declined. The net worth of Mexico's billionaires soared from 4% of GDP
in 2000 to 6% in 2006.
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arrowhead
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
And does anyone think much can be done, if anything, to diminish demand for drugs? |
Harsh penalties--strict enforcement. |
Well, I think a better way to go is to cut demand for drugs. Instead of giving billions to Mexico for drug intervention, why not just spend it on a
domestic program to teach people against the use of drugs? Remember how you cannot watch TV for more than 5 minutes without a political ad right
before the presidential elections? The media is totally saturated with such ads. It is impossible to avoid them.
Why not just saturate the US with anti-drug messages in every form of media we have? Make people so sick of hearing about it that they will avoid
drugs just in the hope the ads would stop. Besides that, it is entirely domestic spending, not foreign aid.
No soy por ni contra apatía.
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monoloco
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
And does anyone think much can be done, if anything, to diminish demand for drugs? |
Harsh penalties--strict enforcement. |
We tried that, it was called mandatory minimum sentencing. It
succeeded in filling our prisons with millions of drug offenders costing the taxpayer billions of dollars but did nothing to reduce the amount of
drugs on the street. The best indicator of supply is price and the price of cocaine is lower now than it was in the 70's.
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