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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1626
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
In the meantime, spread the mantra...."Don't go to or through Ciudad Constitución."
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Without four-wheeling I really don't know how to by-pass this town completely. I would love to know of a
way to do it
In Memory of E-57
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Alan
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
In the meantime, spread the mantra...."Don't go to or through Ciudad Constitución."
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Without four-wheeling I really don't know how to by-pass this town completely. I would love to know of a
way to do it |
I know some people have no choice since their life is south, but I'm directing this suggestion to tourists. If they want to be part of an effort to
bring change, don't go there. Go elsewhere.
Solidarity is next to impossible for Americans to achieve. We're so into our own agenda, but a mass reaction is what brought the Toll Road crime
around Rosarito to a halt a few years back and it can happen again in Cd. Const.
Vacation in points north....Mulege, Loreto, etc.
It won't take long for the tourist industry south of Cd. Const. to see the problem and scream for change and, things will change.
Then, the American traveler can sit back proudly and say, "Hey.....we do have a voice."
If you don't want a voice, quit complaining, keep paying and accept humiliation.
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Barry A.
Select Nomad
Posts: 10007
Registered: 11-30-2003
Location: Redding, Northern CA
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Mood: optimistic
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RIGHT ON DENNIS!!!!!!! Barry
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gnukid
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4411
Registered: 7-2-2006
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by Alan
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
In the meantime, spread the mantra...."Don't go to or through Ciudad Constitución."
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Without four-wheeling I really don't know how to by-pass this town completely. I would love to know of a
way to do it |
I know some people have no choice since their life is south, but I'm directing this suggestion to tourists. If they want to be part of an effort to
bring change, don't go there. Go elsewhere.
Solidarity is next to impossible for Americans to achieve. We're so into our own agenda, but a mass reaction is what brought the Toll Road crime
around Rosarito to a halt a few years back and it can happen again in Cd. Const.
Vacation in points north....Mulege, Loreto, etc.
It won't take long for the tourist industry south of Cd. Const. to see the problem and scream for change and, things will change.
Then, the American traveler can sit back proudly and say, "Hey.....we do have a voice."
If you don't want a voice, quit complaining, keep paying and accept humiliation. |
Dennis, many who tranist Baja go south of Cd. Const. so the simple solidarity solution of do not go south won't work.
To speak to the point, though, do not look to anyone but yourselves to solve this issue. Certainly do not look to a politician, each and everyone who
is unfairly targeted can do something, first off, you must not make matters worse for yourself, so, do your best to avoid trouble, drive the speed,
stop at all broken lights and stop signs, use the other streets if you choose, be prepared to be pulled over with proper documentation, wear
seatbelts, and pay attention.
Take pictures of police cars, especially those who target, but do not do it in a way that is obtrusive, take video if you get pulled over but not in a
manner that is threatening or obvious just leave the camera on the seat.
Ask politely for the officer to identify himself and take careful note of any identifying characteristics write it down in private, after-wards take
notes, then simply post your report here, youtube, and post it to other officials and boards with a complete identifying report. Once identified and
especially once identified on video and photo if his/her behavior is unfair then the problem can be discussed, until then it will continue.
It's the same anywhere, you need evidence of the situation and you must clearly identify the criminal behavior and the perpetrator.
One complete video will help massively. Try using your cameras and phones, practice, and see what the limits of the wide angle shot is.
The aforementioned advice holds true, be persistent, polite and patient, the bad guys always fold and the good guys always proceed with confidence.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gnukid
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
I know some people have no choice since their life is south, but I'm directing this suggestion to tourists. |
Dennis, many who tranist Baja go south of Cd. Const. so the simple solidarity solution of do not go south won't work.
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OK....I thought I covered that, but you're right.
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Alan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1626
Registered: 4-6-2005
Location: Yucaipa, CA/La Paz
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I completely agree with you Dennis. I was just hoping you found an alternate route from Loreto to La Paz
In Memory of E-57
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fishabductor
Senior Nomad
Posts: 800
Registered: 5-29-2010
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I've been pulled over 2x in CDC.. Both times for BS things. My mexican wife started asking a bunch of questions..badge #, name, etc. We said lets go
to the station both times...they said adios both times.
I hate CDC anymore. I got to the point where I no longer want to drive Baja. I live in the loscabos area and we just now fly. There is nothing I can't
buy locally that I absolutely need.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Alan
I completely agree with you Dennis. I was just hoping you found an alternate route from Loreto to La Paz |
I thought someone Google Earthed a bypass road around there, or somewhere. I can't remember. It was a while back.
Maybe it was around some military check point.
I'm confused so I'm off to Sharky's.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by fishabductor
There is nothing I can't buy locally that I absolutely need. |
Every now and then, I have a need to go to a real Home Depot. It's like a drug addiction. 
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3494
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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On shakedowns and bluffing
There's some psychology going on here that needs to be addressed.
A shakedown is a numbers game for these cops and it probably beats sitting around bored and poor.
It's also an intimidation game being played. Here's what I plan to do when passing through Constitución and Insurgentes next time.
If I'm pulled over, I"ll get out with a camera and a note pad. If I'm traveling with someone, they'll get out also to ''witness'' the situation.
I'll ask the cop if I can take his picture. I expect him to say no and I"ll respect his request. I believe I"ve established a psychological
edge in doing this.
I'll then ask for his name and start writing in my note pad a description of the scene.
I have a throw-away license in case he wants it but I have leverage there too. Any threat to keep my license is wasted on me.
I speak enough Spanish to hold my own though I'm not fluent and will definitely hold my own in turning down any request for paying a ''fine'' on the
spot -- and I'm willing to go to the station to discuss things.
I'm not really wanting to go to the station but want to be on my way. My negotiating position will always be polite but insistent (that I have
done nothing wrong), and I will show respect and courtesy to any cop in a traffic situation -- even if he gets frustrated (because I'm not cooperating
and giving him money).
I don't believe the cop wants to go to the station and I believe that I can call the bluff.
I know of at least 2 gringas in BCS who believe the hysterical approach works -- they will try to intimidate and insult cops in a shakedown situation
and they might be on to something here. Personally, I am not interested in a mano-a-mano match with someone wearing a badge and gun.
A badge and gun don't intimidate me and I know that that is what the cop is trying to do. My goal is to show that cop I'm not intimidated and not
going to pay him anything. It's possible for me to do this in a non-threatening manner.
Cops will give up in a short period of time. You just have to be patient -- no need for the cop to lose face. They'll figure it out in no time,
and move on to the next ''victim.''
Smile, have a good time. Don't take things so seriously or personally.
If you are intimidated by cops and red/blue lights flashing and the situation scares you, the cop will see it and it'll be difficult to ''bluff'' him.
Just remember -- it's all a bluff.
Any other realistic scenarios can only help.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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Lee knows.
[good to see you, bro]
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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Why would 'we' automatically assume...
| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
Just remember -- it's all a bluff.
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That?
A sworn, armed officer fabricating an infraction in attempt to extort? What's to prevent him from escalating beyond threat to armed
robbery...his conscience? 
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Lee
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3494
Registered: 10-2-2006
Location: High in the Colorado Rockies
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Hang tough. Be firm. Be polite, respectful, and courteous. Don't pay for a shakedown!
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
A sworn, armed officer fabricating an infraction in attempt to extort? What's to prevent him from escalating beyond threat to armed
robbery...his conscience? |
Racism, racial profiling, targeting gringo cars is an emotional issue. Then there's the mordida issue.
Of course there is nothing to prevent a law enforcement officer, who has a badge and gun, from doing anything they want.
I just don't see these guys in that light. And that's not to say this sort of thing doesn't happen from time to time.
All I'm saying is what I ''think'' is happening. These guys are poor and see intimidation as a way of making some money.
It's certainly possible that an insulting and out of control gringo might get into trouble, possibly locked up, etc.
The game here is let's see how many gringoes can be intimidated and hand over a wad of money.
The quicker it's done the sooner the cop can get back to stopping the next gringo.
There are many who believe what the cops are doing is evil, corrupt and lots of moral judgments. I don't see it that way. I don't defend their
actions. I'm on the side of the innocent here.
These cops are unsophisticated and uneducated.
I'm an ex-cop and the qualities that make a good cop, at least in part, is being able to think like the bad guys.
In MX, there's a thing called the ''little lie,'' which to Mexicans, isn't really a lie. Maybe what the Nortes would call a ''white lie.''
At most, these cops are opportunists, petty thiefs. They might think what they're doing is wrong, on some level, but then think that the gringoes
have money and no harm done.
Short of losing face, they, in my very humble opinion, will back down and go to the
next person in line.
There's nothing lost by taking a firm stand and hanging in there with negotiation. It's all negotiable. In a hurry? They want 500 pesos?
Offer 50 pesos.
Impatience isn't going to win this game. I think it's just a game.
There are different levels of negotiators out there. Results may vary.
(Oh and by the way. A cop pulls a gun on me wanting money? He get's my money.)
US Marines: providing enemies of America an opportunity to die for their country since 1775.
What I say before any important decision.
F*ck it.
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desertcpl
Super Nomad
Posts: 2396
Registered: 10-26-2008
Location: yuma,az
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I remember years ago in TJ,, I was pulled over and got the shake down,, I offered the cop Peso's he got mad and said he didnt want any Peso's wanted
usa dollars,, 20 bucks and I was on my way
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BajaNomad
Super Administrator
Posts: 4994
Registered: 8-1-2002
Location: San Diego, CA
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Mood: INTP-A
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
What's to prevent him from escalating beyond threat to armed robbery...his conscience? |
More than
anything - by my experience and observation - is your attitude with him.
Lee's comments on being FIRM, but POLITE (essentially - and also patient), are a common observation of what's worked well for many of
those posting here over the years - including myself.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Lee
My goal is to show that cop I'm not intimidated and not going to pay him anything. It's possible for me to do this in a non-threatening manner.
Cops will give up in a short period of time. You just have to be patient -- no need for the cop to lose face. They'll figure it out in no time, and
move on to the next ''victim.''
Smile, have a good time. Don't take things so seriously or personally.
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Doug
When I was young, I admired clever people. Now that I am old, I admire kind people.
– Rabbi Abraham Joshua Heschel
We know we must go back if we live, and we don`t know why.
– John Steinbeck, Log from the Sea of Cortez
Affordable Domain Name Registration/Management & cPanel Web Hosting:
https://www.regionalinternet.com |
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Dave
Elite Nomad
Posts: 6005
Registered: 11-5-2002
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I see
| Quote: | Originally posted by BajaNomad
| Quote: | Originally posted by Dave
What's to prevent him from escalating beyond threat to armed robbery...his conscience? |
More than
anything - by my experience and observation - is your attitude with him.
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So, as long as the victim is supplicant, he escapes with most of his money.
Victimization...A stellar endorsement of Mexican rule of law.
Just to be clear:
Paying money for trumped up charges is felony extortion...not mordida.
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oladulce
Super Nomad
Posts: 1625
Registered: 5-30-2005
Location: bcs
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I presented the story as another chapter of my experiences as a new resident of Mexico. I thought it was funny that we could frequent the town without
a problem then get pulled over twice within 10 min, plus I figured others would be interested to know that the situation is ongoing in Cd C.
Not meant as a complaint because I didn't expect you guys to fix it. I'd only voice a complaint if I planned to take action to resolve the problem.
We have chosen to live here and Constitución happens to be our nearest big town and where we have to go for the bank, groceries and supplies. It is
what it is. The cops in our small town are members of the same dept as Constitución. We go to the same municipio to pay our taxes, obtain building
permits etc.
This time it was beneficial that the first cop who pulled us over recognized us. Being recognized could just as easily be detrimental in future
encounters if we were to start a local anti-mordida crusade- this area becomes very "small townish" and sometimes people you don't even know can know
all about you. Better to keep a nice, mellow, low profile and be good gringos since we are foreigners.
Right now, getting pulled over for no reason is irritating and a pain in the butt . But If things ever escalate to where the cops begin to accept the
challenge to go down to the station and start falsifying written violations where it's your word against theirs, that will be a different ballgame.
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k-rico
Super Nomad
Posts: 2079
Registered: 7-10-2008
Location: Playas de Tijuana
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Is there a similar organization for Cd. Constitucion as this?
http://www.sindicatura.gob.mx/complaints/index.asp
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BMG
Super Nomad
Posts: 1776
Registered: 6-10-2007
Location: La Paz / Bahia Asunci�n / Away from home
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Want to document a stop?
Here you go. Spy pen.
I think the world is run by C- students.
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
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| Quote: | Originally posted by BMG
Here you go. Spy pen. |
Along that line, here's a bunch of 007 stuff:
http://www.spyemporium.com/
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