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bajajurel
Nomad
Posts: 276
Registered: 6-17-2009
Location: San Diego
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Mood: Fishing for fun
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more pics
bajajurel
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shari
Select Nomad
Posts: 13049
Registered: 3-10-2006
Location: bahia asuncion, baja sur
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Mood: there is no reality except the one contained within us "Herman Hesse"
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Pescador makes some valid points but the cooperativas on the central pacific coast were formed WAAAAY before any biosphere reserve was established
here. The coops have been responsibly managing their resources for 50 years.
Fisheries deals with quotas, regs and enforcement etc. and the coops are responsible for vigilancia(patrolling their area) not the biosphere reserve
people.
The first Governor's Cup fishing tournament in Asuncion targeted Mero as well, yellowtail and calico but the black sea bass was eliminated in the
following years because there just arent many of them around anymore...too scarce to make it a tournament fish so maybe that will happen in Abreojos
too. I have heard similar sentiments about the governers cup tournaments...we'll see what the new governor comes up with!
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snorklebob
Newbie
Posts: 11
Registered: 6-2-2007
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Hi All,
Just wanted to say that I was in the Ensenada fish market 2 weeks age and one of the stalls had several BSB for sale. All were small. Maybe 5 were
under 10lbs with only one in the 20lb range. I had not been there in a couple of years but have seen them on occasion before.
So, they are sold commercially though they may have been bi-catch in a net, but I doubt it as they command a higher price than most fish in the
market.
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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Good to hear that. The people of Ensenada would starve without them.
Most Meros, I suspect, end up on people's walls. Their heads mounted in saloons and coffee shops as conversation pieces.
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BajaBlanca
Select Nomad
Posts: 13237
Registered: 10-28-2008
Location: La Bocana, BCS
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I guess we have an area where the BSB go to reproduce because there are so many huge ones way down, that is the part that concerns me and I wish to
better understand the implications of catching the bigger ones. If, as some say, one day does not really make a dent, that wd be great. My fear is
that these are wonderful fish that will be wiped out. I mean, Jerry's pictures sure make an impact.
Jerry - it is fantastic that you have a marine biologist who may be able to shed some light on this issue. I just want to know if I should defend
this m monster fish or not 
Do you really think the tournaments will end when this governor leaves ? I did not know that .... for the locals, it is a really big event and it is
the only time I ever see the women and kids fishing, which is really neat. And yeah, one lady who was staying here did win the BSB category, altho I
was not here to see that.
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yellowklr
Senior Nomad
Posts: 507
Registered: 4-14-2006
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FYI La Bocana and Abreojos do fish BSB commercially.............I just got back and saw it with my own eyes.............They pangeros tell me they get
good $$$$$ for the fish.
Derek
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BajaBlanca
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Posts: 13237
Registered: 10-28-2008
Location: La Bocana, BCS
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I confirmed this today, Derek !! who would have guessed .... good money is right. I asked where they sell it to and was told it goes to restaurants
south of the border AND they can sell to the states but the size is not too small and not too big (don't remember the exact size allowance - smething
like a range between 40 and 70 lbs.). they have fished it forever but it is not controlled by them, like the abalone and lobster are.
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
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Mood: Want to fish!!!
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There it is! A managed, obviously thriving resource! Thanks yellowklr! Leave the babies, leave the breeders. Sounds like an enforced slot limit to
me. Judging by the pictures posted, it works.
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skipowell
Nomad
Posts: 156
Registered: 11-9-2009
Location: San Diego
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so does does that mean I can eat bsb without feeling guilty
or am I reading what I want to hear?
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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You're reading what you want to hear: the pictures are of breeders.
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
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Mood: Want to fish!!!
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Those are breeders for sure! The very large and small fish should be released! Even as prolific as the calico and sand bass are, I only keep a few 3-5
lb fish. All others get released. Slot limits and size limits will work!
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
Pescador makes some valid points but the cooperativas on the central pacific coast were formed WAAAAY before any biosphere reserve was established
here. The coops have been responsibly managing their resources for 50 years.
Fisheries deals with quotas, regs and enforcement etc. and the coops are responsible for vigilancia(patrolling their area) not the biosphere reserve
people.
The first Governor's Cup fishing tournament in Asuncion targeted Mero as well, yellowtail and calico but the black sea bass was eliminated in the
following years because there just arent many of them around anymore...too scarce to make it a tournament fish so maybe that will happen in Abreojos
too. I have heard similar sentiments about the governers cup tournaments...we'll see what the new governor comes up with! |
As usual my mind works faster than my fingers. No, I did not mean to imply that they worked at the same time, I was just comparing the bio-sphere
regulations to what California has done with the no-fishing zones, which are a complete disaster, but instead worked with the coopertives as well as
the fisheries people in developing regulations that allowed for the continued harvest of fish and resources. So, what they developed is a more fluid
like approach to the regulation and contorl, which means that issues like this are not completely cast in stone and may develop as things change.
The pictures of those big boys hanging there for the Tournament sure speaks volumes.
One of the real problems is that when those fish are hooked at deeper levels in the ocean, they are very difficult to successfully release. It takes
a special rig with a very heavy weight and a non-barbed lip hook to get them back deep enough that their air-bladder will pressurize and go back to
normal size. The Gulf of Mexico fishery has tried venting with a hypodermic needle but the mortality is terrible and most fish die. I now carry one
of those release devices on the boat with me and it works very well, but it has taken me time to get the weights right and the release hook.
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Want to fish!!!
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Pescador, how deep do they have to come from to need the deep release?
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Skipjack Joe
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8088
Registered: 7-12-2004
Location: Bahia Asuncion
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| Quote: | Originally posted by shari
The first Governor's Cup fishing tournament in Asuncion targeted Mero as well, yellowtail and calico but the black sea bass was eliminated in the
following years because there just arent many of them around anymore...too scarce to make it a tournament fish so ...
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On my last trip to Asuncion the spearfishermen we met were real excited about a large Mero they saw at Isla San Roque. They knew where it was and
where it would stay. They wanted to go back and plug him. Unfortunately for them, they didn't bring their wet suits and the water was too cold for
long submersions. Otherwise there would have been a celebration.
The ability to spot and pursue your individual fish is why spearfishing is so much more damaging than hook and line. That, and that catch and release
is not an option for them.
[Edited on 9-23-2010 by Skipjack Joe]
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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| Quote: | Originally posted by bajabass
Pescador, how deep do they have to come from to need the deep release?
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Anything over 60 feet and the bladder will be so swollen up that the fish will be unable to get back down on his own. All groupers and basses have
this problem. Bill Erhardt and I had this discussion a year or so ago on Bajanomads and we both use a heavy lead weight with a non barbed hook in an
upside down manner which allows you to get the fish down to the depth he was originally captured at and with a small shake the fish is free and not
harmed. Venting with a needle has been studied but it is suspected that it leads to a higher rate of mortality.
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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Skipjack, maybe we could start a group that uses underwater paintballs. All the fun, but little or no damage to the fish.
Here is an interesting article about the cooperatives from one reporter's perspective.
http://www.miller-mccune.com/environment/the-success-of-vizc...
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bajabass
Super Nomad
Posts: 2016
Registered: 10-4-2006
Location: La Paz,BCS
Member Is Offline
Mood: Want to fish!!!
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Thanks Pescador! I will be making several runs to La Paz over the next few months. I will try and catch you in San Bruno and take a look at that rig.
I only need a few average fish to keep, and if I'm lucky enough to hook one, I want to let is go in the proper, safest manner! 
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bobjones35
Newbie
Posts: 4
Registered: 1-16-2008
Location: Rancho Palos Verdes, ca
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Black Sea Bass
I had a similar experience over at Catalina Island last week. I freedive spear fish. I dove down to about 40 feet and there were three of them! Big
ones too. People do seem to be respecting the law and leaving them alone. Bob
| Quote: | Originally posted by islandhop
My buddy hands me my new underwater camera that I haven't used yet... We are anchored off San Clemente Isl. Ca. About two weeks ago.. I dive down
to about 40 ' and there to greet me was a monster grouper (bsb) I'm in a hurry trying to take photos with a camera I dont really know how to
use, While this big guy, maybe 150 lbs at least, circles me slowly about 8 ft away. I did manage to get 2 or 3 photos out of focus, with a line
through the middle, otherwise awful photos. 10 or so minutes later I see 2 more bigger guys that swim by very close.. Point is that I have seen
them my last 3 trips out there so I think that they are back in numbers.. They are not afraid of divers .. |
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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This is a great topic and very near to my heart and interest. Most of the Black Sea Bass and Groupers that are hooked in water over 60 feet are not
able to survive if released. They are unable to vent their air bladders which is what allows them to stay at various depths and they suffer from
Barometric Trauma which means their tounge swells up and fills the mouth cavity, their eyes will bug out, and their stomachs and intestines will
sometimes protrude from their anal opening. The method developed for the Florida and Gulf of Mexico fishery was to use a venting tool which is like a
hypodermic needle that allows the gasses trapped in the air bladder to escape and when done properly by a well trained person the survival rates are
medium at best. The Australians developed a system where they use a barbless hook attached to at least a 3 to 5 lb weight that attaches to the mouth
just behind the lip plates but before any bony structure and the fish is lowered to a level where the pressure is sufficient to deflate the air
bladder.
I prefer the weight method and can usually feel the fish starting to struggle as it is lowered to depth and it is shortly therafter that the fish
swims off of his own accord.
Now comes the problem, I have spent a lot of time researching out the methods and developing a system that works. I seriously doubt that any of the
pangueros have any inclination to release any of these fish at all, and would not have the knowledge or equipment even if they were so inclined.
So, Blanca raised a really good point that the Governor's Cup Tournament which is a government give away program as they give much more in prizes and
awards than they take in for entry fees, and was designed by Agundez (the current governor) as a mini-stimulus package for the small towns in the Baja
Peninsula. But it is pretty irresponsible for a tournament to encourage the taking of Mero which take so long to replace and grow back. Yellowtail,
Tuna, and Wahoo are all migratory fish that spread themselves out over the ocean and are less dependent on one small geographical area for their
survival are probably not effected to any large degree by a tournament, but residents like Grouper and Mero are potentially effected to a much more
significant degree.
So, I could care less if they get taken with a rod and reel or a speargun, the end result is pretty much the same.
[Edited on 9-24-2010 by Pescador]
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Cypress
Elite Nomad
Posts: 7641
Registered: 3-12-2006
Location: on the bayou
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Mood: undecided
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Pescador, Thanks for your input. A fisherman speaks. Listen.
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