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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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I'm still wondering how he's selling property inside the Federal Zone, within 65 feet of mean high tide. His claim is that the property begins at 25
feet off the mark.
Share some insight on that, Robert? Thank you.
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Sonora Wind
Nomad
Posts: 228
Registered: 9-25-2003
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Dennis
I think what Robert was saying was, the land in Question was 25 feet in the air/above sea level/higher than the mean high tide. Not how far from the
shores edge. However I'm almost always wrong about almost everthing most of the time.
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
You say you have "title". "Titled" ejido land is still ejido land. Ejidos are community land holdings, where nobody owns a specific parcel. Since
1992, ejidos had the ability to divide up their land into individual a parcels. These parcels are "titled" land, but they are still ejido land. That
means they can only be sold to another ejidatario. In order to sell the land to a foreigner, there is an additional process that has to occur to
convert the land to "Domino Pleno." This conversion process to "Domino Pleno" is what requires the approval of the majority of ejidatarios, which you
mentioned above.
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Arrowhead,
Thanks for that. The privatization process is more complicated than I knew.
I've been interested in the Los Cerritos property a bit south of Todos Santos for quite some time but have always been hesitant because of its Ejido
status. Now I know more. Your post caused me to search upon "Dominio Pleno" and I found this:
"Dominio Pleno". Once the agrarian authorities have relinquished their controls over certain agrarian controlled property, they issue a
declaration (certificate) of "Dominio Pleno" and thusly the property becomes "Private Property". This "Dominio Pleno" refers to full control by the
owner and subject to the agrarian regulations, programs or authority.
http://www.mexicolaw.com/LawInfo02.htm
about half way down the page.
The last sentence confuses me. I don't understand the implications of "subject to the agrarian regulations, programs or authority".
It would make more sense if it read "not subject to the agrarian regulations, programs or authority".
[Edited on 1-29-2010 by k-rico]
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sonora Wind
I think what Robert was saying was, the land in Question was 25 feet in the air/above sea level/higher than the mean high tide. Not how far from the
shores edge. However I'm almost always wrong about almost everthing most of the time. |
Yeah....That might be what he meant although, I think the required twenty meter distance is measured on a horizontal plane.
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Donjulio
Nomad
Posts: 376
Registered: 5-19-2009
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Even if he was Mexican and owned it outright, if there are more than 5 lots then it is not considered Rustica and therefore has to be legally
permitted and subdivided in order to sell it and transfer title. There is no way around that unless you get really creative and sell shares in the
corporation.
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Bajahowodd
Elite Nomad
Posts: 9274
Registered: 12-15-2008
Location: Disneyland Adjacent and anywhere in Baja
Member Is Offline
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I hope everyone had fun with this exercise. I chose not to get involved after checking the linked web page yesterday and seeing the photos of
"amenities" that were, in some cases, hour(s) from the subject property. That level of disingenuousness up front told me not to waste any of my time.
But it has been fun reading all the posts.
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Donjulio
Nomad
Posts: 376
Registered: 5-19-2009
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I hope everyone had fun with this exercise. I chose not to get involved after checking the linked web page yesterday and seeing the photos of
"amenities" that were, in some cases, hour(s) from the subject property. That level of disingenuousness up front told me not to waste any of my time.
But it has been fun reading all the posts.
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In all fairness I checked out his ad and his website and his numbers in CA. The captions for the amenities, such as WalMart etc said where they were
and didnt imply they were near the property. It even gives distances.
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irenemm
Senior Nomad
Posts: 623
Registered: 7-16-2009
Location: vicente guerrero, baja
Member Is Offline
Mood: relaxed
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Robert
did you have a blond girl selling these lots before. she lived just north of camalu?
I don't remember her name that was a couple years ago.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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I think this is who Robert works for...or is:
http://www.bajaforme.com/SiteMap.html
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Donjulio
Nomad
Posts: 376
Registered: 5-19-2009
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How come everything says lease here?
http://www.bajaforme.com/Paradise_Cove_Baja/page_2090341.htm...
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irenemm
Senior Nomad
Posts: 623
Registered: 7-16-2009
Location: vicente guerrero, baja
Member Is Offline
Mood: relaxed
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Robert are you the guy from spain or south america via mexicali?
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BajaWarrior
Super Nomad
Posts: 2307
Registered: 9-27-2006
Location: Mission Bay, San Diego. Playa Hermosa, San Felipe.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Anxious to get south
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Bump for I'm interested in some information...
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaWarrior
What type of improvements are allowed on each lot? Patio covers? Enclosed Patios/Rooms? Garages? How about ATV use inside the campo? On the beach? Is
water included? Does each Tenant need to install a water tank?
Currently are there any trailers set yet? |
Haven't had a bad trip yet....
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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I think we've lost him.
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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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Sorry, Just got back from the Beach
Hola,
Your incorrect about individual ownership of land in an Ejido. "Ther Certificado" is the form of individual ownership which an individual Ejido
memeber holds. The Certificado can only be officially sold or transferred to another Ejido memeber.
The exception to this rule is that any Mexican citizen who decides to buy a Certificado parcel of Ejido land, can petition to become a "Freind of
The Ejido" after 1 year of the purchase. This is not the same thing as a being memeber of the Ejidotaria, and the new "Freind" has no voting
priveledges within the Ejido.
I know of an American citizen, who obtained their Mexican Citizenship, then purchased a Certificado land, then 1 year later, became a freind of the
Ejido! All very legal and above board.
The Ejido member who converted the property from Certificado to Titulo status received approval from the Ejido Members (ejidatarios) for the issuance
of private title, and the seperation from the Ejido.
All Ejido members were offered the right to purchase said property for the mandatory 30 day period (with posting of said notice in the Ejido's
office), at our purchase price.
Also, many individuals who purchase property in Baja (former Ejido land) are not aware that you also need he following:
The refusal of the right to purchase said property for the mandatory 30 day period by The State of Baja, properly formated.
The refusal of the right to purchase said property for the mandatory 30 day period by The Federal Government, properly formated.
A wonderful resource for these formats is available from First American Title Insurance Offices, and their approved Abogado's, who process FA business
in Mexico.
Many individuals actually get the first part right, however they neglect to obtain all three releases. If you have titled property with any Ejido's
involved in the past, you may want to make sure you have all three releases, or it is quite possible that the State or Federal government could
exersize their rights to purchase former Ejido land, even though the Ejidotaria, or it's individual members, can no longer exersize any control over
the property itself.
Your good, I'll grant you that, but the International Division of First American Title Insurance has some real pros working for them.
Thanks for your continued input. Robert
| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
| Quote: | Originally posted by rjlaszlo
Hola,
Property is held in an SAdeCV corporation, CEO is yours truly.
Property has a private title, with First American Title Insurance,
The only way you can issue a posession that will be accepted by the Mexican Government for "Normalization" is with the entire parcel within which the
individual lots are located is free and clear of all encumbrances, and that the majority of the individual lot owners request that this process
proceed. |
That's a nice start Robert, you answered my question #1, and ignored the other eight questions. But you've already said enough for me to figure out
what you have. Let me explain it to you, and the rest, since you seem to have trouble making an elegant explanation of what you have.
You say you have "title". "Titled" ejido land is still ejido land. Ejidos are community land holdings, where nobody owns a specific parcel. Since
1992, ejidos had the ability to divide up their land into individual a parcels. These parcels are "titled" land, but they are still ejido land. That
means they can only be sold to another ejidatario. In order to sell the land to a foreigner, there is an additional process that has to occur to
convert the land to "Domino Pleno." This conversion process to "Domino Pleno" is what requires the approval of the majority of ejidatarios, which you
mentioned above.
So, what you are saying, or really NOT saying, is that the you do not have the right to sell us gringos the land you are advertising. If you are an
ejidatario you can lease it to us, but not sell it to us. In fact, you have no way to guarantee that the ejidatarios would ever approve of changing
the status of the land to "Domino Pleno." By the way, that 10-year maximum lease term for leases in Mexico is different for ejidos. An ejido can lease
it's land for 30 years. |
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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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In Baja!
Hola,
Nope, just working this weekend. Left Friday morning for Baja at 3:00 am, arrived on the beach at 2:00 pm after doing some business in Ensenada.
Worked Friday afternoon, Saturday, Sunday and Monday. Left Monday night at 6:00 pm, got home in Ventura County at 2:00 am. Good thing I'm only 52, or
the work load would kill me! Robert
| Quote: | Originally posted by rjlaszlo
Hola,
Your incorrect about individual ownership of land in an Ejido. "Ther Certificado" is the form of individual ownership which an individual Ejido
memeber holds. The Certificado can only be officially sold or transferred to another Ejido memeber.
The exception to this rule is that any Mexican citizen who decides to buy a Certificado parcel of Ejido land, can petition to become a "Freind of
The Ejido" after 1 year of the purchase. This is not the same thing as a being memeber of the Ejidotaria, and the new "Freind" has no voting
priveledges within the Ejido.
I know of an American citizen, who obtained their Mexican Citizenship, then purchased a Certificado land, then 1 year later, became a freind of the
Ejido! All very legal and above board.
The Ejido member who converted the property from Certificado to Titulo status received approval from the Ejido Members (ejidatarios) for the issuance
of private title, and the seperation from the Ejido.
All Ejido members were offered the right to purchase said property for the mandatory 30 day period (with posting of said notice in the Ejido's
office), at our purchase price.
Also, many individuals who purchase property in Baja (former Ejido land) are not aware that you also need he following:
The refusal of the right to purchase said property for the mandatory 30 day period by The State of Baja, properly formated.
The refusal of the right to purchase said property for the mandatory 30 day period by The Federal Government, properly formated.
A wonderful resource for these formats is available from First American Title Insurance Offices, and their approved Abogado's, who process FA business
in Mexico.
Many individuals actually get the first part right, however they neglect to obtain all three releases. If you have titled property with any Ejido's
involved in the past, you may want to make sure you have all three releases, or it is quite possible that the State or Federal government could
exersize their rights to purchase former Ejido land, even though the Ejidotaria, or it's individual members, can no longer exersize any control over
the property itself.
Your good, I'll grant you that, but the International Division of First American Title Insurance has some real pros working for them.
Thanks for your continued input. Robert
| Quote: | Originally posted by arrowhead
| Quote: | Originally posted by rjlaszlo
Hola,
Property is held in an SAdeCV corporation, CEO is yours truly.
Property has a private title, with First American Title Insurance,
The only way you can issue a posession that will be accepted by the Mexican Government for "Normalization" is with the entire parcel within which the
individual lots are located is free and clear of all encumbrances, and that the majority of the individual lot owners request that this process
proceed. |
That's a nice start Robert, you answered my question #1, and ignored the other eight questions. But you've already said enough for me to figure out
what you have. Let me explain it to you, and the rest, since you seem to have trouble making an elegant explanation of what you have.
You say you have "title". "Titled" ejido land is still ejido land. Ejidos are community land holdings, where nobody owns a specific parcel. Since
1992, ejidos had the ability to divide up their land into individual a parcels. These parcels are "titled" land, but they are still ejido land. That
means they can only be sold to another ejidatario. In order to sell the land to a foreigner, there is an additional process that has to occur to
convert the land to "Domino Pleno." This conversion process to "Domino Pleno" is what requires the approval of the majority of ejidatarios, which you
mentioned above.
So, what you are saying, or really NOT saying, is that the you do not have the right to sell us gringos the land you are advertising. If you are an
ejidatario you can lease it to us, but not sell it to us. In fact, you have no way to guarantee that the ejidatarios would ever approve of changing
the status of the land to "Domino Pleno." By the way, that 10-year maximum lease term for leases in Mexico is different for ejidos. An ejido can lease
it's land for 30 years. |
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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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Improvements
| Quote: | Hola,
We have CCR's on the type of improvements you can make. Were not overly restrictive, however were looking for a nice feel to the community, with the
scheme running towards the beachfront trailer parks in Southern California in the late 50s, 60s and 70s, befor the beach became the playground for the
rich and famous. Thanks, Robert
quote]Originally posted by BajaWarrior
Bump for I'm interested in some information...
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaWarrior
What type of improvements are allowed on each lot? Patio covers? Enclosed Patios/Rooms? Garages? How about ATV use inside the campo? On the beach? Is
water included? Does each Tenant need to install a water tank?
Currently are there any trailers set yet? |
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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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The Rain In Spain....
| Quote: | Hola,
Your probably thinking of Javier Jimenez. He's rumored to be in Mexicali, and he ran some shady real estate deals in this area for about 2 years. He
ended folding up shop, and leaving in the middle of the night, leaving several buyers in a lurch. I think there are also several realtors who were
owed commissions which were never paid by J.J. I never liked the guy, because he used alot of cheap tactics to intimidate the local population into
signing away their property rights using a "Power of Attorney Format" which was good for him and terrible for his clients. Hope that helps. Robert
quote]Originally posted by irenemm
Robert are you the guy from spain or south america via mexicali? |
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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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Lease Questions
We also lease on monthly and an annual basis. It's more money over a ten year period than buying, and it's really designed for folks who either don't
want the long term commitment, or want to try out the beach before they commit to a purchase. I'm easy and want to earn your business. Thanks, Robert
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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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Our Office
Hola,
Our office was in Camalu on the Highway, then we moved it out to the beach. The lady (blond) helped in the office with translation, and she showed
property from time to time. Very nice lady, a true pleasure to work with. Thanks, Robert
| Quote: | Originally posted by irenemm
Robert
did you have a blond girl selling these lots before. she lived just north of camalu?
I don't remember her name that was a couple years ago. |
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rjlaszlo
Junior Nomad
Posts: 27
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: Camalu
Member Is Offline
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Walmart
Hola,
Yes, all the big box stores are on the main road, in Ensenada, on your way south towards Camalu. I usually shop on my drive down, then drive the 90
minutes south to our property. Thanks, Robert
| Quote: | Originally posted by Donjulio
| Quote: | Originally posted by Bajahowodd
I hope everyone had fun with this exercise. I chose not to get involved after checking the linked web page yesterday and seeing the photos of
"amenities" that were, in some cases, hour(s) from the subject property. That level of disingenuousness up front told me not to waste any of my time.
But it has been fun reading all the posts.
|
In all fairness I checked out his ad and his website and his numbers in CA. The captions for the amenities, such as WalMart etc said where they were
and didnt imply they were near the property. It even gives distances. |
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