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torch
Nomad
Posts: 295
Registered: 1-27-2010
Location: O.C. Calif. and BCN
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uphill and on the inside of the curve.
yep thats the way
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PT9Baja
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: 10-24-2010
Location: on the road
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Score races in Baja are only a part of the Baja off road culture. There are several Mexican racing associations , with many races in Baja and on the
mainland. Look up Code off road racing for an example. There are Mexican racing events in all the major cities in Baja. Off road racing is a part of
Baja ,and not a gringo invasion or exploitation. For the most part the Score races and race teams are welcomed by the communities involved and the
people of Baja. They are not going to turn the economy around but can be and often are the best week of the year for tourist based businesses.
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capt. mike
Elite Nomad
Posts: 8085
Registered: 11-26-2002
Location: Bat Cave
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Mood: Sling time!
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news flash...economics IS politics.
the race loops local and alternates with a run all the way south.
the 1000 ain't going away soon and Mexico LOVES it!!
formerly Ordained in Rev. Ewing\'s Church by Mail - busted on tax fraud.......
Now joined L. Ron Hoover\'s church of Appliantology
\"Remember there is a big difference between kneeling down and bending over....\"
www.facebook.com/michael.l.goering |
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wilderone
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3824
Registered: 2-9-2004
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Doesn't have anything to do with politics - just money and egos. The TTs are a substitute for youknowwhat. Any semblance of adult responsibility
and respect is decidedly lacking in Baja SCORE races. This story needs to be in Sports Illustrated - why isn't it? Jenkins should be in jail for
reckless driving and causing great bodily injury. The entire thread should be sent to racing magazines - do they have the integrity to do the right
thing, or just pretend it's all good and justify the glory of winning at any cost? Just children playing with bigger toys.
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rob
Senior Nomad
Posts: 509
Registered: 10-19-2004
Location: Pacific Coast, BCS
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Once the B1000 was probably an exciting event in small rural communities - now with TV and better access to the bright lights, there is a rising local
tide of protest against the collateral damage inflicted by this spectacle. Many Pacific Baja Sur roads, once rural and with little traffic, are now
much busier and are left in a terrible state, inflicting damage on all vehicles who have to use them (the mounds of garbage left by urban spectators
are relatively harmless).
Sal Fish (race owner), charming and smiling, personally promised us that the road would be graded after the 2007 race, and put us in touch with
then-Secretary of Tourism as a backup (Trasviña - now running for mayor of Cabo). After the race, the Secretary wrung his hands and said he could do
nothing. In fairness to him, the road WAS graded - three years later.
A couple of comments to some of the postings:
TW - "The Score offical pre-run speed is 25mph or the posted speed limit and they are warned that the course is open to local traffic except on race
day." This is, of course, a bad joke. We have to put up with 2-3 weeks of pre-runners coming down the course at insane speeds at all hours, plus the
fact that "the course" is the only access for the local communities- the amazing thing is that there are not more fatalities. This year, the race was
cunningly scheduled for the Nov 19th school marching and sports day - this meant that parents of local school kids had to get their children to
mustering points along the the same roads being used by the B1000 as a raceway. Insane.
TW - "I should add that the ranchers probably don't like the pre-running most of all and they don't mind race day, it's just one day." See above.
Gnukid - "The injuries and deaths that occur are tragedies but that's an aspect of the race." I can't think of a polite comment, unless he is
referring to drivers casualties, not collateral injuries.
Bajalou - " . . the locals spent their own money cutting miles of roads for the race to run between canyons". Anyone who did that ín this locality
would be regarded as totalmente loco . . .
DavidK - "Sadly, people are killed and injured by others/ non-racers, all year long... A race is not to blame, poor judgement is." This is the same
argument for legal automatic weapons, and equally fatuous.
Gnukid - "I am for safety and ecology and not the negative aspects of racing, but I am also for the right of people to pursue their passion and dreams
in sports." I think that covers all of the political bases.
capt. mike - "news flash...economics IS politics."
Totally true - my beef is basically that the rural communities bear an unfair share of the economic burden for the B1000 - the money, such as it is,
is made by hotels and bars - the rest of us in this neighborhood just pay. I recommend buying shares in Monroe and Moog . .
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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The local ejidos can refuse to allow the race across their land... and that is why the San Felipe 250 was moved to Ensenada and renamed the Baja 250 a
couple of years ago... All because one ejido said no. Of course, that devistated the economy of San Felipe that year... and perhaps through more
'incentives' that ejido allowed the race to return the next year.
So, what is stopping OTHER ejidos or municipos from saying no to SCORE or controlling which roads are used for the race?
[Edited on 12-29-2010 by David K]
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Curt63
Super Nomad
Posts: 1171
Registered: 3-28-2009
Location: San Diego, Ca.
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Mood: Fish tacos and Tecate
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Wilder, Well said!
Donation site for James Lamb and family
No worries
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ElFaro
Nomad
Posts: 231
Registered: 9-16-2007
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
The local ejidos can refuse to allow the race across their land... and that is why the San Felipe 250 was moved to Ensenada and renamed the Baja 250 a
couple of years ago... All because one ejido said no. Of course, that devistated the economy of San Felipe that year... and perhaps through more
'incentives' that ejido allowed the race to return the next year. |
Can you demonstrate to us a direct correlation between the decision of that ejido and the collapse of the San Felipe economy "a couple years" ago
?...because around that time all of Baja was taking a hit from the US side downturn. You can't make these generalized statements w/o backing them up
with facts.
Can someone (e.g. Don Julio) enlighten us about what was the major cause of the San Felipe economy collapse "a couple years ago" ?
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ElFaro
Nomad
Posts: 231
Registered: 9-16-2007
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David K...I couldn't simply let this pass w/o comment...
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
When people, any people, come to Baja from north of the border for any reason IT IS GOOD FOR BAJA. |
Oh really?...OK let's see...
How about the two girls from East Lake (Chula Vista) who went down to TJ w/ "boyfriends" one of which led them into a house in Playas and they all
wound up shot and killed, rolled up in carpets and stuffed into a SUV parked in a remote ballfield in TJ ?
OR
The American guy who sold all those weapons to that Mexican gang and he delivered to them and the gang killed 19 or 20 members of that family in
Ensenada about 15-20 years ago?
OR
The American guy killed recently in the village next to the Fox Studios who was operating a smuggling ring from there?
OR
The bounty hunters who think they are going down to TJ to bring back Mexicans for unpaid debts.
and I could go on and on...ALL THIS GOOD FOR BAJA?
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
People spend money... gas stations, taco stands, markets, charter boats, tire repairs, bars, restaurants, motels, camp grounds... Where-ever they do
it, spending money in one place spreads the wealth to others. All those businesses hire others or buy products for their business... money keeps
moving from one to another... basic economics. |
This not "basic economics" but DavidK simpleton economics.
I find it interesting and convenient that you left out one tiny little but crucially important element in your "basic economics" lesson to all of
us...you forgot about THE COST OF DOING BUSINESS. Do you have any clue of the cost to do business in Baja? Go ask any of these vendors, small
businesses, ranchers, restaurenteurs, hotel owners. Baja is one of the highest cost states in Mexico to do business. And these costs only ratchet in
one direction...up. You think in your "basic economics" lesson that these costs are minimal to non-existant...you are woefully mistaken. Govt.
permits (local, state, federal), power costs, labor laws, transportation, wholesale costs, to name a few siphon's off most of this "spreads the wealth
to others" you think exists.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
If you want to start a TREE HUGGER 1000 and see if the number of people come to Baja to hug 1000 trees comes anywhere close to what Baja racing
does... that would be GREAT... DO IT! |
I don't have a clue what relevance this has to the discussion...maybe you could simply try to answer some of the questions I posed with some cogent
thoughtfull replies instead of the "stuck pig" approach.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
The off road racing community pumps all sorts of money into Mexico and racers and fans return to Baja the rest of the year to enjoy the other things
there, and to help orphanages, too. |
If you are referring to the orphanage the 100 off-road bikers showed up at (Rho. Santa Marta) after tearing up the beaches in their "Baja Beach Bash"
(see video posted on Nomad a few months back) and "donating" $378...again do you have any clue of the current status of that orphanage? They are
really hurting financially...a lot of donations have dropped off. And do you have any clue what it costs to run an orphanage in Baja? $10,000,
$30,000, $50,000, $75,000 per year ? If those 100 bikers had given $100 each cash I would have been impressed...but $378?...what $3.78 per biker?...a
pack of cigarettes worth each and off we go back to tearing up the beaches...as you say..ah yes freedom.
| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Sadly, people are killed and injured by others/ non-racers, all year long... A race is not to blame, poor judgement is. |
The race is very much partly to blame because of one crucial difference...unlike the vehicle killings and injuries "all year long" because people have
to live and survive...the Baja 1000 race is not a "need" in Baja but a "want" and "thrill" by the weathy Gringos who have regarded Baja as their
"sandbox" these 43 years.
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ElFaro
Nomad
Posts: 231
Registered: 9-16-2007
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Baja 1000 - Everyone Buying Gas
A number of posters to this thread refer to buying gas/diesel locally as part of "spreading the wealth" around. Just focusing on petroleum purchases
only...where do you think your $'s go after Pemex is paid? Remember...Pemex is the Mexican govt. Your money goes to Pemex in Mexico City to pay for
refined petroleum products imported from the US and a host of other things related to providing Mexico with petroleum products.
David K ...here is a homework assignment for you...ask your friend who owns the Pemex station in El Rosario how much of the price of a liter of gas or
diesel he gets to keep? If he has the answer in $US/gal. fine if $Mex/ltr we can convert.
I know for a fact that of the private gas station owners in San Diego that are left they only keep about a penny per gallon. Hard to believe a Pemex
station owner would keep much more than that.
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BajaGeoff
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 1-11-2006
Location: San Diego and Campo Lopez
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Mood: Heading To Baja!!!
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Um.....El Faro....the Baja Beach Bash raised $3,400 dollars....not $378. I shot the video myself and was at the orphanage when the donation was
presented to Bill. Considering how tough a year 2009-10 was economically, I think $3,400 is a nice contribution. The visit also brought a lot of
smiles to the kids and the riders alike, which you can't really put a price tag on.
[Edited on 12-29-2010 by BajaGeoff]
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ElFaro
Nomad
Posts: 231
Registered: 9-16-2007
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BajaGeoff...my apologies...I thought I heard the guy say $378 collected in the video...but $3400 / 100 riders is $34/ea...at least it helped them for
a couple of weeks or so. It would be nice if the riders could give that each month from that point on...they really need the help.
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Brian L
Nomad
Posts: 250
Registered: 6-21-2010
Location: Alpine, CA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by ElFaro
BajaGeoff...my apologies...I thought I heard the guy say $378 collected in the video...but $3400 / 100 riders is $34/ea...at least it helped them for
a couple of weeks or so. It would be nice if the riders could give that each month from that point on...they really need the help.
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So now your posting has gone from complaining about racers to saying $3400 isn't enough?
Brian
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BajaGeoff
Super Nomad
Posts: 1727
Registered: 1-11-2006
Location: San Diego and Campo Lopez
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Mood: Heading To Baja!!!
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Well....let's hope that things improve going into the new year. I know the Beach Bash raised well over 5K the year prior.
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ElFaro
Nomad
Posts: 231
Registered: 9-16-2007
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Well Blane...what do you think it costs (per month) to run an orphange? A one time contribution only goes so far.
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Brian L
Nomad
Posts: 250
Registered: 6-21-2010
Location: Alpine, CA
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I'm sure it does, but it almost sounds like you are saying don't bother giving...
Brian
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David K
Honored Nomad
Posts: 64852
Registered: 8-30-2002
Location: San Diego County
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Mood: Have Baja Fever
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What do you do to 'help' Baja, ElFaro?
Host any web sites?
Promote Baja businesses?
Provide travel information?
Travel yourself and stay at various places in Baja?
Or, do you just like to come to this (the #1) Baja forum and complain and spin answers to get the result you seek???
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PT9Baja
Newbie
Posts: 5
Registered: 10-24-2010
Location: on the road
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The driver involved in the accident after admitting to his terrible mistake has taken responcibility and is doing the right thing for the injured
party and his family. The off road racing community has had an ongoing discussion on Race Dezert.com since it happened. Its in the desert racing forum
under the title Mayhem RG alluded to. Its a long thread but worth reading if you want to broaden you perspective . You keep ignoring the fact that
off road is a Mexican sport with many Mexican races , Mexican racers and support industry and Mexican fans . Its a passion for many Mexicans. There as
likely to kick it out of Baja as they are of closing Mex 1 the next time someone gets killed on the road.
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TMW
Select Nomad
Posts: 10659
Registered: 9-1-2003
Location: Bakersfield, CA
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I don't think anything is going to show Elfaro that off road racing is overall a plus for Baja. He has a closed mind and thats it. As they say "it is
what it is". I think Bajalou says it best,["Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference"].
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DianaT
Select Nomad
Posts: 10020
Registered: 12-17-2004
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| Quote: | Originally posted by TW
I don't think anything is going to show Elfaro that off road racing is overall a plus for Baja. He has a closed mind and thats it. As they say "it is
what it is". I think Bajalou says it best,["Never argue with an idiot. People watching may not be able to tell the difference"].
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Gees, just because he disagrees about off-road racing the name calling starts?
[Edited on 12-30-2010 by DianaT]
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