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mike odell
Nomad
Posts: 267
Registered: 12-17-2002
Location: La Ribera BCS
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Skeets,
Is this really you? Lucid and crainial ,with spelling ,or is this your alter ego?
I like ya better a bunch when ya ramble!!
Grab yourself a double twoeyed tequila and report back.
latrinidadrvranchrestaurant.com
Everybody knows Murphy\'s Law.
Martinez Law; Murphy was a damn optimist!
Quote by: Jimmy Smith
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mike odell
Nomad
Posts: 267
Registered: 12-17-2002
Location: La Ribera BCS
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Pescador,
My simplistic point of view is: Most Everthing I really like to do, is now virtualy
not legal or restricted in the USA! I'll stay here in South Baja, thank you very much,
until when and if it gets better in the land of the Free and the Brave.
latrinidadrvranchrestaurant.com
Everybody knows Murphy\'s Law.
Martinez Law; Murphy was a damn optimist!
Quote by: Jimmy Smith
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19920
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Well, the great debate continues between those who see the world through "liberal eyeglasses" and those who see the world with "conservative eyeware",
but we are not much closer to the matter than ever. One question keeps jumping up and deserves at least a careful answer. The United States was, at
one time, the standard of the entire world, average income was higher than anywhere else, the standard of living was the centerpiece by which all
other civilizations were compared, we did more to help and assist other countries than anyone else in the world, and were the modicum of invention and
development. That has gone downhill so rapidly that even those who are not too aware have to admit that things are deteriorating at a rapid pace.
Until we quit trying to blame the other side of the fence and quit the stupid division of who is right and take a serious look at what went wrong,
we never have even a glimmer of a chance to correct the crash course we seem to be on.
I know that Skeet misses the boat occasionaly, especially about the fish populations but he may have hit the nail on the head with this one. I
chose to retire in Mexico for pretty much the same reason as Skeeter is talking about. I am tired of living in a "Politically Correct" world where
they think it is OK to tax me into oblivion with Income tax, gasoline tax, sales tax, employement tax, Social Security tax, Estate tax, etc., and then
when they find out they are not taking in enough money, they just happen to raise traffic tickets and the like 10 times above what they were just one
year ago. I am tired of having to send my grandkids to schools that are going downhill in terms of academic achievement but want more money every
year to operate. I am totally tired of government intruding into every little facet of my life when they were not invited or welcomed.
So, with all the little facets that make Mexico a different environment like inneficiency and corruption, it is still a step back to a little
simpler time in the world where I can be concerned with the really major important things each day, like where are the fish biting today and what do
they want to eat. |
you hate taxes, but you scream bloody murder is someone tries to take away your SS, medicare, federally funded transportation system, etc.
if you are so righteous then tell us how you have declined medicare!
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DENNIS
Platinum Nomad
Posts: 29510
Registered: 9-2-2006
Location: Punta Banda
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
you hate taxes, but you scream bloody murder is someone tries to take away your SS, medicare, federally funded transportation system, etc.
if you are so righteous then tell us how you have declined medicare! |
We paid dearly for these things throughout our work life and it's unreasonable for us not to get what we paid for.
Had the brain-dead governments not bought bombs and supported illegals with our fund, there wouldn't be a problem today.
SS wasn't supposed to be a retirement program anyway, but when it's all you have, it's all you have.
Thank Gawd I have more.
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mike odell
Nomad
Posts: 267
Registered: 12-17-2002
Location: La Ribera BCS
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Well stated senior Dennis, Bravo times a factor of 12.
latrinidadrvranchrestaurant.com
Everybody knows Murphy\'s Law.
Martinez Law; Murphy was a damn optimist!
Quote by: Jimmy Smith
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
The reason is that so many people have defaulted, Jobs in Two Job Homes have been cut to One Job. |
Thank you loads W!
| Quote: | | There is lots of Money that the banks are having trouble lending, |
Because the banks are paying all those record executive bonuses?
| Quote: | | many reasons when you look at some of the States that have Schools going Bankrupt. |
Because most States are cutting funding? Yeeeee ha Tejas!
| Quote: | | Now is the Time to "Hold on to your Funds as much as Possible. Wait it out. |
Uhhhh, I thought you said above, no one is investing! I wonder why with your attitude. Everytime you open your mouth you get trapped in your own
contradictory nonsense.
| Quote: | | The Election Cycle will be involved to some extint. |
Yep, it looks like four more years with the losers being promoted by the opposition party.
| Quote: | | If I had two cars and could get by with One, Now is when I would sell the used car while the Market is up. |
If I had two cars, they both would be hybrids
| Quote: | | Under the leadership of Perry Texas has done well with its Jobs Growth. 4 million People in the past 10 years have moved in. I hope we can keep the
Jobs going. Looks good here so far, |
Well then forget La Pa' we should ALL move to Tejas!
| Quote: | | If you do not have to have a Fancy Home, Large Boat, and a Couple of Cars you can live and Eat real good in Baja Sur. |
Hey what about all that good life in Tejas?
| Quote: | | I am just saying that some of you folks should really look into it. |
You mean Tejas? Nah, too many Skeeterbug types there for me. Loreto and Central Valley of California loss is Tejas gain! I'll just stay in my little hell hole here in San Jose del Cabo thank you. 
[Edited on 6-17-2011 by oxxo]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19920
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
you hate taxes, but you scream bloody murder is someone tries to take away your SS, medicare, federally funded transportation system, etc.
if you are so righteous then tell us how you have declined medicare! |
We paid dearly for these things throughout our work life and it's unreasonable for us not to get what we paid for.
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then quit complaining about taxes to pay for your stinking entitlements! you don't work, so your tax rate is probably pretty low. or do you want to
cut education just to pay for old people to sit around and complain about those damn young people?!
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
Had the brain-dead governments not bought bombs and supported illegals with our fund, there wouldn't be a problem today.
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it was your generation - it was your your government! seems like congress is made up of people your age!
| Quote: | Originally posted by DENNIS
SS wasn't supposed to be a retirement program |
yes, it was. yes, it is a retirement program. if it is not a retirement program what is it? a vacation savings fund?
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mtgoat666
| Quote: | Originally posted by Pescador
Well, the great debate continues between those who see the world through "liberal eyeglasses" and those who see the world with "conservative eyeware",
but we are not much closer to the matter than ever. One question keeps jumping up and deserves at least a careful answer. The United States was, at
one time, the standard of the entire world, average income was higher than anywhere else, the standard of living was the centerpiece by which all
other civilizations were compared, we did more to help and assist other countries than anyone else in the world, and were the modicum of invention and
development. That has gone downhill so rapidly that even those who are not too aware have to admit that things are deteriorating at a rapid pace.
Until we quit trying to blame the other side of the fence and quit the stupid division of who is right and take a serious look at what went wrong,
we never have even a glimmer of a chance to correct the crash course we seem to be on.
I know that Skeet misses the boat occasionaly, especially about the fish populations but he may have hit the nail on the head with this one. I
chose to retire in Mexico for pretty much the same reason as Skeeter is talking about. I am tired of living in a "Politically Correct" world where
they think it is OK to tax me into oblivion with Income tax, gasoline tax, sales tax, employement tax, Social Security tax, Estate tax, etc., and then
when they find out they are not taking in enough money, they just happen to raise traffic tickets and the like 10 times above what they were just one
year ago. I am tired of having to send my grandkids to schools that are going downhill in terms of academic achievement but want more money every
year to operate. I am totally tired of government intruding into every little facet of my life when they were not invited or welcomed.
So, with all the little facets that make Mexico a different environment like inneficiency and corruption, it is still a step back to a little
simpler time in the world where I can be concerned with the really major important things each day, like where are the fish biting today and what do
they want to eat. |
you hate taxes, but you scream bloody murder is someone tries to take away your SS, medicare, federally funded transportation system, etc.
if you are so righteous then tell us how you have declined medicare! |
No righteous indignation here. You are making assumptions which you have no information about at all. I am an insurance agent and have an extensive
background in health insurance and medicare policies. I, in fact, did cancel my medicare insurance this year and am covered with Seguros Popular in
Mexico.
I am totally convinced that the biggest major problem in the US is the out of control debt and what that is doing to the economic stability of the
country so I have made some major life decisions about how I live out my retirement and of what services I partake in. As with all social programs it
becomes a clear issue of what does it cost and how do we go about paying for it.
So, be careful, if you only look at the world through your "liberal lenses" you may miss a whole lot of information.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by Pescador I am totally convinced that the biggest major problem in the US is the out of control debt and what that is
doing to the economic stability of the country ..................... So, be careful, if you only look at the world through your "liberal lenses" you
may miss a whole lot of information. |
Well, which Presidential Administration saw the biggest increase in the National Debt - both in gross dollars and percentage (Hint it is not Obama).
So you also have to be careful looking at the world through your "conservative lenses."
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Pescador
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 3587
Registered: 10-17-2002
Location: Baja California Sur
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Here are the exact figures:
The numbers below do NOT reflect the actual National Debt. Instead, they reflect the amount of the INCREASE in the National Debt during each
presidential term.
> Ronald Reagan’s First Term – $656 billion increase
> Ronald Reagan’s Second Term – $1.036 trillion increase
> George H.W. Bush’s Term – $1.587 trillion increase
> Bill Clinton’s First Term – $1.122 trillion increase
> Bill Clinton’s Second Term – $418 billion increase
> George W. Bush’s First Term – $1.885 trillion increase
> George W. Bush’s Second Term – $3.014 trillion increase
> Barack Obama’s First “Year” – $1.573 trillion increase
To summarize, the National Debt increased by huge amounts under each of these presidents. The largest increase for a complete term occured during
George W. Bush’s second term. The largest increse during a single year occurred during Barack Obama’s first year.
__________________________________________________________
But, again, it is not a conservative vs. a liberal view nor is it a Democrat vs. Republican view as OXXO seems to imply. Both parties are run away
and as long as they can keep everyone arguing over liberal vs. conservative, no one really sees the bigger problem.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by Pescador So, be careful, if you only look at the world through your "liberal lenses" you may miss a whole lot of
information. |
| Quote: | | Originally posted by PescadorBut, again, it is not a conservative vs. a liberal view nor is it a Democrat vs. Republican view as OXXO seems
to imply. |
Au contraire, Sr. Pescador, it is Sr. Pescador who is trying to make it a conservative vs. liberal view.
Obama's first term is not complete, so the final story has not been told on him. At this point it is W who has done most as a President to run the
USA to the point of bankruptcy.
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David K
Why stop at just one year of Obama, when two is so very, very much grander a number?? |
If you liked his first two years, you are going to love 6 more! I wonder which buffoon the Teapublicans will sacrifice in 2012?
| Quote: | | Also consider in Bush's term we were attacked and went to war, not cheap.... |
Yep, that's right and W didn't plan for anyway to pay for it except put it on the National credit card. It is now time to pay that credit card debt.
We were not attacked by Iraq. We were attacked by terrorists from various Middle Eastern countries (not one of which was an Iraqi citizen). The
leader of the terrorists was OBL, a Saudi Arabian. Why didn't we attack Saudi Arabia then?
And where exactly are those "weapons of mass destruction" we went after in Iraq?
| Quote: | | yet after a brief pause after the attack, America rebounded and continued to grow and produce more jobs. |
You mean the "housing bubble" right? 
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
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Economically speaking, a look at the big picture is truly warranted here.
The problem, as I see it is that the working class (at least the bottom 95% in the USA) has seen their income and wealth shrink since the beginning of
the 80's. For the last 20 years, GDP has grown by an average of 1/2 trillion each year, but the wealth of the working class has shrunk. Where did the
wealth go? Answer: to the top only. In the final analysis, the problem is that there is a lopsided inequitable concentration of wealth and income at
the top. Our economy has been skewed and biased in particular over the last 30 years to favor the few at the top while the working class gets poorer
and poorer. This is not healthy for people and it is not healthy for the country's economy and is a factor that is leading to the erosion of our
world wide standing.
Just before the depression in the 30's, the top 1% owned 40% of the nation's wealth, then there was a bubble, then the crash. After the New Deal
fixes and WWII, our country went into a golden period of prosperity. That prosperity and economic benefit was more evenly spread to the working class
which lead to a very healthy country. This is reflected in the lowering of the % of wealth at the top. For instance, at about the 1950's, the top 1%
had closer to 20% of the nation's wealth. Then came the beginning of the real decline in the 80's and the income and wealth started retracing back to
more disparity between the rich and the poor and the fleecing of the middle class and the poor. It culminated in the latest economical debaucle in
2007/8, where the top 1% again had reached the ownership of nearly 40% of the nation's wealth, a bubble, then a crash.
The economic problem currently is that there isn't enough money in the hands of the middle class and poor to provide enough economic demand for goods
and services that they need. People can't afford health healthcare, can't afford gasoline, can't afford education for themselves or their children,
and the large majority of the middle class and certainly the poor can't afford necessities, yet the top 1% and the top 10% are awash in excess wealth
and the country and the world is in a massive recession... go figure. It's the lopsidedness that is killing the country. Businesses are not
investing because there isn't enough demand for creation of more product and services. Have you noticed the empty retail spaces in strip centers and
shopping malls and businesses in main streets? These businesses went out of business because their sales went down. Their sales went down because
the vast majority of Americans don't have money to spend to provide sustaining of businesses, let alone new businesses. Right now, we are only at 70%
of our production capacity as there isn't enough demand to justify producing at 100% capacity, let alone new production.
The top 1% owns 37% of the nation's wealth, the top 10% own 71% of the nation's wealth, the top 15% owns 85% of the nation's wealth. The bottom 85%
owns 15% of the wealth, the bottom 60% only has 4% of the nation's wealth, the bottom 40% own less than 1/4 of 1% of the nation's wealth. That is not
healthy for this country. From one perspective, this is not a conservative/liberal problem as there are plenty of conservatives and Republicans in
the bottom 85%, in the bottom 60% as well. The USA ranks the second worst in the world with regard to the disparity of income and wealth. Second!
We used to be 3rd, but we recently beat out Mexico!
This is not an indictment of the rich. I am not saying that rich people are bad. Most rich people are very good, most all are very good citizens,
they're intelligent, compassionate, disciplined, have a strong good old American work ethic, decent Americans. This is an indictment of the bias in
our current economic and policitical and legal system that has skewed our market economy to inequitably favor the top. And, it only takes a few key
people to do that biasing: certain politicians, certain leaders of industry, certain pundits, certain economists and academics that have been used by
the powerful few (not all of whom are necessarily rich) and a gullible society that drinks the cool aid delivered by these biasing few as this nation
has done and has politically and legally allowed the corruption of the market to cause this detrimental and unhealthy lopsided inequitable
concentration of wealth and income at the top. The stats prove this.
Our market economy has been overtaken by those that persist in a lopsided and unhealthy inequity. We need to fix it, poilitically, eonomically and
legally so that our brand of capitalism and market economy works much better for everyone.
[Edited on 6-17-2011 by MitchMan]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19920
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Economically speaking, a look at the big picture is truly warranted here.
The problem, as I see it is that the working class (at least the bottom 95% in the USA) has seen their income and wealth shrink since the beginning of
the 80's. For the last 20 years, GDP has grown by an average of 1/2 trillion each year, but the wealth of the working class has shrunk. Where did the
wealth go? Answer: to the top only. In the final analysis, the problem is that there is a lopsided inequitable concentration of wealth and income at
the top. Our economy has been skewed and biased in particular over the last 30 years to favor the few at the top while the working class gets poorer
and poorer. This is not healthy for people and it is not healthy for the country's economy and is a factor that is leading to the erosion of our
world wide standing.
Just before the depression in the 30's, the top 1% owned 40% of the nation's wealth, then there was a bubble, then the crash. After the New Deal
fixes and WWII, our country went into a golden period of prosperity. That prosperity and economic benefit was more evenly spread to the working class
which lead to a very healthy country. This is reflected in the lowering of the % of wealth at the top. For instance, at about the 1950's, the top 1%
had closer to 20% of the nation's wealth. Then came the beginning of the real decline in the 80's and the income and wealth started retracing back to
more disparity between the rich and the poor and the fleecing of the middle class and the poor. It culminated in the latest economical debaucle in
2007/8, where the top 1% again had reached the ownership of nearly 40% of the nation's wealth, a bubble, then a crash.
The economic problem currently is that there isn't enough money in the hands of the middle class and poor to provide enough economic demand for goods
and services that they need. People can't afford health healthcare, can't afford gasoline, can't afford education for themselves or their children,
and the large majority of the middle class and certainly the poor can't afford necessities, yet the top 1% and the top 10% are awash in excess wealth
and the country and the world is in a massive recession... go figure. It's the lopsidedness that is killing the country. Businesses are not
investing because there isn't enough demand for creation of more product and services. Have you noticed the empty retail spaces in strip centers and
shopping malls and businesses in main streets? These businesses went out of business because their sales went down.
The top 1% owns 37% of the nation's wealth, the top 10% own 71% of the nation's wealth, the top 15% owns 85% of the nation's wealth. The bottom 85%
owns 15% of the wealth, the bottom 60% only has 4% of the nation's wealth, the bottom 40% own less than 1/4 of 1% of the nation's wealth. That is not
healthy for this country. From one perspective, this is not a conservative/liberal problem as there are plenty of conservatives and Republicans in
the bottom 85%, in the bottom 60% as well. The USA ranks the second worst in the world with regard to the disparity of income and wealth. Second!
We used to be 3rd, but we recently beat out Mexico!
This is not an indictment of the rich. I am not saying that rich people are bad. Most rich people are very good, most all are very good citizens,
they're intelligent, compassionate, disciplined, have a strong good old American work ethic, decent Americans. This is an indictment of the bias in
our current economic and policitical and legal system that has skewed our market economy to inequitably favor the top. And, it only takes a few
people to do that biasing: certain politicians, certain leaders of industry, certain pundits, certain economists and academics that have been used by
the powerful few (not all of whom are necessarily rich) and a gullible society and drinks the cool aid as this nation has done and has politically and
legally allowed the corruption of the market to cause this detrimental and unhealthy lopsided inequitable concentration of wealth and income at the
top. The stats prove this.
Our market economy has been overtaken by those that persist in inequity. We need to fix it, poilitically, eonomically and legally so that our brand
of capitalism and market economy works much better for everyone. That is not case today.
[Edited on 6-17-2011 by MitchMan] |
unbalanced distribution of $$ will grow until one day the straw breaks the camels back and revolution will tear all asunder.
no one said that USA standard of living is guaranteed to citizens. perhaps USA hay days have passed, and we are now on downward slide, destined to be
faided empire like britain.
if our hay days are truly a thing of the past, then we would be smart to remake ourselves in socialist image of denmark or sweden, and shift
military/police burden to china. perhaps we should all enjoy life of socialism with high standard of living and long vacations, and let chinese do
the dirty work for the next few decades.
if you truly support our troops, you would support china taking over as world superpower!!!!!!!!!
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MitchMan
Super Nomad
Posts: 1856
Registered: 3-9-2009
Member Is Offline
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The unbalances in our economy do not have to be. It is up the the "wising up" of the American people about the real situation at hand and look at the
big picture, then vote for the better politicians and for better laws, and better inforcement of the good laws and retraction of the damaging laws. I
believe that a healthy, informed voting public and a proper market economy can permit great things for this county's people. Right now, our economy
is working against our country. China and India and other emerging countries are controlling healthcare costs, investing in education and
infrastructure to make them even healthier and stronger for the future. We are doing the opposite.
[Edited on 6-17-2011 by MitchMan]
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19920
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
China and India and other emerging countries are controlling healthcare costs, investing in education and infrastructure to make them even healthier
and stronger for the future. |
have you been to china and india? tell me about that great health care!!!
they "control" health care costs by not providing adequate health care to the majority of the population!!!!
[Edited on 6-17-2011 by mtgoat666]
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Skeet/Loreto
Ultra Nomad
Posts: 4709
Registered: 9-2-2003
Member Is Offline
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Mitchman :You are right except there is something that needs to occur First.
We as a Nation of Free People have to Rebuild our Character, Our Morals, our Respectblity.
We have to teach our Children that they are not to Blame others for their own Shortcomings;
This was the way My Generation lived and had been Taught. That is why we grew into the Greatest Nation in the World.
Now our Society has changed to the "BAD" with DOPE, Lack of Respect. People who prefer to Cheat, Lie, and Steal
People who have to have a GPS to get to the Cornerstore!!
We must as a People Go Foward to being Better People, Controlling our Desires and Keeping our Passions within Due Bounds.
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19920
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
being Better People, Controlling our Desires and Keeping our Passions within Due Bounds. |
skeet:
what are proper limits for desire? what are due bounds for passion?
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mtgoat666
Select Nomad
Posts: 19920
Registered: 9-16-2006
Location: San Diego
Member Is Offline
Mood: Hot n spicy
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Skeet/Loreto
People who prefer to Cheat, Lie, and Steal
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skeet:
biggest recent example of that came from texas: ENRON
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oxxo
Banned
Posts: 2347
Registered: 5-17-2006
Location: Wherever I am, I'm there
Member Is Offline
Mood: If I was feeling any better, I'd be twins!
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| Quote: | Originally posted by MitchMan
Economically speaking, a look at the big picture is truly warranted here. |
Mitch, congratulations on a nice piece of writing. You certainly highlighted one of the major problems in our society without getting into the
conservative/liberal argument.
Well done, amigo.
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